Help me understand this

[yonah_mishael]

When you become surnamed there will be two of you but one of you must die, (that your "better half" may live). You may even be commanded to write it all down when you are ended. And if so for all we know you might even have been surnamed Moses II at that time, (Joshua) or Ezra, Josiah, or Shaphan, (that is if you overcome in your appointed time and receive the white stone as opposed to the black stone of strong delusion and the blackness of darkness forever). And if so I want a copy of the book!

Are you assigned medications to control this type of thing?

 

[mercy1061]

What would strengthen the point that Josiah (or his scribe, Shaphan) and not Joshua wrote the Torah? Archaeology? Terminological anachronism? Conceptual contingency? I cannot imagine either Moses or Joshua writing the Torah. Both claims seem far off the mark.

Enlighten me, who wrote genesis, exodus, levitucus, numbers and deuteronomy? It is widely accepted among JEWS that Moses wrote those five books, you follow Judaism? I wish not get into a debate who wrote torah, it is such a waste of time and off topic. I was discussing the law being enforced 430 years later, I choose not argue with you over the authenticity of the scriptures, as the rules dictate there are no contradictions in the scriptures . If you want to be contentious just review the forum rules.

 

[mercy1061]

If that is what you understood from the Zechariah passage that was quoted then I fear you do not even understand what the true argument concerns. Yeshua is the servant of Elohim in that passage and likewise the "Witness Stone" which "heard all the words" of Joshua 24, (which Stone has the seven eyes which are seven lamps which are the seven Spirits of Elohim because the Father gave unto him the Spirit without measure). Yeshua is thus likewise "the man whose name is the Branch" of Zechariah, the Tzemach Tzedek Branch of Righteousness, who likewise builds the Temple of YHWH. You can also read of him in Yeshayah 45.



When you become surnamed there will be two of you but one of you must die, (that your "better half" may live). You may even be commanded to write it all down when you are ended. And if so for all we know you might even have been surnamed Moses II at that time, (Joshua) or Ezra, Josiah, or Shaphan, (that is if you overcome in your appointed time and receive the white stone as opposed to the black stone of strong delusion and the blackness of darkness forever). And if so I want a copy of the book!

I was not discussing Zechariah.

 

[daq]

Are you assigned medications to control this type of thing?

No meds, no drugs, no alcohol, no beer, not even wine. Perhaps that is your flesh-man Esau talking. See what I mean? He is going to need to be removed ya know, (he is like a twin vessel from the selfsame lump of clay according to Paul who wrote according to the Spirit). As Miykaiah son of Yimlah said to Zedekiah son of Chenaanah who fashioned two horns of iron for the kings of Yisrael and Yhudah when he went near to Miykaiah and smote him on the cheek, saying, "Which way went the Spirit of YHWH from me to speak unto thee?" And Miykaiah said to Zedekiah the baal of the two horns: "Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt chamber in chamber to hide thyself!"

 

[yonah_mishael]

Enlighten me, who wrote genesis, exodus, levitucus, numbers and deuteronomy? It is widely accepted among JEWS that Moses wrote those five books, you follow Judaism? I wish not get into a debate who wrote torah, it is such a waste of time and off topic. I was discussing the law being enforced 430 years later, I choose not argue with you over the authenticity of the scriptures, as the rules dictate there are no contradictions in the scriptures . If you want to be contentious just review the forum rules.

Why not look at my post and then read over what you just wrote me - and only after that, tell me who is writing contentiously.

If you don't mind, you could also call the Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion (HUC-JIR) and speak with the professors there about the authorship of the Torah. What I asked is not in any way contentious. Read one of Israel Finkelstein's books. He's, yes, a Jew who lives in Israel and teaches that the Hebrew University in, wait for it, Jerusalem. Find out who he thinks wove the various sources of the Torah together. The Documentary Hypothesis has been in circulation for well over a hundred years now, so I'm having a hard time understanding how you can suggest that someone who takes that position is contentious. Is it contentious to follow the scholarly majority opinion?

Take a pill and calm down already.

