Hell

[wayfaring man]

Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; <---> 2nd Corinthians 1:10

Light / darkness

Sound / Silence

Hot / Cold

Young / Old

Right / Wrong

Blessed / Cursed

We are exposed to extreme opposites all the time...they are obviously here to assist in defining each other and educate us as to the parameters of possibility.

To say there is a wonderful eternity possible, would then (by this standard) indicate that there is also a horrible eternity possible.

And the joy of the former is founded upon the terror of the latter, and vice versa.

That is to say much of the elation of heaven is recognizing how depressing the other option is /would have been.

And much of the torment of everlasting darkness / or fire is understanding how eternally splendid the other possibility is / would have been.

-------------------------------

In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him. <---> Ecclesiastes 7:14

May The Lord Be Pleased to Bless !

P.S. God loves everyone initially.

But if we unrepentantly hurt, abuse, violate, mistreat others.... because of God's love for those victimized, He will at some point turn from loving the perpetrators of iniquity and turn to hating them.

--------------------------------

All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. <---> Hosea 9:15

 

[smithed64]

Clever reply! I can only answer that I believe that God's Word was perfect in the original autographs, but we have copies of copies, and that's not so bad, for the Bible is the best preserved of all documents from antiquity, and by a good margin. OTOH, most of us read said Bible in translation, and therein lies the problem. The mindset of the translator should not affect the choices of words in translating, but it seems to have done so. In case you haven't noticed, I dug into the meanings of the few words from which "Hell" is translated. They are:

sheol

hades

Gehenna

Tartarus.

None of these imply a place of eternal, conscious torment, two of them come from pagan languages, and one of them is used once. That's NOT a firm foundation for the doctrine of Hell. I am not saying God lies, or that the Bible contains lies (except the lies of men and the Devil). I am not after making a new version, for versions already exist which do not contain the word "Hell."

We will not be judged by God and sent to Hell. Part of Damnationism is making things into Hell which are not Hell. Some are sent into the Lake of Fire, and I think this is what you are thinking about, but your KJV tells you that Death and Hell are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire. They are not the same thing, and I think the Damnationists are not rightly dividing the Word of God.

Yeah, I know those words, I put them in here myself except for Tartarus.

Those who are Born Again, your right, we will not be judged by God. But by Christ and the works that we have done since being Born Again.

Your right Death will be thrown into Hell, it's already been defeated by Christ resurrection. It no longer has dominance over us.
Satan and His angels will be cast into Hell.
Hell is a place, you can't throw it into itself.

As for God's word. Your right the originals have no errors.
The only errors that are in the scripture now are very minor indeed. More like copyist errors and bad grammar. But none of those errors take away from God's word in any way.
And the concept of Hell, is very clear.
The concept of God judging sinners, very clear.
Even Christ turning away those who played church who didn't put their trust in Him..will be turned away. And sent to hell.

Why would God not judge us? Or those who have rebelled against Him?
Why wouldn't He punish those who don't repent of their sins and place their trust in Christ.
Again, you say one thing, God don't judge us, but the bible says quite the different.

So, Hitler is in Heaven?
Murders who die and haven't repented, they go to heaven?
Rapist, how bout them?

God is a righteous, love, Holy, and just. And because He loves us, and that He is Good, he must judge.

 

[AngelOf Laodicea]

what about haters?

[[Mal 1:3]] "but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness.”
Also read Psalm5:5-6 Psalm 11:5 Hosea 9:15

God is a hater too. So I actually love God. Therefore I do not hate haters because God is one.

 

[eartheart]

Is there any weight to the 666 being the adonikam "my lord has risen", a tribe out of babylon as being spoken of in revelations?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Yeah, I know those words, I put them in here myself except for Tartarus.

Those who are Born Again, your right, we will not be judged by God. But by Christ and the works that we have done since being Born Again.

Your right Death will be thrown into Hell, it's already been defeated by Christ resurrection. It no longer has dominance over us.
Satan and His angels will be cast into Hell.
Hell is a place, you can't throw it into itself.

As for God's word. Your right the originals have no errors.
The only errors that are in the scripture now are very minor indeed. More like copyist errors and bad grammar. But none of those errors take away from God's word in any way.
And the concept of Hell, is very clear.
The concept of God judging sinners, very clear.
Even Christ turning away those who played church who didn't put their trust in Him..will be turned away. And sent to hell.

Why would God not judge us? Or those who have rebelled against Him?
Why wouldn't He punish those who don't repent of their sins and place their trust in Christ.
Again, you say one thing, God don't judge us, but the bible says quite the different.

So, Hitler is in Heaven?
Murders who die and haven't repented, they go to heaven?
Rapist, how bout them?

God is a righteous, love, Holy, and just. And because He loves us, and that He is Good, he must judge.

