Hell.....

[BobRyan]

I clarified my terms. I think it is more accurate to say our sin has eternal consequences. See my last post.

.

Certainly it is true that sin has "eternal consequences" for the lost regardless of the duration of the lake of fire event.

 

[BobRyan]

God is the Creator of Adam, but that doesn't automatically make Him Adam's Father. When a potter makes a pot, is he the pot's father, or merely its creator? .

While it is true about the pot -- it is not true about living beings such as humans. hence Luke 3:38
38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Adam is the "son of God" in the sense that God created him and he has no other Father or Mother.

Christ is the Son of God - in that He is ontologically eternal God - and functions in the "one God in three persons" Godhead as the Son of God. Christ has "Life in Himself" John 5 - unlike all non-God beings who merely borrow life - from the life-giver -- to live.

Even the devil is not 'as god - having life IN himself'.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

If "forever" really always mean "forever", why do we not see smoke rising from Edom today?

And:

Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

 

[BobRyan]

In Rev. 14:12 John links us back to those of Rev. 13:10
/the patience and faith of the saints

Rev 11 has the 1260 years of the dark ages - as 42 months and 1260 prophetic days (30x42 = 1260)
Rev 12 has the 1260 years of the dark ages as 1260 days and as 3.5 years (times time and half a time)
Rev 13 has the 1260 years of the dark ages as 42 months (vs 5)
Daniel 7 has 1260 years of the dark ages as 3.5 years (times time and half a time -- 42 months)

 

[Colter]

Certainly it is true that sin has "eternal consequences" for the lost regardless of the duration of the lake of fire event.

I'm going to ask that I be dressed in flame retardant cloths by the undertaker! Also smuggle in a fire extinguisher.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[expos4ever]

This happens sometime after heaven has been rolled back as
a scroll. /6th seal of Revelation.

Doubt it. It is a specific prediction about the destruction of Edom that history shows to have been fulfilled. Do you want the relevant citation?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[expos4ever]

Why do you think Idumea was still around at the time of Mark
3:8?
Bozrah was the ancient captial of Edom. Edom moved around over the
years and even into part of Israel, and some became Jews. So how
do we know what Edom actually is for the prophecy in Isaiah 34?
by the Dead Sea? in Jordan? in Israel? near Moab?
What would you say?
Idumea though did not get make into burning pitch and and brimstone yet.

Isaiah predicts the destruction of Edom and history shows that nation was indeed defeated. This, of course, does not mean that the region ceased to exist as a piece of land - the prophecy was clearly about destruction of the nation as a nation, not the actual destruction of the very land itself! So, it is not surprising that Mark refers to the land itself.

But, in any event, as another poster has pointed out the same language of eternal fire is used relative to Sodom and Gomorrah. We know that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed and the fires do not still burn, even though the Biblical text refers to eternal fire".

Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

 

[Hieronymus]

Certainly it is true that sin has "eternal consequences" for the lost regardless of the duration of the lake of fire event.

The 2nd death is the eternal consequence.
Dead forever.

 

[expos4ever]

Do you think heaven was already rolled together as a scroll?
When was it unrolled?

This is yet another example of poetic language, and this can be independently shown to the be case (I will do so later). The Old Testament uses such language of cosmic events to characterize socio-political change - it was never intended to be taken literally.

Again, I am not making this up - we have strong Biblical (and extra-Biblical) evidence that the people of that day indeed used language in this way.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm going to ask that I be dressed in flame retardant cloths by the undertaker! Also smuggle in a fire extinguisher.

There is a "Service" provided for atheists - a self-help call-in hotline - started by Sarah Morehead - and she said that the number one call that they get from atheists is as you say - concern about hell.

 

[sculleywr]

Our treasures are in Heaven.
This is stated.
Belief is proof of the things yet unseen, is also stated.
John 3:16 is also a clear statement.

It does not guarantee epistemological certainty. I never said there wasn't a form of knowledge, but the form of knowledge is not epistemological. It is not something you can put into a beaker and measure. You can't perform an experiment to prove that you are saved using empirical evidence. That kind of knowledge is something only the Lord has.

 

[topcare]

I'd say we disagree. I never said it isn't.
Conditionalism: Belief in Christ is the condition for eternal life.

Than I apologize

 

[sculleywr]

There is not a Bible Book of Hezekiah, so what do you mean by
"First Hezekiah"?

Follow the words of Jonah>

"...And Jonah was in the whale three days...then Jonah prayed...
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction...and he
heard me...of hell..."

not I'm then crying, but he speaks to God of a past event when
he had cried from hell and God heard him

He now prays from the belly of a fish, but he speaks of how he
earlier was heard from the belly of hell. He then goes into the story
of how he had drowned.

Only one problem: Jonah was not the one describing his actual location. He was describing how he felt. In the verse you completely cut out because of its contradicting you: "Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,".

Regardless of where JONAH says he is, the Scripture says where he actually is.

The major problem here is that once you're in hell, there is no return. The denizens of hell do not pray for forgiveness or for salvation because they are unable to believe that they can be saved.

 

[Alithis]

Good to know that you and the children get it with no problem (meaning you have the same understanding as a child) and yet seasoned biblical scholars don't find it easy to understand at all.

And of course your understanding couldn't be wrong. That's not a possibility.

that's not my fault seasoned biblical scholars don't find it easy lol .the carnal mind does not get the things of the spirit .
and we .. are the children of god .. made by his power the sons of god and the wisdom of this world is foolishness to god
faith must be child like - as long as it is indeed IN GOD and not in man .

 

[Alithis]

That is what I was stating. It was a clarification, because many people read "real" to mean "physical".

well there ya go then

 

[Colter]

There is a "Service" provided for atheists - a self-help call-in hotline - started by Sarah Morehead - and she said that the number one call that they get from atheists is as you say - concern about hell.

LoL! It's weird that they belive in hell but not God.