• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Do you believe hell exist?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,462
Elyria, OH
✟47,715.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
Sorry but I think "sun god disks" and kippot are a bit of a stretch.

I've always heard they were a reminder of how Hashem's hand is on one's head protecting, guiding. I know they are not commanded but they do not diminish the Word of God at all, nor do they add anything to it. Personally, I think they're a lovely reminder of Hashem.
 
Upvote 0

yedida

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Oct 6, 2010
9,779
1,462
Elyria, OH
✟47,715.00
Faith
Marital Status
In Relationship
Lulav said: "Yeshua is mentioned in the second position, the false prophet in fourth. I don't think they are speaking of the same person here."
I do not agree with her.


Oh okay, I don't think she thinks they're the same either, recheck her posts.
 
Upvote 0

ContraMundum

Messianic Jewish Christian
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2005
15,666
2,958
Visit site
✟123,138.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If you look hard enough you can find that everything under the sun has a pagan influence whether it started out that way or not.

Exactly. Even Abraham was a pagan once.

Chocolate and chocolate drinks were discovered by pagans. Do you eat chocolate?

Good point. Wedding rings come to mind too.
 
Upvote 0

INTJ-F

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2011
950
92
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟24,300.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
So catholics wear zucchetto is in reverence to God?

monk zucchetto - Google Search


It is a pagan symbol out of Babylon (which took it from Egypt) Judaism calls it a kippah, catholics call it a zucchetto. It represents the nimbus which is around peoples' heads to represent deity or divinity. Nimbus is common in catholic pictures although came directly from Babylon.


Justifying it as a "symbol of God" is how mainstream justifies all the symbols they have come to use to worship God. When Israel did it to the brass serpent, it was destroyed because it was never meant to be a symbol for worship.


Wearing the sun "god" disk is only one place removed from shaving the hair in a circle which God said to not do:


Leviticus 19

26 "You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.
28You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.
 
Upvote 0

anisavta

Never Forget!
May 25, 2008
5,376
701
Too far away from Jerusalem
✟39,193.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
It is a pagan symbol out of Babylon (which took it from Egypt) Judaism calls it a kippah, catholics call it a zucchetto. It represents the nimbus which is around peoples' heads to represent deity or divinity. Nimbus is common in catholic pictures although came directly from Babylon.
Which website did this info come from. Is there a direct link?
 
Upvote 0

INTJ-F

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2011
950
92
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟24,300.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I posted links already. Nimbus is common and is known to come from Egypt. The hindus also used it.

Egypt India

292px-Sun_god_Ra.svg.png
images.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,246
✟517,518.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
I do not agree.
Well you are entitled! Do you ever agree with anyone here? :D

I personally see three individuals mentioned and two groups but if you want to call Yeshua a false prophet, that's your prerogative!:wave:
 
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,246
✟517,518.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
I wish I could. Can't have chocolate because of the caffeine. :cry:
Oh no! Say it isn't so! Not even a little? I like the dark chocolate, it is supposed to be healthy for you, lots of antioxidants. I get the organic kind, my fav is Dagoba Dark with lavender and blueberries! :yum:

I have High BP but it doesn't seem to effect it any.

Here's something to lift your spirits! They have a chart to explain
[FONT=georgia, arial]Chocolate does not containCaffeine.[/FONT]

[FONT=georgia, arial]There is a persistent urban legend that Chocolate contains caffeine.........

are you allergic to the chemicals or? Migraines?


[/FONT]How can I get the health benefits of chocolate without caffeine?
 
Upvote 0

yonah_mishael

הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם
Jun 14, 2009
5,370
1,325
Tel Aviv, Israel
Visit site
✟42,173.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
"Not all that glitters is gold."

Visual similarity does not equal paganism within Judaism. That claim could be made in several good ways, but this certainly isn't one of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ContraMundum
Upvote 0

Lulav

Y'shua is His Name
Aug 24, 2007
34,149
7,246
✟517,518.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
So catholics wear zucchetto is in reverence to God?

monk zucchetto - Google Search


It is a pagan symbol out of Babylon (which took it from Egypt) Judaism calls it a kippah, catholics call it a zucchetto. It represents the nimbus which is around peoples' heads to represent deity or divinity. Nimbus is common in catholic pictures although came directly from Babylon.


