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Don't forget the context.... in part the 2 preceding verses ....What does this verse mean?
2 Thess 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
I think it was a tradition added, like many others,do not understand how anyone can believe in eternal suffering
The Author is Willing to reveal what HE means to everyone who comes to HIM.many get lost in the bible
so what do you think that means?Revelation 21:8 - lake of fire, second death
Matthew 25:46
It does not mean as some believe that the unrepentant are destroyed, perish, are annihilated, cease to exist etc.The word translated "destruction" is "apollumi." It is used for spilled and spoiled wine, broken wineskins, spoiled food, tarnished gold, faded flowers, lost sheep, lost coin, a prodigal son etc. Also something that is destroyed does not exist and cannot be "away from the presence of the Lord" or anything else.
Just curious. If separation from God is death, then all who are born with out God are already dead. Do you consider this to be the first death, or do you think the first death is when our spirits are separated from our bodies? Jesus said to the man who wanted to attend the funeral before following him, Let the dead bury their dead.Biblical definition of "death:" Separation from God. (not necessarily the cessation of consciousness)
The forum needs a thumbs down icon. This is a lame proof texting without any real discussion.Hell is a place of eternal fire and punishment
Unquenchable Fire
Matt. 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Fiery Hell
Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." See also, Matt. 5:29, 30.
Fiery Hell
Matt. 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell."
Eternal Fire
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."
Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
The word "eternal" in both places is "aionios" which means 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2) without beginning; 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word "punishment" is the word "kolasis" and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering--'to punish, punishment.'"5
Eternal Fire
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."
Thrown into the lake of Fire
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
And this happened before Christ crucified.
Luke 16:19-31, Lazarus and the Rich Man
In Luke 16:19-31 is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Basically, Lazarus is a poor man who suffers during life. The rich man is, of course, rich. They both die. The rich man goes to Hades. Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom, another term for paradise. In Hades, the rich man lifts up his eyes and sees Lazarus far off. He cries out to Abraham and asks for mercy because he is in agony in flame. Abraham says no. Then the rich man asks if someone from the dead were to rise and go tell his brothers not to come to this terrible place. Abraham teaches him that that will not be done either.
Some say that this is a parable. However, if it is, it is unique because no other parable actually names a person. It isn't a story. It is history. It really happened. But many who believe in no consciousness after death will say it is still a parable. The question is then if it is a parable, what is it teaching? If hell fire is false and if self-awareness after death is also false, then Jesus is using false doctrines to teach a truth. Parables illustrate truth. If it is a parable, what does the consciousness after death symbolize? Also, what does the agony in flame symbolize? Are they not real? Of course they are.
Conclusion
Hell is a real place. It is not mere unconsciousness. It is not temporal. It is eternal torment. Perhaps that is why Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven and spent so much time warning people not to go there. After all, if people just stopped existing, why warn them? If it was temporal, they'd get out in a while. But if it were eternal and conscious, then the warning is strong.
Jesus said, "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-30).
After primitive man evolved a concept of an afterlife, they devised rewards and punishments for good and bad ghosts. So this idea of an eternal torment was carried as a belief into various religions. There is either life or death.
Hebrews says that our God is a consuming fire, revelations says that all sinners will have a part in the eternal lake of fire (not that they will be eternal in it as well but have a part). My understanding is that in my case I was an athiest and I felt tortured before being touched by the Holy Spirit, thus my former separation from Lord was in a sense a PART of the eternal lake of fire. I still have not read where the orthodox gets the claim that sinners will burn forever in hell if hell and death is to be cast into the lake of fire - that is by grace sinners will have a part or a taste of hell before repenting and accepting their lord and savior Jesus, though some may not taste death God wills that all his children be saved from hell.
Its a much more understandable then my experience with the Roman Catholic view that made me terrified as a child and kept me away from church. Without that experience though I might not have ever paid attention when the lord came knocking on my door.
What are your views on hell and death being tossed into the eternal lake of fire when Christ returns?
Is hell according to orthodox belief, really the same as what the Bible teaches?
have not seen anything that supports universalismThere is also evidence that can be interpreted to support annihilationism or universalism.
In your heart are you willing 'to' see such a view?have not seen anything that supports universalism
There are multiple issues at play here. "Hell" is an English word. The modern understanding of Hell in the English-speaking world dates from the King James Bible, which used this single word as a translation for a number of Hebrew and Greek words including Sheol, Hades, etc. Earlier comments have explained this. My understanding is that "lake of fire" is a translation of the Greek gehenna which referred to a literal contemporary location, what was essentially the city dump outside Jerusalem where trash was burned. As more fuel was always being added to the pile, the fire there never went out-- it was unquenchable.
Biblical definition of "death:" Separation from God. (not necessarily the cessation of consciousness)
No, Hell and the Lake of Fire are two different things. Hell is jail, the Lake of Fire is execution. God will not put anyone into the Lake of Fire until after they have been judged and proven guilty at the White Throne Judgement. Once that is done for everyone who rejects the salvation freely given to all who will accept it, then the jail will be tossed into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his demons and the people who chose Satan over Jesus.
The two have become synonyms because after the Resurrection of our Lord, no believer went to Hell but to Heaven. So only all who die without Christ will be retained in Hell reserved for the White Throne Judgement and the Lake of Fire.
What this means is that before Jesus, everyone went to Hell. But those who died in faith of the coming Messiah were released when Jesus descended into Hell to set the captives free when he proclaimed the good news that redemption had been fulfilled.
Learning Hebrew from the Jews.Your authority for the meaning of Hebrew, "word?"
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