Hellfire/Divine Justice

[international harvester]

So...adam ate and apple, and the most just punishment god could think of was to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children? I'm glad our current rulers are not just.

ok... it wasnt just ne apple it was called the forrbidden fruit... and just the point that God gave adam one rule "dont eat the apple" and he did...i mean how stupid is that.... it was a sin..so he was punished

 

[international harvester]

A God who condones eternal suffering of innocent souls (and yes, humans are MUCH more innocent than fundamentalist Christians portray them as) is not just. Especially if he only loves Christians.

one.. hell was never ment for humans it was ment for satan and his angels and so being suffering and torture was never ment for humans.... two.. God is love to everyone no matter what youve done or are doing... he dosnt just love christians, hel loves athiest, satinist, and ne were in between... lyle plz stop making an idiot out of your self and just try reading your bible .... cuz you will gain much knoledge...ne ways... and 3.. humans are more innocent then funamentilist christians portay them....welll in the eyes of god and in the eyes of whoever is juding well thats up to them... free will rocks..

 

[professor frink]

ok... it wasnt just ne apple it was called the forrbidden fruit... and just the point that God gave adam one rule "dont eat the apple" and he did...i mean how stupid is that.... it was a sin..so he was punished

I will rephrase my point. Is the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children a just punishment for eating forbidden fruit? Or for that matter, just punishment for anything?

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

There is evidence for the existence of trucks. They are not something that requires belief.

And there is plenty of evidence for God.

Love-n-Blessings
dee

 

[professor frink]

And there is plenty of evidence for God.

Love-n-Blessings
dee

Do you agree that there is a difference between believing in God and believing in trucks? I can look out my window an see trucks. I cannot look out my window and see God. Many will argue that I am looking at God's creation when I look out my window, but this in itself isn't sufficient evidence. Lets take your example of getting hit by a truck. If I walk down the road, and there are people lying the in the ditch, apparently having been struck with great force, without actually seeing what hit them, or hearing for an eyewitness what hit them, I can draw no meaningful conclusion. If I have never actually seen a truck, I probably won't suspect they were hit by trucks. Maybe the were struck by giant walking oak trees...not so unplausible. I haven't ever seen an oak tree walk, but I have seen plenty of oak trees.

 

[Warrior of Heaven]

Do you agree that there is a difference between believing in God and believing in trucks? I can look out my window an see trucks. I cannot look out my window and see God. Many will argue that I am looking at God's creation when I look out my window, but this in itself isn't sufficient evidence. Lets take your example of getting hit by a truck. If I walk down the road, and there are people lying the in the ditch, apparently having been struck with great force, without actually seeing what hit them, or hearing for an eyewitness what hit them, I can draw no meaningful conclusion. If I have never actually seen a truck, I probably won't suspect they were hit by trucks. Maybe the were struck by giant walking oak trees...not so unplausible. I haven't ever seen an oak tree walk, but I have seen plenty of oak trees.

there is more then sufficient evidence that more than proves Gods existince... the blind being able to see, the lame can walk and the deaf can hear.... how can you dispute such a force, such a life of a being so beautiful... you can look upon Gods true face for if you did... ykou would probably be inncinerated...by its holyness.... but i have seen jesus, i have seen an angel, and ive seen a demon...they are all very real beings...so again i ask why do you choose to argue of his existnince...???

 

[Jtccjt]

if you are not a Christian, He is not love towards you.. Yes, He loves you, but he Himself is not love.... But you forget that God is just...

for God so loved the WORLD that he gave... he loves you but is wath does abide on everyone living in rebellion against him.

 

[Jtccjt]

wait wait wait you forgot the wind example.... you cant see wind but only the evidence that it is there

 

[Warrior of Heaven]

hmmmm... correct i think..well the part about the love thing.... if i may ask.." do you belive in God do you belive he exists...???

 

[Jtccjt]

are you asking me warrior? if you are yes i do

 

[Warrior of Heaven]

yea sry...forgot that part..lol... yea..but i cant think of ne reason to doubt his existince... can you.. i mean ...he exists what else is there...

 

[Jtccjt]

im confuzes haha what in the word are you talking about? yes i belive and yes i am saved...? ¿? i have no reason to doubt..

 

[professor frink]

there is more then sufficient evidence that more than proves Gods existince...

God is not provable. Nothing is entirely provable.

the blind being able to see,

Blindness is the inability to see. There have been a few cases where medical doctors have helped people to regain their sight, but that has nothing to do with god. Thats good doctors using science to cure people.

the lame can walk and the deaf can hear....

As above. So called miracle healings have never held up under scientific scrutiny. All that have tried have been shown fraudulent.

how can you dispute such a force, such a life of a being so beautiful...

This sentence doesn't really make any sense so I can't comment on it yet.

you can look upon Gods true face for if you did... ykou would probably be inncinerated...by its holyness....