God judges and God punishes, but for a time and for a purpose. The time period is "of the age" not forever, and the purpose is to burn up, not the sinner, but the sinner's dross, his chaff, his wood, hay and stubble. I'm not good at remembering chapter and verse, but I am good at remembering concepts, and I know God said that He wounds and He heals, kills and makes alive, but nowhere does He say that He "sends to Hell." On the contrary, when God was complaining of the Israelite practice of burning their children to some pagan entity I don't care to name or call a god, He told them that such a thing had never entered His Mind. Hear that?! People believe that God sends sinners and the wicked to Hell, but God states that He never even thought of such a thing!

If you believe in God, and that He tells it to you straight, you must stop and think that one over...

 

[Galatea]

Please show me the scripture where it says this?

II Peter 3:9 The third chapter talks about the second coming of the Lord, and what God desires " The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."

This is after Peter relays all the sins that separate us from God. After this whole list of damnable sins and wretchedness, after this- we get this verse- He is not willing that ANY should perish. All these sinners: adulterers, covetous, scoffers, liars, etc. etc.

 

[דוד חֵן (David)]

God judges and God punishes, but for a time and for a purpose. The time period is "of the age" not forever, and the purpose is to burn up, not the sinner, but the sinner's dross, his chaff, his wood, hay and stubble. I'm not good at remembering chapter and verse, but I am good at remembering concepts, and I know God said that He wounds and He heals, kills and makes alive, but nowhere does He say that He "sends to Hell." On the contrary, when God was complaining of the Israelite practice of burning their children to some pagan entity I don't care to name or call a god, He told them that such a thing had never entered His Mind. Hear that?! People believe that God sends sinners and the wicked to Hell, but God states that He never even thought of such a thing!

If you believe in God, and that He tells it to you straight, you must stop and think that one over...

Much talk but no substance. Considering backing up your opinions with scripture.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

 

[Galatea]

The obvious question: how can one ever be separate from He Who is everywhere present and filling all things?

The only people who can be separate from God are the people who deny Christ as Savior.

 

[Galatea]

Much talk but no substance. Considering backing up your opinions with scripture.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

When you take a laundry list of sins, every single person that ever lived will find themselves somewhere in that list (except Christ). By this alone, you would be condemning everyone to Hell. People don't go to Hell for sin. They only go for unbelief. Romans 4, the great justification chapter 4:7-8 "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

 

[Galatea]

Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; <---> 2nd Corinthians 1:10

Light / darkness

Sound / Silence

Hot / Cold

Young / Old

Right / Wrong

Blessed / Cursed

We are exposed to extreme opposites all the time...they are obviously here to assist in defining each other and educate us as to the parameters of possibility.

To say there is a wonderful eternity possible, would then (by this standard) indicate that there is also a horrible eternity possible.

And the joy of the former is founded upon the terror of the latter, and vice versa.

That is to say much of the elation of heaven is recognizing how depressing the other option is /would have been.

And much of the torment of everlasting darkness / or fire is understanding how eternally splendid the other possibility is / would have been.

-------------------------------

In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider: God also hath set the one over against the other, to the end that man should find nothing after him. <---> Ecclesiastes 7:14

May The Lord Be Pleased to Bless !

P.S. God loves everyone initially.

But if we unrepentantly hurt, abuse, violate, mistreat others.... because of God's love for those victimized, He will at some point turn from loving the perpetrators of iniquity and turn to hating them.

--------------------------------

All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. <---> Hosea 9:15

I agree with everything you wrote, up to a point. God is love and not hate. He is unwilling that any should perish. It doesn't delight God for people to go to Hell, I think it hurts Him more than we could ever possibly know. He died for the sins of the WORLD, not for only the people who believe.

 

[Galatea]

[[Mal 1:3]] "but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness.”
Also read Psalm5:5-6 Psalm 11:5 Hosea 9:15

God is a hater too. So I actually love God. Therefore I do not hate haters because God is one.

These are all Old Testament verses and completely out of context.

 

[דוד חֵן (David)]

God hates everyone, we are all His enemies. God’s love is manifest in that he forgives those He hates and treats them with love

Read

 

[timewerx]

I have been thinking a lot about sound and light lately. I have been thinking of Hell as an absence of sound and light, being cast into the outer darkness without God. Just read the first few verses of John about in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Darkness is the absence of light, He is the Light and the Sound. I have been thinking for years that total separation from God would be much worse as a Hell than a literal fire. Torment would be without Christ, the absence of the Light and Sound.

Light may not be literal light.

But light may represent what comes out of the darkness if you shine a light on something that is completely dark.

In pitch black darkness, you see nothing. But if you have a torch (light), you can turn it on and you will see what is around you. And in seeing comes knowledge. And in knowledge comes the truth.

Thus light may represent, seeing/perceiving, knowledge, wisdom, and the Truth.

The lack of light or darkness may represent the opposite - blindness, foolishness, ignorance, and falsehoods.

Does this make sense to anyone? I'm percolating some theories here. I believe the Bible is the inherent Word of God, but I don't know if we could really comprehend what Hell is- total annhilation of the soul (absence of sound and light) and perhaps describing it as fire is the only way himans can begin to understand the continuous torture of being without God. I think about the lines in the Bible about being cast into the outer darkness.

