Hell

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Yep Jesus really made a pile of money.

Jesus didn't go around selling books and giving sermons on hell.

 

[sentipente]

Why did God choose that guy to give the grand tour of hell? And why would a deserving God need to go to such depths to get people to choose Him?

 

[free2be]

Why did God choose that guy to give the grand tour of hell? And why would a deserving God need to go to such depths to get people to choose Him?

That's true. I believe that Holy Spirit is like a gentleman that knocks gently.

 

[drstevej]

Jesus didn't go around selling books and giving sermons on hell.

TRUE

Jesus didn't go around selling books and giving sermons on hell.

FALSE

LUKE 16:20 ff for example

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Why did God choose that guy to give the grand tour of hell? And why would a deserving God need to go to such depths to get people to choose Him?

Why does God choose to perform *any* miracle?

How do we know that this guy's testimony didn't draw people to Christ? God knows what people need in order to choose Him.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

I posted this elsewhere: the saints have had visions- and they seem to be metaphorical. I don't think we can really grasp what hell is like.

I would think hell's principle pains are the complete absence of God, unceasing permanent punishment and the permanent absence of the body from the soul. Not little red devils chasing you around with a pitchfork.

Man was made in the image of God and so we are always striving to be like Him and look towards Him. Separation from God will cause a kind of pain we can't know.

Paul described purification after death being like a 'refiners fire'. For those that refuse to be purified, they will always be in the refiners fire- where the soul of the wicked, the totally depraved receives forces against it that are completely opposed to its will.

Finally, our soul was created for the body. Much like man was made for woman. Think of the pain that separate from the person you marry brings- and yet our souls are far more intimate to our own bodies. We will experience a separation that will cause us great pain. Unlike in love, our souls will never get over the separation.

 

[drstevej]

Why did God choose that guy to give the grand tour of hell? And why would a deserving God need to go to such depths to get people to choose Him?

God does the choosing and drawing. THANKFULLY! Cause we were DEAD.

jn 6:36 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

TRUE



FALSE

LUKE 16:20 ff for example

Obviously Jesus talked about hell. Our principle understand of Hell comes from Christ, after all. The problem is that Jesus didn't base his ministry on the fear of hell.

He didn't use the fear and hell tactics that these fly-by-night preachers do. Jesus appealed to His sheep because He spoke divine, objective truth- all of it, Heaven and Hell.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

God does the choosing and drawing. THANKFULLY! Cause we were DEAD.

jn 6:36 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
jn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

And He chooses all of us. Some just don't choose Him..

 

[drstevej]

And He chooses all of us. Some just don't choose Him..

Read jn 6:44

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Read jn 6:44

I quite familiar with the Gospel of John- and I'm aware that it is the preferred (or most misused) Gospel of Calvinism.

 

[drstevej]

Obviously Jesus talked about hell. Our principle understand of Hell comes from Christ, after all. The problem is that Jesus didn't base his ministry on the fear of hell.

He didn't use the fear and hell tactics that these fly-by-night preachers do. Jesus appealed to His sheep because He spoke divine, objective truth- all of it, Heaven and Hell.

Jesus did use the fear of hell in His preaching. He was not like the "fly by night" preachers. ERGO, you can preach about hell and be like Jesus without being a fly by night preacher.

Jesus words often confounded His sheep and angered the Pharisees enough to grab rocks.

jn 6:66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.


jn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Rhamiel]

SA

Finally, our soul was created for the body. Much like man was made for woman. Think of the pain that separate from the person you marry brings- and yet our souls are far more intimate to our own bodies. We will experience a separation that will cause us great pain. Unlike in love, our souls will never get over the separation.

interesting stuff, I tend to think the major pain of Hell is speration from God, but I thought at the end of time every one will have a resurection of the body, so that after that and for ever more those in hell have a body as well

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

SA

interesting stuff, I tend to think the major pain of Hell is speration from God, but I thought at the end of time every one will have a resurection of the body, so that after that and for ever more those in hell have a body as well

I'm just throwing out theories. It's all speculation of course- but the separation between body and soul is unnatural. The soul greatly desires the body. I suspect in a way that is far more powerful than the body's desire for a mate- a desire we are already familiar with.

I don't think those in hell will have a body. Our bodies, I believe, are from Christ.....

 

[drstevej]

Matthew 13:42
and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[sentipente]

Read jn 6:44

[BIBLE]John 6:44[/BIBLE]

 

[Rhamiel]

In Matt 13:42 the gnashing of teeth could be symbolic, to show that the "furnace" does not destory the sinner but that they still suffer for all time.

The Bible talks about the resurection of the dead so those in hell will have bodies but I do not know if there is physical pain or if it is just spiritual pain, either way hell will not be a fun place.
Read Dante's Inferno if you want a good tour of hell, it is not ment to be literal and Dante was not a mystic but it does a great job at explaining sin

 

[drstevej]

I could care less about Dante, he is not canonical.

AS I read Jesus' words and the tone of His warnings I would not discard the literal so quickly.

 

[Rhamiel]

Oh yes the Inferno is not cannon, Dante was not a mystic, he was not even a priest or pastor, he was a poet, but he wrote such beautiful words, and he explains sin in a way that is very understandable.
Do you have something agianst secular writtings? I love good literature and Dante is up there with the best poets of all time, he is also historic, the Divine Comedy was the first major work written in Italian rather then Latin
I do not discard the literal, I just do not think christians have to take it as literal

 

[drstevej]

Oh yes the Inferno is not cannon, Dante was not a mystic, he was not even a priest or pastor, he was a poet, but he wrote such beautiful words, and he explains sin in a way that is very understandable.
Do you have something agianst secular writtings? I love good literature and Dante is up there with the best poets of all time, he is also historic, the Divine Comedy was the first major work written in Italian rather then Latin
I do not discard the literal, I just do not think christians have to take it as literal

I like secular writing, just not for doctrine.

BTW, I have a T-Shirt with a graphic from The Inferno that says, "I went to hell and all I got was this t-shirt" -- Dante