Hell

Almost there said:

Jesus mentioned "hell" a few times. He used the word "Gehenna", which was a real place. And the message to anyone listening at the time was pretty clear - they will be exterminated.

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Are you suggesting annihilationism?

This is not what we have always believed.

ArmyMatt said:

well, yeah, it's an eternal extermination but not annihilation. they are tormented eternally, but not to nothingness

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This is where we disagree, pretty strongly (at least on my part). I think the bible is crystal clear on the matter. The saved go on to life, and the lost, to death. And both of their conditions are eternal.

Believe What the Jewish Apostles Taught -- Why Conditional Immortality Is True and Biblical

Almost there said:

This is where we disagree, pretty strongly (at least on my part). I think the bible is crystal clear on the matter. The saved go on to life, and the lost, to death. And both of their conditions are eternal.

Believe What the Jewish Apostles Taught -- Why Conditional Immortality Is True and Biblical

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death was never equated to annihilation

Hermit76 said:

You're using scripture out of context to strengthen your position. You're actually demonstrating why scripture without the context of Orthodoxy is dangerous.

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I don't think there is enough information in my post for you to infer that from it. If you have some contradictory scripture though, I'm cool with that.

I honestly thought I was just making a statement like, "the sun sets in the west." I had no idea it was controversial.

ArmyMatt said:

death was never equated to annihilation

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Whadayamean, was?

Did the word change meaning at some point? When the word is juxtaposed against the word "life", do you think it means something other than life or death? Seriously?

Almost there said:

Whadayamean, was?

Did the word change meaning at some point? When the word is juxtaposed against the word "life", do you think it means something other than life or death? Seriously?

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yes, death was never seen as annihilation. that is an assumption you are making with no Christian understanding til recent times

Hermit76 said:

The traditions that the Bible speak of are not traditions that are grounded in truth... I think I should point out that you are commenting inside of the Orthodox board. You are welcome to challenge our teachings in St. Justin's thread but not on a regular thread.

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I was just talking about the traditions of man. The all encompassing context of "orthodox" board thing is confusing to me. Do you mean Greek Orthodox, Jewish Orthodox, or some other Orthodox?

I just see orthodox from the dictionary definition, and actually consider my viewpoint orthodox in some circles. But I'll leave you guys to it.

or·tho·dox
ˈôrTHəˌdäks/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.

Delete. I'm bowing out of the Eastern orthodox thread since I have no clue what those people believe about anything.

St. Theophylact seems, in his writings, to disagree with you.

Almost there said:

Where does it say that in the bible?

With that I agree. I like to say that your condition based on your acceptance of God's grace is not "heaven vs Hell". It is about eternal life vs death". It is not about geography. It is about condition - alive or dead.

I don't think that parable is about hell. It's about people not accepting Christ even if he dies and comes back from the dead.

I agree. That is why I find it interesting that when the bible says that the lost will be outside of God's presence, it is the same thing as saying they will not exist.

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<<St. Theophylact seems, I’m his writings, to disagree with you.>>

Been hit with either the fat fingers syndrome or the dratted auto correct again ?

What are you implying, sister!? I’m NOT St. Theophylact !? LOL

Anhelyna said:

<<St. Theophylact seems, I’m his writings, to disagree with you.>>

Been hit with either the fat fingers syndrome or the dratted auto correct again ?

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My fingers are super thin actually. I’m a guitar-player. It’s that blasted scourge of the Earth—-autocorrect!!!

Anhelyna said:

<<St. Theophylact seems, I’m his writings, to disagree with you.>>

Been hit with either the fat fingers syndrome or the dratted auto correct again ?

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Well this thread went the way of its namesake.

Eastern Orthodoxy /Orthodox Christianity (not Jewish) is the collective name under which the early Church that remains, and has spread, is now called. That's not triumphalism btw, it's Church History. Scriptures refer to the Church at Rome, the Church at Jerusalem, the Church at Antioch, and so on. The Church was simply the Church, in one communion, sharing essentially all beliefs and practices (yes I'm oversimplifying some details).

Rome over a few centuries made some changes but mainly over the matter of whether she had supreme authority - led to a division. At that point Rome began Catholicism. The rest of the Church remained and basically has made it a major goal to maintain the faith, where Rome saw development as a good thing. The Protestant reformation was an attempt to reform Rome, and later denominations further reformed the reformers. That is the basic pedigree of Christianity. Orthodoxy has basically had no part of all that, just continuing to exist, maintaining the same faith, often under persecution.


Many Protestants assume that the Orthodox are just another denomination that picked up the same Bible they did, interpreted it differently in some places (depending on which kind of Protestant), and tried to make a cohesive but competing theology, because that's what Protestants do.

But that is not our history. Many of the Churches you read about in Scripture are still there, have never changed, and we are in communion with them.

Our practices and beliefs don't come from Scripture, because they mostly come from actime from before Scripture was written, and certainly before it was canonized. They come from the Apostles. In fact, that's HOW Scripture came to be recognized as Scripture - because it agreed with what the Church believed. Not the other way around. There were as many competing documents circulated that were not accepted, sometimes because the teaching in them was false, sometimes because the authorship was not accepted.

It is impossible for Scripture and Orthodoxy not to agree (unless Orthodoxy has changed, and by reading ancient documents it can be demonstrated that it has not). If you knew Orthodoxy you would see even that there's a joke in there about us ... we do NOT change what we believe and that is steadfastly resisted at all costs.

I think I'll leave it at that.

By all means, we welcome debate in St. Justin's forum, if someone wishes to challenge or debate anything. We do ask to keep TAW proper a peaceful place. This is a strict time of fasting in Orthodoxy as well, so I would ask understanding that we might not be at our most gracious right now.

Peace to all.

Almost there said:

See tag line. That will explain my position on this.

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I have not seen a tag line that says why one can redefine what annihilate means.

Almost there said:

Delete. I'm bowing out of the Eastern orthodox thread since I have no clue what those people believe about anything.

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it's hard to do when you come on here and argue with us with your own personal opinion as dogma

Hermit76 said:

I now fully believe in hell... It has its own url

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It has its own city limits in Michigan.

ArmyMatt said:

God's presence in Scripture is always depicted as fire or light. so the lake of fire is God Himself in the face of the unrepentant sinner.

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I think this, and that the "burning" described is the burning of being separated from God, who we were designed to be attached to. Nothing could possibly be more torturous then being permanently kept from the Glory and light of the Life giving Trinity.