Help a new Presbyterian!!!

[Erinwilcox]

But I liked the 30th verse best! But why stop there? You might as well sing until the 133th verse-that way you'll make sure that EVERYBODY has come forward and nobody has been left unconverted!

 

[cygnusx1]

But I liked the 30th verse best! But why stop there? You might as well sing until the 133th verse-that way you'll make sure that EVERYBODY has come forward and nobody has been left unconverted!

I always liked the Anglican version of the song best ......... the Pentecostal version was merely a shadow

 

[A New Dawn]

But I liked the 30th verse best! But why stop there? You might as well sing until the 133th verse-that way you'll make sure that EVERYBODY has come forward and nobody has been left unconverted!

You know, I get a totally different meaning from that hymn. I will have to go back and look at it again.

 

[cygnusx1]

You know, I get a totally different meaning from that hymn. I will have to go back and look at it again.

me too .............. but there we go

 

[HiredGoon]

You know, I get a totally different meaning from that hymn. I will have to go back and look at it again.

Jenda, I don't think it's the lyrics of the song that are being discussed here. Rather, it's about how some churches abuse the song in their alter calls. I've seen some alter calls that seem to go on for hours, because they want to give everone a chance to come on down and get "saved." All the while, the congregation is singing "Just as I am" over and over, and over, and over, and over. Until the pastor decides that everyone who's gonna come on down and get saved has done so. It really can get annoying.

 

[A New Dawn]

Jenda, I don't think it's the lyrics of the song that are being discussed here. Rather, it's about how some churches abuse the song in their alter calls. I've seen some alter calls that seem to go on for hours, because they want to give everone a chance to come on down and get "saved." All the while, the congregation is singing "Just as I am" over and over, and over, and over, and over. Until the pastor decides that everyone who's gonna come on down and get saved has done so. It really can get annoying.

OOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I have never been in a church that does altar calls, so I didn't know that's what it was referring to. Maybe I can be a calvinist after all!

 

[cygnusx1]

Jenda, I don't think it's the lyrics of the song that are being discussed here. Rather, it's about how some churches abuse the song in their alter calls. I've seen some alter calls that seem to go on for hours, because they want to give everone a chance to come on down and get "saved." All the while, the congregation is singing "Just as I am" over and over, and over, and over, and over. Until the pastor decides that everyone who's gonna come on down and get saved has done so. It really can get annoying.

now you come to mention it , the Anglicans just wanted to get on home as soon as the service time was up , and the Pentecostals they didn't care how many times they sang it through , they also had an inferior tune to the Anglican version

 

[A New Dawn]

now you come to mention it , the Anglicans just wanted to get on home as soon as the service time was up , and the Pentecostals they didn't care how many times they sang it through , they also had an inferior tune to the Anglican version

I know two hymns "Just As I Am". This one. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/j/u/justasam.htm

And this one. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/j/u/juaithin.htm

Are either of them the ones you are referring to?

 

[cygnusx1]

I know two hymns "Just As I Am". This one. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/j/u/justasam.htm

And this one. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/j/u/juaithin.htm

Are either of them the ones you are referring to?

I don't recognise the latter hymn , the former sounds a bit like the Pentecostal (geed up version)

this info may help ...

Just as I am, without one plea

Just as I am, without one plea
But that thy blood was shed for me,
And that thou bid'st me come to thee,
O Lamb of God, I come.

​

This hymn was written in 1834 by Miss Charlotte Elliott (1789-1871). She was the grand-daughter of Rev. Henry Venn, one of the Clapham Sect who supported William Wilberforce. In her youth she wrote humorous poems, but following a grave illness in 1821 she lived for her last fifty years as an invalid in Westfield Lodge, Brighton. It has been said that "more than half a century of suffering went into the making of Miss Elliott's hymns". Over two hundred hymns bear her name. This hymn first appeared in leaflet form in 1835, and then in The Invalid's Hymn Book (1841). In Hours of Sorrow Cheered and Comforted (1849) it is prefaced by a quotation from John 6:37.

Her brother Rev. H V Elliott, and other members of her family were invited to a bazaar to raise money to build a college in Brighton for the daughters of poor clergymen, but she was unwell and could not go. Instead she wrote this hymn as a confession of faith in the face of her disability. The opening phrase of each verse draws on words addressed to her twelve years earlier by the evangelist Dr. César Malan of Geneva, with whom she corresponded for forty years. She had claimed to be unworthy to come to Christ, but he told her to "come to Him just as you are". There were originally six verses with a seventh added by her later in the same year, although the original verse two is now omitted. Biblical references include John 1:29 (the last line of every verse), 2 Corinthians 7:5 (verse 2 line 3), Luke 4:18 (verse 3 lines 1-2), Ephesians 2:14 (verse 5 line 2) and Ephesians 3:18 (verse 6 line 2).

Tune - Saffron Walden

Saffron Walden is the best-known of the tunes associated with this hymn. It was written by Arthur Henry Brown (1830-1926), a supporter of the Oxford Movement and a pioneer in the restoration of plainchant and Gregorian music in Anglican worship. It was originally written for another of Elliott's hymns, "O holy Saviour, Friend unseen". This music and "Just as I am" were first associated in the English Hymnal (1906). Brown remained an organist until his death at 95.

http://www.stpetersnottingham.org/hymns/plea.htm

 

[A New Dawn]

What is the Anglican tune?