 

[yonah_mishael]

No meds, no drugs, no alcohol, no beer, not even wine. Perhaps that is your flesh-man Esau talking. See what I mean? He is going to need to be removed ya know, (he is like a twin vessel from the selfsame lump of clay according to Paul who wrote according to the Spirit). As Miykaiah son of Yimlah said to Zedekiah son of Chenaanah who fashioned two horns of iron for the kings of Yisrael and Yhudah when he went near to Miykaiah and smote him on the cheek, saying, "Which way went the Spirit of YHWH from me to speak unto thee?" And Miykaiah said to Zedekiah the baal of the two horns: "Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt chamber in chamber to hide thyself!"

My flesh-man Esau? LOL

You make me giggle.

 

[daq]

My flesh-man Esau? LOL

You make me giggle.

Haha, yes, I believe every man has his own twin sa`iyr-shaggy-goat Esau no matter his ethnos or bloodline, (he is sa`iyr-"shaggy", see Genesis 27:11, Daniel 8:21, and perhaps Jeremiah 31:27 is related). That one thinks according to his belly perceiving all things according to the flesh and "the here and now" like Esau who sold his birthright for a bowl of pottage because he was famished. It was not meant as personal toward you but simply is what it is the way I see it and likewise seeing that the Father has concluded all in disobedience that he might have mercy upon all. I keep trying to tell the beastmen over in eschatology that this is what Hosea 13 and Revelation 13 are all about but every time I try they open their mouths of lions and stone me with words and thrust me out of their great mega-city metropolis.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Haha, yes, I believe every man has his own twin sa`iyr-shaggy-goat Esau no matter his ethnos or bloodline, (he is sa`iyr-"shaggy", see Genesis 27:11, Daniel 8:21, and perhaps Jeremiah 31:27 is related). That one thinks according to his belly perceiving all things according to the flesh and "the here and now" like Esau who sold his birthright for a bowl of pottage because he was famished. It was not meant as personal toward you but simply is what it is the way I see it and likewise seeing that the Father has concluded all in disobedience that he might have mercy upon all. I keep trying to tell the beastmen over in eschatology that this is what Hosea 13 and Revelation 13 are all about but every time I try they open their mouths of lions and stone me with words and thrust me out of their great mega-city metropolis.

And it seems to me that every person has his very own twin lavan-white-panties Laban, no matter his race or bloodline. Personally, all this mystical mumbo jumbo has absolutely no meaning for me. I find it odd that we (as humans) develop systems like this to describe psychological occurrences that are completely human. Why not just study psychology and learn how things are properly investigated in the human mind and experience? I have no need for mysticism. It's way outside of what I think is real.

 

[daq]

And it seems to me that every person has his very own twin lavan-white-panties Laban, no matter his race or bloodline. Personally, all this mystical mumbo jumbo has absolutely no meaning for me. I find it odd that we (as humans) develop systems like this to describe psychological occurrences that are completely human. Why not just study psychology and learn how things are properly investigated in the human mind and experience? I have no need for mysticism. It's way outside of what I think is real.

How can you not know that the Scripture is the oldest psychology book ever written?
Am I speaking with Yonah I or Yonah II?

 

[yonah_mishael]

How can you not know that the Scripture is the oldest psychology book ever written?
Am I speaking with Yonah I or Yonah II?

Yonah 5.0, actually.

 

[daq]

Yonah 5.0, actually.

See there is even an answer for that in John 4 and the book of the Revelation:

"The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. Yeshua says unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Yeshua says unto her, You have well said, "I have no husband", for you have had five husbands; and he whom you now have is not your husband: in that you spoke truly. The woman says unto him, Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and you say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Yeshua says unto her; Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you know not: we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

And as for Revelation 17 the five did fall, the one is, but beware the 7.0 Girgashite, (for he is legion and when the host opens the mouth of his well the sun and the air become darkened with thick black smoke, like the smoke of the great furnace of Egypt, and from the smoke come forth the multitude of the locusts of his doctrines every time he opens his bottomless pit). Likewise probably for the same reason Paul writes that when the fulness of the heathen have entered in then shall come forth the Deliverer from Zion, (yea, and in this manner shall all Yisrael be delivered, when the power of the holy people is completely smashed, each in his own appointed times). Think Spirit!

