Hell?

[b&wpac7]

I received a PM before for supposedly promoting something

Sorry to hear that. I have never quite understood the promotion rule here. Sometimes the sharing of ideas is promotion, sometimes it isn't.

 

[vajradhara]

This something that has been pushed to the background in Judaism, I received a PM before for supposedly promoting something, so cannot say much more than, search a book, "The journey of the soul" by Rabbi DovBer Pinson. Obviously it only gives an idea of what it,s all about. As you already know we are to study and study more.

Gilgul Neshamot, iirc, is the Hebrew for this idea.

i posted a TL;DNR exposition many years ago. you could probably find it here: http://www.christianforums.com/t48356/

it's been on this forum for 8 years now and never received a mention from moderators so i'd imagine we could still talk about it without fear of censure.

metta,

~

 

[Robban]

Gilgul Neshamot, iirc, is the Hebrew for this idea.

i posted a TL;DNR exposition many years ago. you could probably find it here: http://www.christianforums.com/t48356/

it's been on this forum for 8 years now and never received a mention from moderators so i'd imagine we could still talk about it without fear of censure.

metta,

~

Thank you for pointing to this thread, i will read it.
Kabbala is the inner, deeper dimension of the Torah, and should never ever be seperated from it. There are so-called "kabbala centre" that do just this, and it is not to be recommended, in fact it can become dangerous.
One well known and respected Rabbi, is/was sued for about 1.5-2 million dollars, because he spoke the kabbala centre in London a peice of his mind, which they did not take kindly to. I don,t know how it turned out.
We are to study using that which is available, but always according to the teachings of the great sages which are carried on by Rabbis. For me it is easier to have contact with Rabbis in NY.
The nearest Chabad house to me is 80 miles away. At the moment I am surrounded by muslims, something which does not disturb me in anyway.
We are now living in the "culmination of days", it is prophesied that in these days these teaching will fill the earth.
Just a little footnote, "In the heavens is G-d,s light. In the work of our hands dwells G-d Himself, the scource of all light.

 

[Robban]

Gilgul Neshamot, iirc, is the Hebrew for this idea.

i posted a TL;DNR exposition many years ago. you could probably find it here: http://www.christianforums.com/t48356/

it's been on this forum for 8 years now and never received a mention from moderators so i'd imagine we could still talk about it without fear of censure.

metta,

~

Thank you once again for pointing to your thread, you put a lot of time and energy into it. If many read it, it would help clear up many missconceptions, not in the least among Christians.

 

[vajradhara]

Thank you once again for pointing to your thread, you put a lot of time and energy into it. If many read it, it would help clear up many missconceptions, not in the least among Christians.

thank you for your kind words but i was just a messenger, the author is listed at the bottom.

if you read the corresponding dialog you'd be rather disappointed i think.. .. but that was then and this is now.. perhaps things can be somewhat different now

metta,

~v

 

[razeontherock]

"Mark" is the sum total of that person's stored experiences, his biochemical memories, emotions, habits and so forth. The construct of the "self" that is Mark could not exist without the body.

This is the Biblical perspective.

Everything that is distinctly identifiable as "us" relies upon information stored within the brain.

This is opinion. It may represent our best current scientific understanding, so it may also be a qualified medical opinion; but it is still opinion and not really objective. We as a species just don't know enough to be objective about such a thing!

 

[razeontherock]

And our "self" is but the sum-total of our accumulated experiences - not a constant, unchanging entity, but a construct that changes throughout life.

This also is the Biblical perspective on "soul." (I should clarify that the concept here is referred to as "soul" consistently throughout the KJV, with a different concept for "spirit," and that sometimes others reverse those terms)

Accordingly, the notion of the soul as an incorporeal, immortal "spirit-pilot" that merely uses the body as a vessel that can be discarded at any point is, bluntly speaking, childish. It simply doesn't add up with that we KNOW about neurology and psychology.

There is much that we KNOW (by experience) that simply doesn't add up with our current base of scientific knowledge.

 

[razeontherock]

as I would see it, a "true Christian" is not someone who would never act or think in a certain way, but a human being who seeks to live by Grace.

That's what makes language in this area difficult. Specific actions and even thoughts can be correctly discerned as un-Christian behavior, but it doesn't mean the individual isn't a Christian. It may just mean they stumbled.


Grace comes in handy in such situations!

 

[razeontherock]

A functioning body and mind are one, indivisible.

Christianity expresses this concept as "hypostatic union."

