Hell: Who's Going?

[CantThinkofaUserName]

I've had this conversation a few times with friends, but many seem to disagree with me. What do you all think?

John 14:6,7: "No one can come to the father unless he comes through Me. If you know Me, you know the Father".

What does the above verse imply/mean? Better yet, what does "know" mean?

Many people are convicted within their own hearts of what they believe to be the "truth" - yet, they don't know Jesus - or simply don't accept him as the Son of God.

BIBLE - [First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

QUR'AN - [Surah 9:30]: "The Jews said, 'Ezra is the son of allah', while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of Allah!". These are BLASPHEMIES uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. allah condemns them."

[Qur'an 5:75]: "The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was NO MORE than a messenger."

Muslims / Jews / Buddhists / + many other religions have intensely strong beliefs in their "god" but again, do not know Jesus as the way to the Father.

So my question is this: According to the Bible, are Jews, Muslims, and pretty much anyone that doesn't go through Jesus condemned to "hell"?

 

[Adstar]

I've had this conversation a few times with friends, but many seem to disagree with me. What do you all think?

John 14:6,7: "No one can come to the father unless he comes through Me. If you know Me, you know the Father".

What does the above verse imply/mean? Better yet, what does "know" mean?

Many people are convicted within their own hearts of what they believe to be the "truth" - yet, they don't know Jesus - or simply don't accept him as the Son of God.

BIBLE - [First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

QUR'AN - [Surah 9:30]: "The Jews said, 'Ezra is the son of allah', while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of Allah!". These are BLASPHEMIES uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. allah condemns them."

[Qur'an 5:75]: "The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was NO MORE than a messenger."

Muslims / Jews / Buddhists / + many other religions have intensely strong beliefs in their "god" but again, do not know Jesus as the way to the Father.

So my question is this: According to the Bible, are Jews, Muslims, and pretty much anyone that doesn't go through Jesus condemned to "hell"?

Well I think the Bible verse you have quoted clearly lays out what is to be accepted.

BIBLE - [First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

If one rejects the fact that Jesus is the Messiah who Deny Him will not have eternity with God.

You have also quoted the quran and it clearly rejects Jesus as the Redeemer of mankind and the Son of God, islam declares christianity as blasphemy.

So yes if one holds to the islamic belief in full then one is destined to the eternity in the lake of fire.

The basic foundations of islam is Antichrist. islam makes the rejection within it's scriptures so if one is a true muslim and believes the quran to be the inspired word of God then one is an Antichrist.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Jayangel81]

The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ.


John 14-6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Some people claim that the Jews dont need Jesus, something along the lines of they are the chosen, Id like to see that biblical.

Paul wrote: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God to salvation for all who believe, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. (Romans 1:16, NKJV

Muslims seem to think we have the same God but we dont, they dont recognize Jesus is God, and without Jesus..well

John 3-16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3-17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3-18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We are justified by faith. The unbelievers will fall into damnation Im afraid. And God does not want this, He loves everyone so much, thats why His Son paid our penalty.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Some people claim that the Jews dont need Jesus, something along the lines of they are the chosen, Id like to see that biblical.

I would love to know where they get this information.

Can anyone further elaborate on what Jayangel181 has mentioned?

Muslims seem to think we have the same God but we dont, they dont recognize Jesus is God, and without Jesus..well

With Muslims, they plain-out call belief in Christ "blasphemy", so that's as clear as day.

As for the Jews, tho', I would like someone to clarify as to whether or not they need to follow the words of Christ to enter "Heaven."

Thanks!

 

[GBTWC]

So yes if one holds to the islamic belief in full then one is destined to the eternity in the lake of fire.

I agree with everything else you said but Jesus made it clear judgement to condemnation is not our job maybe this would better be stated the bible says "your qoute here "

but again Jesus also made it clear we will be held accountable for what weve been given so if someone has only been given Islam then Jesus is just and merciful praise Him




Christos Anecti

 

[Jayangel81]

I would love to know where they get this information.

Can anyone further elaborate on what Jayangel181 has mentioned?



With Muslims, they plain-out call belief in Christ "blasphemy", so that's as clear as day.