 

[yonah_mishael]

Wow... That simply means nothing to me.

 

[mercy1061]

Why not look at my post and then read over what you just wrote me - and only after that, tell me who is writing contentiously.

If you don't mind, you could also call the Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion (HUC-JIR) and speak with the professors there about the authorship of the Torah. What I asked is not in any way contentious. Read one of Israel Finkelstein's books. He's, yes, a Jew who lives in Israel and teaches that the Hebrew University in, wait for it, Jerusalem. Find out who he thinks wove the various sources of the Torah together. The Documentary Hypothesis has been in circulation for well over a hundred years now, so I'm having a hard time understanding how you can suggest that someone who takes that position is contentious. Is it contentious to follow the scholarly majority opinion?

Take a pill and calm down already.

I did read what you wrote, the torah was published more than thousands of years ago. So this new Israel, who knows little about the ancient tribe they were born from; lived thousands of years ago and eye witnessed someone else write torah based on some new surfaced evidence over a 100 years ago? The torah required there be at least two witnesses. If 1000 years is but a day, how long is a 100 years or about 60 years? New Israel 1948? Please! Has new Israel existed for more than a 100 years? Your professor may have written this material outside of Israel; before he gained his citizenship in the promise land; so I should trust material from a foreignor who speak hebrew more than genesis? The new Israel is really governed by the UN; ancient Israel was governed by no one; read about it in the old testament. Everything Israel does it has to get permission from the UN or US; in fact it was the UN that established new Israel. Who established ancient Israel? I love Israel, but Israel is relatively a new nation; compared to other sovreign nations. What about Egypt? Is Egypt a new nation, did it exist prior to 1948? How long has Egypt been around? Did not the ancient hebrews come out of Egypt? Observe the star of David on the Israeli flag, your newly discovered evidence will have to supercede King David who lived thousands of years ago. Does ancient Egypt support your strange ideologies? I noticed you actually have little to say about the topic, I guess in order for you to "honestly" discuss the topic at hand you would actually have to honor the forum rules; this is a torah observant forum. I count with my fingers (even when using a calculator); my hand has five fingers.

 

[yonah_mishael]

I did read what you wrote, the torah was published more than thousands of years ago. So this new Israel, who knows little about the ancient tribe they were born from; lived thousands of years ago and eye witnessed someone else write torah based on some new surfaced evidence over a 100 years ago? The torah required there be at least two witnesses. If 1000 years is but a day, how long is a 100 years or about 60 years? New Israel 1948? Please! Has new Israel existed for more than a 100 years? Your professor may have written this material outside of Israel; before he gained his citizenship in the promise land; so I should trust material from a foreignor who speak hebrew more than genesis? The new Israel is really governed by the UN; ancient Israel was governed by no one; read about it in the old testament. Everything Israel does it has to get permission from the UN or US; in fact it was the UN that established new Israel. Who established ancient Israel? I love Israel, but Israel is relatively a new nation; compared to other sovreign nations. What about Egypt? Is Egypt a new nation, did it exist prior to 1948? How long has Egypt been around? Did not the ancient hebrews come out of Egypt? Observe the star of David on the Israeli flag, your newly discovered evidence will have to supercede King David who lived thousands of years ago. Does ancient Egypt support your strange ideologies? I noticed you actually have little to say about the topic, I guess in order for you to "honestly" discuss the topic at hand you would actually have to honor the forum rules; this is a torah observant forum. I count with my fingers (even when using a calculator); my hand has five fingers.

If we have to be eye-witnesses to understand history and archaeology, then we can know nothing about the ancient world. Your premise undermines the entirety of modern science. Good going. May as well live in caves and throw away everything that science has given us! Turn off your computer, trash it and stop being a hypocrite. Either that, or admit that your idea that science is useless is itself completely stupid.

Is it really your opinion that we should take mythology as the basis of our investigation of history? That we should trust every ancient nation's tale about where it came from and what gods delivered it from whatever hardships? Should we also believe that King Arthur pulled Excalibur from the stone?

