I did not know where to start the thread. If it is that unorthodox, why are they allowed to post in christian only forums then?
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I did not know where to start the thread. If it is that unorthodox, why are they allowed to post in christian only forums then?Most of the people arguing that side right now do not belong here and I would say this thread most likely doesn't either.
This is true, in many regards.There is just a whole different mind set to those who believe in universal salvation.
This, however, is absolute falsehood in the extreme. Contrary to keeping God in a box of human devising, making Him altogether an one such as ourselves (which traditional vengeance-condoning notions do), our understanding breaks the box apart entirely and permits God to be GOD -- precisely Who He is -- whose ways and thoughts are as high above our own as the heavens are above the earth. (I say this in regard to human perceptions -- obviously NO ONE's notions of God are capable of limiting Him in reality; He always was, is, and always will be exactly Who He Is regardless what man thinks. But it is those who demand that God's sense of "justice" meet and exceed our own darkest desires for vengeance who put Him in a box -- not those who rejoice in and celebrate His awesome power to save and complete work in Christ.)Their God is very small and they keep Him in a box.
There are some things better than "urgency". Faith and hope are two such things. Seeing people come to Christ because of a grasp of the Father's heart of love, rather than out of slavish, selfish fear to escape punishment, is another.This conversation is relevent to eschatology because universalists see little urgency in salvation.
Wrong again, friend. Like your previous statement, this evinces only your utter failure to grasp our position and our understanding in the matter. Please do not presume to speak for a group of people whom you not only do NOT represent, but by your own viewpoint CANNOT represent.While we would have faith in God if all were saved, they, for the most part, would abandon God at the proof of the reality of judgement and eternal torment.
More words that reflect more upon the writer thereof than upon the objects of his ridicule. Speaking of which, I don't recall either granting you permission to state what is and is not "so" about ME nor you taking the time to get to know me sufficiently that you could even PRESUME to do so .....Most of the people arguing that side right now do not belong here and I would say this thread most likely doesn't either.
A proper study of the Greek words aion and aionios is what is needed here. The fact that Greek does not always translate neatly into English does not mean words become meaningless.I already have with revelation 14:11 but then people claim forever doesn't mean forever, making words meaningless.
You thought they said that in order to be a 'Christian' you have to believe in eternal torment?
They use the nicene creed
which I uphold
it doesnt mention eternal torment
and I dont recall any teaching that says one must believe in eternal torment in hell in order to be saved
do you?
Today is the day of salvation, says the bible. people could die at any time.There are some things better than "urgency".
Seeing people come to Christ because of a grasp of the Father's heart of love, rather than out of slavish, selfish fear to escape punishment, is another.
.
I would agree, but let me ask you this... do you believe that hell consists of an eternity of being BBQ'd alive in literal/physical flames of fire?The bible is clear about it.
See what happens when people are allowed to interpret scripture on their own? I'm starting to think the Catholics are right, it turns out much error filled beliefs. The bible can be twisted to make it seem however one wants to believe.
And fear is ~the beginning~ of wisdom, not the end of it. Perfect love casteth out fear, right?Today is the day of salvation, says the bible. people could die at any time.
Not so! The only reason I became spiritually alive is because I read of the rapture and punishment. I did not want that. if I'd read God saves all eventually, I would never have gotten saved, sorry!
God motivated me to get saved, so then He espouses fear.But some are more motivated by Love than fear
kept
No, Sis. For the hardness of our hearts He tolerates those things, but they are not His ultimate plan for us.God motivated me to get saved, so then He espouses fear.
Sorry that some of us don't know love as well as you guys.
This is true, in many regards.
This, however, is absolute falsehood in the extreme. Contrary to keeping God in a box of human devising, making Him altogether an one such as ourselves (which traditional vengeance-condoning notions do), our understanding breaks the box apart entirely and permits God to be GOD -- precisely Who He is -- whose ways and thoughts are as high above our own as the heavens are above the earth. (I say this in regard to human perceptions -- obviously NO ONE's notions of God are capable of limiting Him in reality; He always was, is, and always will be exactly Who He Is regardless what man thinks. But it is those who demand that God's sense of "justice" meet and exceed our own darkest desires for vengeance who put Him in a box -- not those who rejoice in and celebrate His awesome power to save and complete work in Christ.)
There are some things better than "urgency". Faith and hope are two such things. Seeing people come to Christ because of a grasp of the Father's heart of love, rather than out of slavish, selfish fear to escape punishment, is another.
Wrong again, friend. Like your previous statement, this evinces only your utter failure to grasp our position and our understanding in the matter. Please do not presume to speak for a group of people whom you not only do NOT represent, but by your own viewpoint CANNOT represent.
More words that reflect more upon the writer thereof than upon the objects of his ridicule. Speaking of which, I don't recall either granting you permission to state what is and is not "so" about ME nor you taking the time to get to know me sufficiently that you could even PRESUME to do so .....
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