 

[lmnop9876]

Good Grief!!! I don't know any Roman Catholic who would call himself a Calvinist or any Calvinist who would ever consider calling himself a Roman Catholic. Your ideas of Calvinism are false. I don't know where you got your teaching on Calvinism, but I would suggest that you stop using them because they've got problems. No Calvinist would EVER say that Mary remained a virgin forever (they would combat it), or agree to Transubstantiation (didn't you read the Reformation Day Polka ?). If they did, then they would be branded as heretics.

firstly, I refer to the fact that John Calvin believed in the ever-virginity of Mary. secondly, he didn't believe in transubstantiation. He believed in the mystery of the Lord's Supper as a partaking of Christ's Body and Blood by faith. however, he was closer to the view of Luther than that of Zwingli.

The emblems of this mystery are the bread and wine through which the Lord holds out to us the true communication of His Body and Blood. We are talking of spiritual communion, which is effected by the bond of the Holy Spirit alone, and which in no way requires a presence enclosed in Christ's flesh through the bread or His blood through the wine. For although Christ, exalted in Heaven, has left behind this earthly abode in which we are still pilgrims, yet no distance can dissolve His power by which He feeds His people with Himself. Although they are very far from Him, by this power He grants them to enjoy a communion with Himself which is nonetheless very close.

From: Truth For all Time: A brief outline of the Christian faith. By John Calvin.
and on "no Calvinist would ever say that Mary remained a virgin forever (they would combat it)" I have to disagree with you there.

 

[Erinwilcox]

Yeah, but what we call Calvinists today do NOT espouse those views. So, when you claim that Calvinists believe them, that is false. We, as Calvinists, espouse only those teachings of Calvin as were biblical. So, in other words, John Calvin wasn't exactly what we today know as Calvinists.

 

[lmnop9876]

Yeah, but what we call Calvinists today do NOT espouse those views. So, when you claim that Calvinists believe them, that is false. We, as Calvinists, espouse only those teachings of Calvin as were biblical. So, in other words, John Calvin wasn't exactly what we today know as Calvinists.

ok. so calvinism is merely the five points is it? it is not the whole system of theology taught by this man? btw, i happen to think his idea of the Lord's Supper was pretty much the right one.

 

[Jon_]

ok. so calvinism is merely the five points is it?

Pretty much. "Calvinism" is short-hand for "Calvinistic soteriology," which is the five points of the TULIP acrostic. This is not to say that Calvin did not make substantial contributions to the overall system of Reformed Theology, but that is not the system that bears his name.

it is not the whole system of theology taught by this man?

No. Calvinism refers to Reformed soteriology. Reformed Theology is the proper name for "Presbyterianism" (the Westminster Confession and Catechisms) or "Reformed Church" (the three forms of unity—Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of Dordrecht). These two formulations came about 100 years after Calvin and they constitute the tested and refined theology of the Reformation. Calvin's theology is strongly reflected in both of these. Incidentally, the only real differences between the two were Presbyterianism was the British form of Reformed Christianity and the Reformed Church was the continental version of the same.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[lmnop9876]

Pretty much. "Calvinism" is short-hand for "Calvinistic soteriology," which is the five points of the TULIP acrostic. This is not to say that Calvin did not make substantial contributions to the overall system of Reformed Theology, but that is not the system that bears his name.

thank-you.

No. Calvinism refers to Reformed soteriology. Reformed Theology is the proper name for "Presbyterianism" (the Westminster Confession and Catechisms) or "Reformed Church" (the three forms of unity—Belgic Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Canons of Dordrecht). These two formulations came about 100 years after Calvin and they constitute the tested and refined theology of the Reformation. Calvin's theology is strongly reflected in both of these. Incidentally, the only real differences between the two were Presbyterianism was the British form of Reformed Christianity and the Reformed Church was the continental version of the same.

thank-you again. i think i already knew that.

 

[Erinwilcox]

ok. so calvinism is merely the five points is it? it is not the whole system of theology taught by this man? btw, i happen to think his idea of the Lord's Supper was pretty much the right one.

Wouldn't that mean that you believe in transubstantiation? I haven't heard of any Protestants who believe that. Correct me if I am wrong (I'm not talking about you, I want an entire denomination), but I guess that I always thought that only Roman Catholics believed in that. . .

 

[Jon_]

Wouldn't that mean that you believe in transubstantiation?

Calvin denied the Romish doctrine of transubstantiation.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Do you know the difference between a Presbyterian and a Baptist?






A Presbyterian will say hello to you in the liquor store.

I suppose that you're right. . .in some ways. You wouldn't find me waving to you in a liquor store. Of course, I am underage . But even still, my family has a history of alcoholics. Therefore, I just choose not to drink so as not to risk anything (I'm told that it runs in the family). But I'm not opposed to drinking, so long as it's in moderation. But you sound proud of it! The difference, I mean.

Erin,

It was a joke.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Do you know the difference between a Presbyterian and a Baptist?

A Presbyterian will say hello to you in the liquor store.

I beg to differ - I'm a Baptist and I always say hello to people I know in the liquor store. Also in the refrigerated beer section of the grocery store. I especially like talking to the wine expert at Anderson's.

Of course, I say hello to people I don't know too so maybe I'm not a good example.

Yeah, but you are Reformed Baptist. My bad, I should have qualified that as "Southern Baptist".

 

[Erinwilcox]

Yes, always make the distinction between a Reformed Baptist and a Baptist. My friends at work always say, "Oh, you're a Baptist, aren't you, Erin?" I always respond hastily, "No! I'm a Reformed Baptist. There's a big difference, you know!"