Darkness (blindness, foolishness, ignorance, and lies) is what kills the soul.

Knowledge, Wisdom, and the Truth is what makes the soul live.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[smithed64]

God judges and God punishes, but for a time and for a purpose. The time period is "of the age" not forever, and the purpose is to burn up, not the sinner, but the sinner's dross, his chaff, his wood, hay and stubble. I'm not good at remembering chapter and verse, but I am good at remembering concepts, and I know God said that He wounds and He heals, kills and makes alive, but nowhere does He say that He "sends to Hell." On the contrary, when God was complaining of the Israelite practice of burning their children to some pagan entity I don't care to name or call a god, He told them that such a thing had never entered His Mind. Hear that?! People believe that God sends sinners and the wicked to Hell, but God states that He never even thought of such a thing!

If you believe in God, and that He tells it to you straight, you must stop and think that one over...

17“Behold, how happy is the man whom God reproves,
So do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.

God disciplines us, because He loves us and because we love Him. When you sin against Him, you hate him and are his enemy. He will punish for the sin that you continually do.

I see you don't understand about how things go with punishment.

If I steal some money from my kid, there's not much he can do about it.
If I steal the same amount from my friend, he could have me arrested
If I steal the same amount from a bank, I could go to prison

Punishment Is dealt out depending on who you sin against. When you sin against God, you get punished eternally, because he is eternal.

What you are talking about God not letting something enter His mind. He was talking about human sacrifices to Him. Not Hell.

He does punish those who don't repent and place their trust in Jesus. The sins that they commit, will send them to Hell.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Much talk but no substance. Considering backing up your opinions with scripture.

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Well, I was paraphrasing, but I know I had the concept right. Would it help if I copied and pasted to this thread my entire 208-page manuscript? Probably not, as I believe that until the Spirit moves you, you will reside in your belief. I do not post here for everyone. The only way to settle the matter would be to read your Bible with an open mind, which is to say, without theological biases. It was useful to me to consider eternal damnation, annihilationism and universal reconciliation as theories. You see, I was raised a Baptist, and so was exposed to damnationism. Later, I was a member of the SDA's for a few years, and that gave me to understand annihilationism. Lastly, I encountered universal reconciliation, and two years ago, I just had to make a survey of my KJV and see for myself which theory fit the data (the Biblical text) better. I found that, though damnation and annihilation garner a few points, universal reconciliation is the best fit, and by a huge margin.

Be aware that I rejected "Hell" as prima facie evidence for the simple reason that the word is not in the original Hebrew or Greek. "Hell" came to us from the ancient languages of pagan northern Europe, and with the "hell" words reset to "sheol," "hades" and the like, it was glaringly obvious that the concept came from pagan sources as well. Do you see, then, that I don't need to quote a single Scripture to disprove Hell? It can be done on a purely linguistic level!

OTOH, I will gather some Scriptures together, but be aware that I despise so-called "proof texts."

 

[smithed64]

II Peter 3:9 The third chapter talks about the second coming of the Lord, and what God desires " The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."

This is after Peter relays all the sins that separate us from God. After this whole list of damnable sins and wretchedness, after this- we get this verse- He is not willing that ANY should perish. All these sinners: adulterers, covetous, scoffers, liars, etc. etc.

Context...read the verses before and after.

3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

V.3-6 Is speaking of mockers of His coming back. And how they forget by the word of God Heaven and earth was formed, and then destroyed by water, at His word.

v.7 There will come a time in the future where the earth will be destroyed in fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

v8, Peter tells us this about God's timing and explains it in v9
God is patient, thankfully he is, because He's giving all men/women a chance to come to Him in repentance. By His mercy He takes his time.
"not wishing for any to perish"...means he doesn't want to send anyone to Hell, the second death, as it is called
"but for all to come to repentance" He wants everyone to be saved, through repentance.

This doesn't say anything against hell. It backs it up.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Punishment Is dealt out depending on who you sin against. When you sin against God, you get punished eternally, because he is eternal.

What you are talking about God not letting something enter His mind. He was talking about human sacrifices to Him. Not Hell.

You are talking about Justice, so tell me, would a just God send you to Hell forever because of temporal sins? Where in His Word did He tell us that we would get punished eternally because He is eternal? Whatever you want to quote to answer me, first read it in an interlinear version. I have found interlinear Greek to be a big help in deconstructing Hell.

Was I not clear enough? Read Jeremiah 19:5 again. He said clearly that burning people was not something He had ever thought of. Hell involves burning people, yes? So I just connected the dots, something I am good at. I take God at His Word. Others subscribe to doctrines.

 

[sculleywr]

The only people who can be separate from God are the people who deny Christ as Savior.

Again, how can you be separated from God Who is EVERYWHERE PRESENT?

 

[Goatee]

Heaven and hell are on earth now. The kingdom of God is within us.

Hell when we die is as God has said it will be. As will Heaven be.