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Ask yourself this question:
"Would you want anyone to go to hell"
If hell was a real place of unending anguish, would you want them to be there.
Could you stand your children there
Could you stand your family there.
Could you stand your friends there.
Could you stand your enemies there.
And what if you end up in this place, is it fair to be there?
No, I wouldn't want anyone to go to Hell - except maybe Hitler, and Stalin, and Pol Pot, and Mussolini, and...well, there are actually quite a few now that I think about it.
No one ends up in Hell unfairly. God sends no one to Hell by mistake. All who are there deserve to be there.
Who deserves to be there? I can think of no one.No, I wouldn't want anyone to go to Hell - except maybe Hitler, and Stalin, and Pol Pot, and Mussolini, and...well, there are actually quite a few now that I think about it.
No one ends up in Hell unfairly. God sends no one to Hell by mistake. All who are there deserve to be there.
It is a fair analysis to think we will all be accountable. But why can't any type of punishment entail a complete rehabilitation of ones soul.
Your basically saying the Bible teaches different things.The Church has never had a dogmatic view on Hell, and multiple views have existed concurrently throughout Christian history, and today. Universal reconciliation is an example of one of those views, and while its dogmatic insistence has been regarded as outside of orthodoxy, its hopeful anticipation is thoroughly orthodox.
We cannot say all will be saved in the end.
We can say that it is possible that all will be saved in the end, and we should hope and pray for that to be the case.
Universal reconciliation - Wikipedia
-CryptoLutheran
Come on, you have not one grain of evidence for anything you're saying. But because it says in Matthew this or John that, you are convinced.If I could add aiki....we all deserve hell . Believers do not get whatthey deserve...Jesus took what I deserved on the cross....same holds true for primarymay....all ya got to do is ask...”ask and you will receive” spiritual blindness is such a deadly thing.hard to exit the Fools Paradise
Your basically saying the Bible teaches different things.
Who deserves to be there? I can think of no one.
Come on, you have not one grain of evidence for anything you're saying. But because it says in Matthew this or John that, you are convinced.
And you have the audacity to call anyone else foolish, just because they don't believe in John or Matthew.
Many of us believe His punishment *does* result in a complete rehabilitation of souls. The Greek Orthodox call that "apocatastasis"....the root word used in Acts 3:21 and 1st Timothy 2:4.But why can't any type of punishment entail a complete rehabilitation of ones soul.
OrthodoxWiki said:Apocatastasis or apokatastasis (from Greek: ἀποκατάστασις; literally, "restoration" or "return") is the teaching that everyone will, in the end, be saved. It looks toward the ultimate reconciliation of good and evil; all creatures endowed with reason, angels and humans, will eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom. It is based on, among other things, St. Peter's speech in Acts 3.21 ("Christ Jesus who must remain in heaven until the time of the final restoration of all things χρόνων ἀποκαταστάσεως πάντων") and St. Paul's letter to Timothy in which he says that it is God's will that all men should be saved (1 Timothy 2.4).~Apocatastasis - OrthodoxWiki
I'm saying there have been different views, and no singular official view, in the history of the Christian Church. That means there have been different opinions as to what the Bible says, not that the Bible teaches different things.
-CryptoLutheran
I think you're reading into that, that does not say "we all deserve hell"God says every one of us deserves Hell. We have all of us sinned against our Holy Creator; none of us meet His requirements for entrance into His heavenly kingdom.
Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Actually your god did not write one word, men did.If anyone is audacious it must be God....He’s the one that said it. “The foolhath said, there Is no God “ You will never find any evidence in the places you are looking .i think you already know that.the evidence is in changed hearts and lives but you have been blinded by the god of this world.if there existed evidence that would prove the existence of God...people would not have to have the faith that He is looking for."..sorry for the bad news.....there
Is Good News out there for anyone that wants it.
You don't need punishment (Suffering) to encourage change. That is the worst way to help someone rehabilitate.Many of us believe His punishment *does* result in a complete rehabilitation of souls. The Greek Orthodox call that "apocatastasis"....the root word used in Acts 3:21 and 1st Timothy 2:4.
....another similar word is "apokatallasso" used in Colossians 1:20. According to this site,
"The word translated "reconcile" here is apokatallasso <604> from apo <575> meaning either "of separation" or "of origin" and katallasso <2644> meaning "to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value". Further katallasso is a compound of kata <2596> meaning "down from, through out" or "according to, toward, along" and allasso <236> meaning "to change, to exchange one thing for another, to transform".From the Catholic Encyclopedia: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Apocatastasis
In both cases, the verb is in the aorist tense which refers to a particular moment in time. "Continue" in verse 23 is in the present tense. The details of the Greek tenses may be discovered by looking at specific verses on classic.net.bible.org and examining the Strong's numbers under the Greek text."
I fully agree with you. I probably should have placed the word "Punishment" in quotes. It's Orthodox Greek theology that God's love is what changes people (eventually). The parable of the Prodigal Son, IMO, is about the best example we're given in the Bible that I can think of.You don't need punishment (Suffering) to encourage change. That is the worst way to help someone rehabilitate.
You can't see how the Bible says different things about the same subject? It's obvious to me, even when I used to believe. Why it's not obvious (It bloody well is, isn't it!) You just don't want to face it.Right. Some examples would be these verses:
Jesus "did not come to judge the world but to save the WORLD." (John 12:47)
and
"Love NEVER fails." (1 Cor. 13:8)
and
"At the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:10:11)
and
"God was pleased to have all fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself ALL THINGS on earth or in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross. Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation." (Col. 1:19, 21, 22)
and
"So now the righteous requirements necessary for life are met FOR EVERYONE through the righteous act of one person, just as judgment fell on EVERYONE through the failure of one person." (Rom. 5:18)
Not everyone agrees that "everyone" truly means "everyone"....or that "the world" means all of humanity. The text still needs to be interpreted.
That's typically due to context. The Bible is more often descriptive than it is prescriptive. It's more poetry than a news piece. Much is left to interpretation.You can't see how the Bible says different things about the same subject? It's obvious to me, even when I used to believe. Why it's not obvious (It bloody well is, isn't it!) You just don't want to face it.
So there doesn't need to be a hell then.I fully agree with you. I probably should have placed the word "Punishment" in quotes. It's Orthodox Greek theology that God's love is what changes people (eventually). The parable of the Prodigal Son, IMO, is about the best example we're given in the Bible that I can think of.
Nah, it just says different things. That's why there are so many competing doctrines.That's typically due to context. The Bible is more often descriptive than it is prescriptive. It's more poetry than a news piece. Much is left to interpretation.
Amen, brother. We all deserve His wrath, but by His grace through faith we are saved. I am eternally grateful to the One who took my punishment, who paid my debt, that I could spend eternity in His presence.If I could add aiki....we all deserve hell . Believers do not get whatthey deserve...Jesus took what I deserved on the cross....same holds true for primarymay....all ya got to do is ask...”ask and you will receive” spiritual blindness is such a deadly thing.hard to exit the Fools Paradise
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