As for the Jews, tho', I would like someone to clarify as to whether or not they need to follow the words of Christ to enter "Heaven."

Thanks!

I actually read that on here if im not mistaken, still They need Jesus like everyone else.

Ive spoken to some muslims and they really (at least some do) do think that we have the same God, they believe Jesus was just another prophet and not God's Son.

reguardless, they need Jesus, there is nothing in the world that will save a person.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

I actually read that on here if im not mistaken, still They need Jesus like everyone else.

Well, I hope whoever wrote what you read steps up and explains it for us.

Ive spoken to some muslims and they really (at least some do) do think that we have the same God, they believe Jesus was just another prophet and not God's Son.

The only way I see that being true is if the New Testament is untrue. Otherwise, they just can't be. Everything the Qur'an says completely contradicts what the bible says.

Maybe you can ask them how they can make sense of these two verses:

[First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

[Qur'an 5:75]: "The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was NO MORE than a messenger." ='s Denying

If a Muslim holds to the above belief, then they (according to the Bible) are considered, "The Antichrist."

Am I wrong?

 

[Jayangel81]

I understand what youre saying, and yes anyone who denys Christ is the antichrist.
I havent read much of anything of the quran but I shouldnt be suprised that they contradict themselves considering one is written indeed by the antichrist. satan has more influence in this world than people give him credit for.

I thought they were similar but I guess not..

 

[chilehed]

...So my question is this: According to the Bible, are Jews, Muslims, and pretty much anyone that doesn't go through Jesus condemned to "hell"?

Everyone who gets to heaven gets there through Jesus. And if you reject Jesus when you know full well that he's the only way, then you condemn yourself.

But God doesn't demand the impossible of us. So if through no fault of your own you don't accept Christ, then it's perfectly within God's purview to take that into account.

 

[Emmy]

Dear CantThinkofaUserName. You had some very good replies, and I too, have often thought about the selfsame question. Chilehead puts it very simply: e: God does not demand the impossible of us, if through no fault of our own, we don`t fully accept Jesus as the ONLY way. God will see our inner most thoughts, and He will take all into account. We know that God loves us, and He is a fair and righteous Judge. Personally I believe that Hell is for Satan and his followers only, and God has invited all who Want to come, Can come. The only price we have to pay: " Repent, exchange our old selfish nature into a new man, as St. Paul calls it. I say this humbly and with love, cantThinkofaUserName, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Thanks for the response, everyone.

Dear CantThinkofaUserName. You had some very good replies, and I too, have often thought about the selfsame question. Chilehead puts it very simply: e: God does not demand the impossible of us, if through no fault of our own, we don`t fully accept Jesus as the ONLY way. God will see our inner most thoughts, and He will take all into account. We know that God loves us, and He is a fair and righteous Judge. Personally I believe that Hell is for Satan and his followers only, and God has invited all who Want to come, Can come. The only price we have to pay: " Repent, exchange our old selfish nature into a new man, as St. Paul calls it. I say this humbly and with love, cantThinkofaUserName, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

Hello Emmy,

Isn't what you're saying simply an assumption, tho'? In knowing that we're dealing with an extremely "loving" God, our mind can't help but to think that He would not condemn certain people. But is this what you believe or is there biblical support for what you're saying?

Speaking (exclusively) in biblical terms, and without allowing what we think may or may not happen to those who choose not to believe in Jesus to interfere, this, again, is what God has said in the bible:

[First John 2:22]:

"Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

[John 3-17]:

"3-17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3-18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I understand that God (and the keyword that, as far as I know, is not supported in the bible is) may change his mind and allow those who didn't believe in Christ into heaven, but I have yet to see scriptural proof of this.

Muslims take a stronger stance on Christianity than Jews do. Muslims, as I quoted on Page 1, state that it is BLASPHEMOUS to call Jesus the "Son of God":

From Dictionary.com:

blas·phe·my:

1. impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.

im·pi·ous:

1. Not pious or religious; lacking reverence for God, religious practices, etc.; irreligious; ungodly.

To sum it up according to the Qur'an: It is "ungodly" to call Jesus Christ (as the Bible has stated) the Son of God.