I assume you mean I can't look upon... in which case, how do you know this? Have you tried? Have others tried? //Edit: What does "incinerated by its holyness mean?

but i have seen jesus, i have seen an angel, and ive seen a demon...they are all very real beings...so again i ask why do you choose to argue of his existnince...???

A friend once claimed to have seen unicorns. People said he was delusional. I don't believe god exists, because despite lots of grandiose claims, when it comes down to it, nobody has ever been able to show me evidence for god that isn't better explained by science.

 

[warispeace]

no it means that satan is a liar and tried to trick adam and eve... no were did i say that God does fear the devil... i said that satan lied by saying that "god is afraid of adam eating the fruit for it might be his down fall..." he lied God dosnt fear satan....

How does the serpent lie or decieve Adam and Eve? God said the tree of knowledge will kill you. The serpent said, no it won't kill you, it will open your eyes to good and evil. They ate the fruit. They didn't die. Their eyes were opened to good and evil. So where's the lie?

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

Blindness is the inability to see. There have been a few cases where medical doctors have helped people to regain their sight, but that has nothing to do with god. Thats good doctors using science to cure people.

As above. So called miracle healings have never held up under scientific scrutiny. All that have tried have been shown fraudulent.

So you don't believe in miricles? I was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer a year ago. Now my cancer is very aggressive (her2+++) I started on chemo immediately, in hopes of shrinking the tumors-one being the size of a grapefruit. During this very aggressive chemo, I did not get sick even once. I have never been in pain during this whole ordeal! I have had MANY people praying for me, my church and many friends. In August I had pet & ct scans, and No Evidence of Disease! I did not have any surgery. No radiation. Just chemo. Did God heal me? YES-I am still alive. The cancer center is using me as a case study...even they are truely amazed!

Love-n-Blessings,
dee

 

[professor frink]

So you don't believe in miricles? I was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer a year ago. Now my cancer is very aggressive (her2+++) I started on chemo immediately, in hopes of shrinking the tumors-one being the size of a grapefruit. During this very aggressive chemo, I did not get sick even once. I have never been in pain during this whole ordeal! I have had MANY people praying for me, my church and many friends. In August I had pet & ct scans, and No Evidence of Disease! I did not have any surgery. No radiation. Just chemo. Did God heal me? YES-I am still alive. The cancer center is using me as a case study...even they are truely amazed!
Love-n-Blessings,
dee

I am sad to hear that you had to go through that, and very happy to hear that you have recovered. I see nothing to suggest that this is a miracle. You had excellent treatment by skilled medical professionals that deserve a lot more credit. It is not entirely uncommon for people to recover as a result of chemotherapy. That is why chemotherapy is such a common treatment.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

Ahhh...but even my Doc & nurses are amazed. My Doc says God did this. My prognosis was very grim, (remember, stage 5 is death) I am still stage 4, Just no signs of the cancer! I was suppose to have surgery 6 mos ago-and don't need it, now.

Love-n-Blessings,
dee

 

[professor frink]

Ahhh...but even my Doc & nurses are amazed. My Doc says God did this. My prognosis was very grim, (remember, stage 5 is death) I am still stage 4, Just no signs of the cancer! I was suppose to have surgery 6 mos ago-and don't need it, now.

Love-n-Blessings,
dee

Its not really my position that it was not a miracle, just I as can't say that there is not a god. I am just saying that its not the only explaination, and personally I find another explaination more compelling. Glad to hear that you are doing well, and I hope that your friends continue to pray for you.

 

[AdJesumPerMariam]

Its not really my position that it was not a miracle, just I as can't say that there is not a god. I am just saying that its not the only explaination, and personally I find another explaination more compelling. Glad to hear that you are doing well, and I hope that your friends continue to pray for you.

Thanx...I am a nurse, and I believe God put docs here to help us, and I can understand where you are coming from, too. I have seen lots of surprised docs & nurses, people that have been written off as dead-then living...and childbirth...such a beautiful thing!

Ok, getting off track...there are miracles...& you will see them, too.

Love-n-Blessings,
dee

 

[Olivetree]

I think of this a lot and totally understand the thoughts of the original poster. I think it is a bit weak to say we choose to go to a lake of fire. It is not that people chose to spend eternity in a lake of lava. It is that if they do not chose to "love God" to"obey God" to "Submit to God" that God prepared a place for the devil and angels and then decided we would go there to if we failed to accept his love. That is not choosing to go to hell. If someone points a gun at my knee and says if I fail to love them that they will shoot me in the knees. If I choose not to love them does not mean I am choosing to be shot in the knees. That is not a choice really. If there were no consequences that would be more of a choice. If it is a choice it is a bad one.

Many times in scripture it states that God said a group of people or country would suffer somehting eternally and then later in the Bible He would show mercy.

One feeling I do have is that maybe our choice is to be with God or not to be with Him. When we die we then eternally are in a place void of God, His love, His grace, His creativity, beauty etc. We can not even imagine such a place.

I am still thinking through all of this and doubt I will ever have a conclusion until a moment after death.