Justifying it as a "symbol of God" is how mainstream justifies all the symbols they have come to use to worship God. When Israel did it to the brass serpent, it was destroyed because it was never meant to be a symbol for worship.


Wearing the sun "god" disk is only one place removed from shaving the hair in a circle which God said to not do:


Leviticus 19

26 "You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.
28You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.
What the Catholics wear and do has nothing to do with why it is worn by Jews. Here, this gives a brief history on the kippah and shows that is is a custom from various places, some that it was to distinguish the Jews from the Christians , better than the enforced wearing of a yellow star.
 
Upvote 0

INTJ-F

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2011
950
92
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟24,300.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
What the Catholics wear and do has nothing to do with why it is worn by Jews. Here, this gives a brief history on the kippah and shows that is is a custom from various places, some that it was to distinguish the Jews from the Christians , better than the enforced wearing of a yellow star.

Yes. Catholics got it from Egypt -> Babylon -> Rome and then forced the Jewish people to wear them. It is the same symbol of the sun "god" disks from Egypt

I'm quite surprised Israel did not bring the kippah directly from Egypt. They certainly brought the golden calf and other paganism from Egypt and they brought easter services (and likely christmas celebrations) from Babylon.

Kippah is from the sun "god" disk worship. It should be rejected the same as obelisks, crosses, and other such pagan symbols. The cross was a pagan symbol before Yeshua and was used by the pagan "god" tammuz (AKA: ra, mithra, ba-al, etc.)

tammuz and his cross
(alabaster relief from Ashur c.1500 bc)
tammuz1.jpg


Why do you defend the kippah and claim it did not originate from paganism? Ancient Israel routinely participated in paganism and even had easter sunrise services in the Holy Temple long before Yeshua was born --- a celebration of tammuz
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
As we all know the bible uses many parables. There is no real Hell, that word was put into scriptures by the Gnostic Pagans. Words like grave, pit, and Gehenna were replaced with the word hell. Satan and other associated words are a metaphor to a number of situations. Those condemned to destruction never return. They are cut off for all eternity, never to live again.
The number of times "Hell" appears in the English Bible
Translations


Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total's
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)

0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0

0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

0
0
Western N.T. (1926)

0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)

0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0

0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)

0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)**

0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

0
0




The word hell was not originally in the Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic text
as the so called biased translators have tried to establish it
as scripture; but they were not good enough to cover up the
reality of what God is saying. The source of this word hell is
a bit hard to follow in that the concept of eternal torture is
not Christian, but Pagan. You can find it in Babylon, in
Greece and especially Rome. But if you dig a little bit deeper
you will see that it is bad translator that have infected this
doctrine of Damnation in scriptures. As a matter of fact scripture teaches
totally the opposite.
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
Some information from Wiki...Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In many religious traditions, Hell is a place of suffering and punishment in the afterlife, often in the underworld. Religions with a linear divine history often depict Hell as endless (for example, see Hell in Christian beliefs).

The modern English word Hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (about 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period, and ultimately from Proto-Germanic *halja, meaning "one who covers up or hides something".

The word has cognates in related Germanic languages such as Old Frisian helle, hille, Old Saxon hellja, Middle Dutch helle (modern Dutch hel), Old High German helle (Modern German Hölle), and Gothic halja.
Subsequently, the word was used to transfer a pagan concept to Christian theology and its vocabulary[3] (however, for the Judeo-Christian origin of the concept see Gehenna).

The English word hell has been theorized as being derived from Old Norse Hel. Among other sources, the Poetic Edda, compiled from earlier traditional sources in the 13th century, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, provide information regarding the beliefs of the Norse pagans, including a being named Hel, who is described as ruling over an underworld location of the same name.


