Hell is real

[JimfromOhio]

If "unorthodox" such as universalism allow to post here, I will discontinue to be a CF member.

 

[kept]

Here are some interesting verses juxtiposing saving thru fear and thru Love

Jud 1:20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
Jud 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, eagerly awaiting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to everlasting life.
Jud 1:22 But pity some, making distinction.
Jud 1:23 But save others with fear, snatching them out of the fire; hating even the garment having been stained from the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now to Him being able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you before His glory without blemish, with unspeakable joy;
Jud 1:25 to the only wise God, our Savior, be glory and majesty and might and authority, even now and forever. Amen.

 

[timlamb]

If "unorthodox" such as universalism allow to post here, I will discontinue to be a CF member.

when this is reported the converstion should stop. But we seem to be wanting to clear the air, or stink it up, depending on your position.

 

[icedtea]

Sadly, tim, it is quite the error. Fear does get people saved, its proven. But somehow God would never do anything mean, he'd be a big meanie , just like any judge who puts a killer in jail is a big meanie and not "in love."
I think its some religious fervor that comes upon people, and they fall for this There is no judgment error. Who wants judgment anyway? people who want to do wrong.
Then they get insulting, claiming we aren't advanced enough to understand love, we only understand judgment. Well, God hands out judgment.
Its just sad.

 

[icedtea]

when this is reported the converstion should stop. But we seem to be wanting to clear the air, or stink it up, depending on your position.

Your posts are a breath of logic, and dare I say, Love. No stink there.

 

[kept]

Gods judgements are very much alive for me

I treasure Gods judgment for when His judgements are in the earth

man will learn righteousness

that is a good thing

kept

 

[timlamb]

No, Sis. For the hardness of our hearts He tolerates those things, but they are not His ultimate plan for us.

I don't know it half as well as I'd like to! But I am learning.

Neither did the Children of Israel. All they understood was lightning and thunder and quaking and judgments .... and look where it got them -- smack into repeated disobedience.

There has to be a better way ... and in Christ, there is.

For ALL of us. Not just a "privileged few". You too!

It was not fear that brought them to disobedience, it was when God was breathing down their necks that they minded HIm, in good times they fell away.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Hell is not a popular doctrine, but it’s true. There is a place of separation from God, that the Bible calls hell as eternal death while believers who lives on in eternal life.

Galatians 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

 

[kept]

And please understand

I have not insulted anyone on this thread, I have repeatedly asked for scripture and all I get is insults

I really dont understand that???

(I meant that to Howard's answers to my asking for verses)

kept

 

[holo]

That brings up the point

IF Jesus paid the price for us and the price for our sin

(And I firmly believe that He did and not mine only but the entire world - He is the Savior of the World)

And the price for our sin is eternal torment in hell (please show verses)

then why did Jesus not remain in hell being tormented forever by the angry God that took out His holy justifiable anger on Jesus on the cross?

The reason why Jesus paid for our sin by going thru DEATH is that DEATH is the penalty for sin (death was the penelty for Adam/Eves sin - no where is Adam or Eve told the penelty of sin was to fry in hell)

not some horror chamber of eternal torment

because if it was then its not paid in full

even logic would have to see that ?

kept

That's a good point!

 

[holo]

Today is the day of salvation, says the bible. people could die at any time.

Not so! The only reason I became spiritually alive is because I read of the rapture and punishment. I did not want that. if I'd read God saves all eventually, I would never have gotten saved, sorry!

Only goes to show that God doesn't limit the ways or reasons people come to him.

Love is WHO God IS

I cant relate to ever being saved thru fear

I was set free from drug addiction , healed and delivered by LOVE

Fear was not the tool in Fathers hand for me

but I do understand it is used by a vast majority of christianity

kept

I used to relate to Jesus only out of fear. My only motivation was fear of punishment. It sucked.

 

[angelmom01]

I already have with revelation 14:11 but then people claim forever doesn't mean forever, making words meaningless.

So if a word doesn't have the particular meaning that you think it does then it is "meaningless"?

Aion, even as defined by my Bible concordance, means "an age"; aionios is derived FROM the word aion (which means "an age") and would more accurately mean "perpetual" (not "eternal"). And perpetual happens to be the definition given by Strong's - even though it is translated many times (most times) as "eternal".

So the word does have a meaning (so it's not "meaningless"). It just doesn't mean "eternal".

angelmom

 

[icedtea]

although it does work on those whom need fear to motivate them

But some are more motivated by Love than fear

kept

This is your insults. We are not insulting you, we are pointing out your holier than thou comments. And errors.

 

[kept]

How is it holier than thou

You said yourself you were motivated by fear (when you were born again)

I said I was motivated by love (when I was born again)

I was showing both were REAL

kept

 

[icedtea]

I used to relate to Jesus only out of fear. My only motivation was fear of punishment. It sucked.

As did I BEFORE I was saved. I was in fear because I knew I deserved judgment. NOW I am saved, there is no fear.

 

[kept]

Doesnt that mean that fear drove you to get saved? You were afraid of punishment?