 

[razeontherock]

Found this:

What is a Soul? - Life & Death

Can't say I had ever looked that deeply into the soul concept... seems like it is or it isn't to me. I guess my experience would fit into this in a sense. I am "integrated", it is only with death that the connection is severed.

The Hebrew words for these concepts of soul, spirit etc are interesting. I would expect a Jew would know quite a bit about that, but apparently it's not important within Judaism?

 

[oi_antz]

KITT did wisely eject David Hasslehoff in my story, but the analogy would work just as well if KITT had never had a driver in the first place, and had told its employers: "I don't need that lifeguard driving me. I can handle everything on my own."


eudaimonia,

Mark

Thanks for clearing that up Mark, I had crazy pictures running through my imagination for a moment there, zombies and robots!! So the point is that you reject the notion of the soul, but you accept that some bodies might like to have a soul in them and it is their choice to do so. I wonder if you really do believe this, or whether you think no matter what, we are always just an intelligent vehicle like KITT and it doesn't even have a seat for a soul, even if we did want one? It's just a bit difficult to picture a concept that is foreign to me, you know how it is

 

[Eudaimonist]

So the point is that you reject the notion of the soul, but you accept that some bodies might like to have a soul in them and it is their choice to do so.

No, that implication was unintentional. KITT doesn't need or want David Hasselhoff. Can you blame it?

no matter what, we are always just an intelligent vehicle like KITT and it doesn't even have a seat for a soul, even if we did want one?

Now you are getting it.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[b&wpac7]

The Hebrew words for these concepts of soul, spirit etc are interesting. I would expect a Jew would know quite a bit about that, but apparently it's not important within Judaism?

I wouldn't say it isn't important within Judaism, it isn't something I have found very important. Different people are drawn to different things.

 

[razeontherock]

Well it does seem that the ethical side of Judaism draws more than the 'mystical' side. Isn't that priority taught?

 

[b&wpac7]

Well it does seem that the ethical side of Judaism draws more than the 'mystical' side. Isn't that priority taught?

By whom? People approach things from different angels. Some people are drawn to the mystical side, some to other parts. The idea of performing mitzot is a core among all, but that doesn't prevent someone into getting into the other areas.

 

[razeontherock]

By whom? People approach things from different angels. Some people are drawn to the mystical side,

Freudian slip? Or is there something you're not telling us about your repressed mystic? It's not that late yet ...

 

[b&wpac7]

Freudian slip? Or is there something you're not telling us about your repressed mystic? It's not that late yet ...

Spellcheck doesn't catch it if it's a correctly spelled word LOL

 

[Zoness]

I can't even remember what I originally said on this subject.

 

[oi_antz]

No, that implication was unintentional. KITT doesn't need or want David Hasselhoff. Can you blame it?



Now you are getting it.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Ah ok, so you're more or less saying there is no such thing as David Hasselhoff. Now I want to draw this analogy to relevance, who is David Hasselhoff? Is this an imaginary concept for "ego" or "mind" or "inner self", or are you saying that the Holy Spirit is David Hasselhoff and you think He's better left at the beach while you cruise around charming the girls and boys? Thanks for your patience with me on this one, we have obviously fostered some quite different conceptual visions of these things and I need to be sure I know what you're saying.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Ah ok, so you're more or less saying there is no such thing as David Hasselhoff.

Yes, that is what I am saying.

Now I want to draw this analogy to relevance, who is David Hasselhoff? Is this an imaginary concept for "ego" or "mind" or "inner self"

In my analogy, David Hasselhoff represents a dualist's notion of a soul (often thought of as the source of ego, mind, or personality), which is completely distinct from a body. To the dualist, the body is merely a "shell" to be dispensed with at some point. The soul is the "escape pod" of personality, and seems to be a complete entity in its own right.

Consider that KITT could be confused about its nature. Perhaps it imagines that its personality is sitting in the driver's seat. But KITT and the car are one in the same thing.

or are you saying that the Holy Spirit is David Hasselhoff and you think He's better left at the beach while you cruise around charming the girls and boys?

KITT went off to look for a cute Toyota.

But, no, that's not what I was saying. My point was that KITT is a intelligent, aware entity that doesn't require a David Hasselhoff inside in order for it to be intelligent and aware. I wasn't talking about God in any of this. Just the body-soul distinction.

Thanks for your patience with me on this one, we have obviously fostered some quite different conceptual visions of these things and I need to be sure I know what you're saying.

No problem. Thanks for your questions. I don't expect agreement, but I would like to be understood.


eudaimonia,

Mark