Judaism

Daniel 12:2 proclaims "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt." Judaism does not have a specific doctrine about the afterlife, but it does have a teaching of describing Gehenna.

Gehenna is not Hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on his or her life's deeds, or rather, where one becomes fully aware of one's own shortcomings and negative actions during one's life. The Kabbalah describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked).

The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 11 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. עולם הבא; lit. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.

According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame. People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds. When one has so deviated from the will of God, one is said to be in gehinom. This is not meant to refer to some point in the future, but to the very present moment. The gates of teshuva (return) are said to be always open, and so one can align his will with that of God at any moment. Being out of alignment with God's will is itself a punishment according to the Torah. In addition, Subbotniks and Messianic Judaism believe in Gehenna, but Samaritans probably believe in a separation of the wicked in a shadowy existence, Sheol, and the righteous in heaven.

Christianity

The Christian doctrine of hell derives from the teaching of the New Testament, where hell is typically described using the Greek words Tartarus or Hades or the Hebrew word Gehenna. Hell is taught as the final destiny of those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior after they have passed through the great white throne of judgment [4] [5], where they will be punished for sin and permanently separated from God after the general resurrection and last judgment. However, many Christian theologians of the early Church and some of the modern Church subscribe to the doctrines of conditional immortality ("annihilationism") or universal reconciliation. [6][7][8]


Biblical words translated as "Hell"

Sheol
In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times. Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times.
Modern translations, however, do not translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it "the grave," "the pit," or "death."

Gehenna
In the New Testament, both early KJV and modern translations often translate Gehenna as "Hell." Young's Literal Translation is one notable exception, simply using "Gehenna", which was in fact a geographic location just outside Jerusalem (the Valley of Hinnom).

Tartarus
Appearing only in II Peter 2:4 in the New Testament, both early and modern translations often translate Tartarus as "Hell." Again, Young's Literal Translation is an exception, using "Tartarus".

Hades
Hades is the Greek word traditionally used for the Hebrew word Sheol in such works as the Septuagint, the Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, Christian writers of the New Testament followed this use. While earlier translations of the KJV most often translated Hades as "hell", modern translations use the transliteration "Hades" or render the word as "the grave" in most contexts.

Abaddon
The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning "destruction",and is sometimes used as a synonym of Hell.

Infernus
The Latin word infernus means "being underneath" and is often translated as "Hell".

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

If there is death of the body and spirit, then how can there be life in Hell.
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
Hell, What did God say?

This thread is about the word "Hell" being in scripture. If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. Was the word "Hell" added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna? Hell, What did God say?
Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Genesis 3:3
but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "


Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.


Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. And that is why you see the word "Hell" in scripture. It's a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity.
That is why are bibles also say God does "EVIL." Did you know that King James was the Grand Master of the Masons, and that the King James Bible is also known as the Masonic Bible? And that is the tip of the iceberg.

This subject is about the condemned, not those who will receive life immortal.

The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die.
The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit.
Is the word "HELL" biblical, or not? If the word Hell is biblical, then the Serpent told the truth.

Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


This thread is about the word "Hell" being in scripture. If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. Was the word "Hell" added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna? I do not think that it is evil for God to take away the lives of the condemned. As a matter of fact I think that it is responsible and merciful.
Everyone should remember that the Serpent, Satan, and Devil is a liar. The Serpent says you will not surely die, after God said you will surely die. Yahshua reaffirms this by saying God can destroy both body and spirit. Personally I do not believe in universal salvation, because I see no scriptural support for it. There are variations to the meaning spirit and spiritual. A living soul consist of both body and spirit. Death of the spirit is the second death. God does not lie, there is no reason for Him to do so. Immortality is an act of God, and nothing we can do ourselves. the lake of fire is a parabolic phrase. Lake being the body of the condemned, and fire being the judgement. [And after that] death and the grave are done away with. But only after the judement.
There is a permanent punishment for the condemned, it's called death. If peoples sins cost them their life, then why think they have escaped judgements justice. We worship a God who is merciful.
 
Upvote 0