And now after reading the above sentence:

[First John 2:22]:

"Who is the liar if not he who is denying (or, labeling as "ungodly") that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

Jewish people on the other hand, are waiting for their messiah. I mean, I'm not a biblical scholar, but as far as Christians are concerned, hasn't He arrived already?

They may believe that Jesus was a prophet, nothing more than a mere man/mortal, or maybe even non-existent, but they deny Him as the Son of God. If they didn't deny Him, then they would be Christians.

And now after reading the above sentence:

[First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying (a.k.a. Not accepting) that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

So someone please show me how any of this makes sense.

 

[chilehed]

...[First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying (a.k.a. Not accepting) that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

So someone please show me how any of this makes sense.

"To deny" is not the same as "to not accept". One must know of something in order to deny it, but one need not know of something in order to not accept it. There's a significant distinction between the two.

 

[Stinker]

I've had this conversation a few times with friends, but many seem to disagree with me. What do you all think?

John 14:6,7: "No one can come to the father unless he comes through Me. If you know Me, you know the Father".

What does the above verse imply/mean? Better yet, what does "know" mean?

Many people are convicted within their own hearts of what they believe to be the "truth" - yet, they don't know Jesus - or simply don't accept him as the Son of God.

BIBLE - [First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

QUR'AN - [Surah 9:30]: "The Jews said, 'Ezra is the son of allah', while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of Allah!". These are BLASPHEMIES uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. allah condemns them."

[Qur'an 5:75]: "The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was NO MORE than a messenger."

Muslims / Jews / Buddhists / + many other religions have intensely strong beliefs in their "god" but again, do not know Jesus as the way to the Father.

So my question is this: According to the Bible, are Jews, Muslims, and pretty much anyone that doesn't go through Jesus condemned to "hell"?

Of the people who have never had the opportunity to hear and fully understand the Gospel, there will be some who will inherit eternal life. The people who do not, are those who did hear and fully understand the Gospel but chose not to truely believe.



Romans 2:14-16 (The Message)

14-16When outsiders who have never heard of God's law follow it more or less by instinct, they confirm its truth by their obedience. They show that God's law is not something alien, imposed on us from without, but woven into the very fabric of our creation. There is something deep within them that echoes God's yes and no, right and wrong. Their response to God's yes and no will become public knowledge on the day God makes his final decision about every man and woman. The Message from God that I proclaim through Jesus Christ takes into account all these differences.

 

[phoenixgw]

There will be a lot of surprises come judgment day. There will be people that you would never expect to be in Heaven and there will be some "saints" who will be horrified at their judgment. A lot of people in heaven will be aborted babies and children. Christ's certainty and our uncertainty is expressed by the parable of the wheat and the weeds:

37 Jesus replied, “The Son of Man is the farmer who plants the good seed. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. 39 The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels.
40 “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!
(Matthew 13:37-43 NLV www.biblegateway.com)

21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ (Matthew 7:21-24)


Passages that give the reader certainty of Heaven are as follows:

“And I assure you that the time is coming, indeed it’s here now, when the dead will hear my voice—the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live. (John 5:25)

5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. 7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” (John 3:3)

13 And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. 14 The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him. (Eph. 1:13,14)
The Holy Spirit gives different people different gifts--gifts they know are from God to guide one and to continue Christ's work.

Besides babies and children, there is a provision in the book of Romans for those who never heard the gospel, yet conducted themselves as humble servants and through natural revelation of God's creation, drew close to God.

12 When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. 13 For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. 14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life. (Romans 2:12-16)

7 “Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 “You parents—if your children ask for a loaf of bread, do you give them a stone instead? 10 Or if they ask for a fish, do you give them a snake? Of course not! 11 So if you sinful people know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good gifts to those who ask him. (Mat. 7:7-12)

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

"To deny" is not the same as "to not accept". One must know of something in order to deny it, but one need not know of something in order to not accept it. There's a significant distinction between the two.

With all due respect, what's your point?

Jews do not accept that Jesus is the Son of God. They do not accept what has been said in the NT. How can they "come to the Father", if they don't go through Jesus when you have a verse like this:

John 14:6,7: "No one can come to the father unless he comes through Me. If you know Me, you know the Father".