 

[ContraMundum]

Most Jews I've read and met believe the Documentary Hypothesis and I've even heard a really good argument for it sourced from the books of the Tanach. A lot of Christians believe it too.

The bottom line is that if that hypothesis is proven correct...it would mean nothing to personal faith or have any effect on theology. God does what He wants how He wants. If He led people to redact, collate, combine etc....so what? It's still His hand at work.

 

[mercy1061]

If we have to be eye-witnesses to understand history and archaeology, then we can know nothing about the ancient world. Your premise undermines the entirety of modern science. Good going. May as well live in caves and throw away everything that science has given us! Turn off your computer, trash it and stop being a hypocrite. Either that, or admit that your idea that science is useless is itself completely stupid.

Is it really your opinion that we should take mythology as the basis of our investigation of history? That we should trust every ancient nation's tale about where it came from and what gods delivered it from whatever hardships? Should we also believe that King Arthur pulled Excalibur from the stone?

Did you know that modern science is based on ancient concepts or theories; many of them Egyptian? It is like you are saying, we have a calculator, no need to count with our fingers any more, the calculator counts for me. Do you understand anything I have said? If you use a scientific calculator you still must use your fingers. I never said that science is usesless I use a scientific calculator to make predictions!

Science requires eye witness testimony; the FIVE senses: hear, smell, touch, see, taste.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Did you know that modern science is based on ancient concepts or theories; many of them Egyptian? It is like you are saying, we have a calculator, no need to count with our fingers any more, the calculator counts for me. Do you understand anything I have said? If you use a scientific calculator you still must use your fingers. I never said that science is usesless I use a scientific calculator to make predictions!

Science requires eye witness testimony; the FIVE senses: hear, smell, touch, see, taste.

Yes, the best science relies on observation (that's the word that you're looking, instead of "testimony"). Yet, you would have us discard the observation of the physical world in favor of myths. That's just bad science - and bad advice.

 

[pat34lee]

Yes, the best science relies on observation (that's the word that you're looking, instead of "testimony"). Yet, you would have us discard the observation of the physical world in favor of myths. That's just bad science - and bad advice.

You never have to discard real science for the bible. Some preconceptions can cause distorted results from scientific methods though, no matter what methods are used. For example: if you expect the world to be billions of years old, you will see that in the evidence, even when it isn't there. If you don't expect to see Yahweh's hand in history, you won't.

 

[daq]

Yes, the best science relies on observation (that's the word that you're looking, instead of "testimony"). Yet, you would have us discard the observation of the physical world in favor of myths. That's just bad science - and bad advice.

That's a great word you used, "observation", which specifically means visual-ocular evidence. Yeshua employes it also, according to Luke, to specifically state that the kingdom of God does not come with ocular-visual evidence:

Luke 17:20-21 KJV
20. And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [GSN#3907 parateresis]
21. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Original Strong's Ref. #3907
Romanized parateresis
Pronounced par-at-ay'-ray-sis
from GSN3906; inspection, i.e. ocular evidence:
KJV--obervation.

Could it be that not only modern Christianity but most all of modern man pretty much misunderstands what Yeshua teaches concerning the kingdom of God? This is part of what is meant by "the eyes and the belly of the flesh" seeing all things according to the mind of the flesh. No one is going to see the kingdom of God with his physical eyeballs according to the doctrine of the Master. So going back to the OP question which came up later somewhere along the way in this thread. Paul speaks of physical foods but only those things which are called "food" in the Scripture because he uses broma, (1Cor.8:8, 1Cor.8:13, and 1Tim.4:3 where he explains that he speaks of the creation of God meaning Genesis 1 and what God calls "meat" for food to be consumed by man). One may find what is meant by broma in Genesis 1 and then in the statement made to Noach in Genesis 9 where fish that swarm in "schools" were added to what is "meat" for the belly of man. Paul does not contradict Yeshua because Yeshua speaks of spiritual things. Yeshua clearly tells us that his words are Spirit and they are Life.

 

[yonah_mishael]

:o

The things said in this thread make me sad for the fate of mankind.