Am I not understanding you?

kept

 

[timlamb]

Sadly, tim, it is quite the error. Fear does get people saved, its proven. But somehow God would never do anything mean, he'd be a big meanie , just like any judge who puts a killer in jail is a big meanie and not "in love."
I think its some religious fervor that comes upon people, and they fall for this There is no judgment error. Who wants judgment anyway? people who want to do wrong.
Then they get insulting, claiming we aren't advanced enough to understand love, we only understand judgment. Well, God hands out judgment.
Its just sad.

How true, God commands a respectful fear. Just as we would fear an employer who we were committing a wrong against, at would expect to lose favor if caught. With God we get away with nothing and those who are not loving God for the forgiveness paid for by Jesus will lose their life eternal.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Love is WHO God IS

I cant relate to ever being saved thru fear

I was set free from drug addiction , healed and delivered by LOVE

Fear was not the tool in Fathers hand for me

but I do understand it is used by a vast majority of christianity

kept

I'm with Kept. Fear never did anything but drive me away and give me a negative view of God and hinder me from receiving His love. God never authored fear with me -- it was the devil who brought it in after I first met the Lord and used it to drive a wedge between God and I and keep me apart from God and hostile to God. In the end, only God's love broke through to fix that. Not once has fear ever done anything but arouse hostility and rejection in me.

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your LOVE and grace which brings true salvation and a true comprehension of Your heart toward us.

 

[angelmom01]

As I said Howard, we have a whole different mindset, as this post proves convincingly.

They think restricting God to mercy and not judgement is freeing or liberating Him, while we see it as resticting His authority.

One thing I learned about the universalist faith after months of debate, is that they all believe very different and anything goes as long as you don't tell them there is eternal punishment. Then they get angry, as evidenced above.

You see that as "anger"? So then if you defend yourself against someone else's accusations of say "mainstream Christianity" that you see as false, it would be "anger" speaking?

angelmom

 

[JimfromOhio]

And please understand

I have not insulted anyone on this thread, I have repeatedly asked for scripture and all I get is insults

I really dont understand that???

(I meant that to Howard's answers to my asking for verses)

kept

• Hell is final. There is no second chance after death. “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

• Hell is everlasting. It never stops. It is “eternal” (Daniel 12:2) and “everlasting” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), and the smoke of their burning goes up “forever and ever” (Revelation 14:11). We moderns may miss this image, since we don’t use fire on a daily basis. As long as the fuel remains, the smoke continues to rise. When the fuel is used up, the smoke stops rising. In hell people are burned, but the smoke keeps rising forever. They burn, but never fully come to an end. Such torment is called “the second death” (Revelation 21:8), where they are forever “outside” the gates of heaven (Revelation 22:15).

• Hell is conscious. No sleeping here, where “there is no rest day or night” (Revelation 14:11). Notice the rich man’s pleadings in Luke 16:19-31. Hell’s victims are conscious.

• Hell is punishment. It’s not “just what happens” to people. It is punishment at the hands of God. It is God’s contempt of people (Daniel 12:2), it is being “condemned” by God, like in a court (John 5:29). It is God’s just “payback” for sins (2 Thessalonians 1:6), when Jesus “will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel.... They will be punished.” (v.8-9).

• Hell is painful. Jesus described it as “the fiery furnace” (Matthew 13:40-42), “the eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41),“the darkness,” “outside” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12). Hell is “the blackest darkness” (Jude 13). Revelation calls it “the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15). Whether hot or cold, bright or dark, all these images are images of extreme suffering.

• People will be condemned to hell at the Second Coming and Day of Judgment. The sentence of hell is given at Jesus’ return (2 Thessalonians 1:7, also Matthew 25:31).

• People suffer in hell even while they await the Second Coming and Judgment Day. “The Lord knows how to... hold the unrighteous for the Day of Judgment, while continuing their punishment” (2Peter 2:9). We also see this in Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), where the rich man was undergoing punishment in hell after his death while his brothers still lived. This is a parable, so it can’t be pressed too far, but Jesus’ parables were taken from real-life situations, including the situation of dying and being held in punishment while awaiting the Day of Judgment.

• God is in hell and punishes people there. The guilty “will be tormented in burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11). The Lamb in Revelation is Jesus. Hell is not so much eternal separation from God as it is the eternal presence of God in unmitigated wrath and fury. Hell is separation from God in the sense of being separated from his blessings and fellowship (2 Thessalonians 1:9). Hell is where we must “drink the wine of God’s fury which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath” (Revelation 14:10).

• Hell is both physical and spiritual. It follows the resurrection of the dead (John 5:28-29), so those who suffer in hell will suffer bodily as well as in spirit. Jesus said it was “better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell” (Matthew 5:30). Hell will be a place for our bodies as well as a condition of our souls. Beware those who make hell sound too ethereal and spiritual.

• Hell is real. This isn’t just language the Bible uses to get a response out of us. Jesus warns us about it because it really does exist and really is our destiny. He loves us enough to warn us in advance.

• Everyone goes to hell. Jesus Christ and those “in Christ” are the only exceptions. All who “do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” are sent to hell (2 Thessalonians 1:8). Those who turn to Jesus are saved. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.... Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already” (John 3:16, 18).

Source: What Does the Bible Actually Teach about Hell?