To not accept would be to believe that what has been said is untrue, no? To believe that the words that Jesus spoke were untrue. To believe the claim that Jesus and the Father are "one" is untrue.

 

[CantThinkofaUserName]

Of the people who have never had the opportunity to hear and fully understand the Gospel, there will be some who will inherit eternal life. The people who do not, are those who did hear and fully understand the Gospel but chose not to truely believe.

If what you (and I believe phoenixgw) are saying is true, then people don't have to believe in Jesus as their "God" but more so just do as He did. Are you (or is the bible) implying that through practice of Jesus' words and actions people will be saved? And that even those who have never heard of Jesus will enter the "kingdom" by simply (and "naturally") doing as He did?

 

[chilehed]

...To not accept would be to believe that what has been said is untrue, no?...

It could also be to not know that it was said at all, and thus to not be capable of having any opinion about it.

There are two ideas about this. One idea is that in order to attain heaven one must have the intellectual understanding of the claim that Jesus is the Christ, and must positively accept that claim. If that's the case, then there's no possibility of salvation for babies, the mentally infirm, those who heard of it from folks who were so offensive that they brought scandal to the message, or anyone who never heard of it at all.

The other idea is that in order to attain hell a person must positively reject whatever revelation God gave them about himself. God gives everyone some degree of revelation about himself, even if it's only the natural revelation that is written into everyone's soul. If that's the case, then it's possible for those to attain salvation who are infants, mentally infirm, etc.

I find the latter idea to be better supported by Scripture than the former. In fact, the former idea is gnostic at its core.

When someone accepts and submits to the revelation they received from God they implicitly accept and submit to him, and they submit only by the grace of God and the merits of Christ. In submitting to God, they submit to Christ, even if they aren't aware of his true identity.

 

[GBTWC]

[First John 2:22]:

"Who is the liar if not he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

[First John 2:22]:

"Who is the liar if not he who is denying (or, labeling as "ungodly") that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

:

[First John 2:22]: "Who is the liar if not he who is denying (a.k.a. Not accepting) that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who is denying the Father and the Son."

So someone please show me how any of this makes sense.

Remember the the 3 most important rules in Bible interpretation:
#1. context
#2. context
#3. context

those verses you are having trouble with in 1st john are written to a Christian church at that time that had heretics coming in and preaching false doctrine so these verses apply specifically to one who know the Gospel and yet is preaching Christ is not God a modern application could be in reference to mormons , jehovahs wittnesess and the likes.

you are correct in trying to interpret the gospel if john verses by other bible verses but the 1st john verses don't apply becouse the context is completely different


on another post you asked

are saying is true, then people don't have to believe in Jesus as their "God" but more so just do as He did. Are you (or is the bible) implying that through practice of Jesus' words and actions people will be saved? And that even those who have never heard of Jesus will enter the "kingdom" by simply (and "naturally") doing as He did?

the two are synonymous beleiving and living if you don't have the lifestyle(aka fruits)of a Christian (like practicing unrepentant sin) that could be evidence you may not have Been born again and remember the word used in jn 3:16 and rom 10:9 for believe is better interpreted in English as entrust you see I believe in peanut butter but I wont entrust my life to it.

 

[JasperJackson]

Who goes to hell?

Any adult, of sound mine, who is aware of Jesus, and who has rejected Him as their personal saviour.

Deuteronomy 1:39 states that children will be allowed into heaven because they are unable to discern between good and evil. That is they can't be held accountable for their actions yet. I believe it's quite reasonable to then extend that to people suffering from mental illness, who are unable to make decisions themselves. I also believe that people who have never heard of Jesus cannot be held accountable for their beliefs. In all these cases God will show his mercy and bring them to heaven.

 

[JasperJackson]

I also need to point out that Jews do not claim that Ezra is the son of God. So the Qur'an blatantly misrepresents another religion. Another reason why Islam should not be taken seriously. To be honest, I'm not sure why Islam is not treated the same as Mormonism. The parallels of their origins is extraordinary. Muhammad/Joseph Smith supposedly sits in a room taking dictation from God, then presents it to the people. I am a little perplexed as to how they could convince anyone about the legitimacy of their claims though...