Where is heaven?"If you are not born again, you cannot even see the kingdom of God."
Many will not be in Heaven, ever.
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Where is heaven?"If you are not born again, you cannot even see the kingdom of God."
Many will not be in Heaven, ever.
EXACTLY!! (in that the fire is not literal flames)Hell is a catch all word we use. As shown in Revelation Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire. I believe the burning to be the burning of the heart for unsatisfied lusts and guilt and anger. Your residence for eternity is a choice made and the torment is self inflicted.
Look up.![]()
The new age says that. What of Jesus' comment, the way i go yee know.the kingdom of God is within you.[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]
The new age says that. What of Jesus' comment, the way i go yee know.
HowardDean,I will come and take you where I am, I have prepared a place for you.
Nope, Heaven is a place, not inside us.
OK.I still disagree.![]()
this is a great post for me.simple expression yet meaningful.God bless!Let's fight 'til the end.Atheists accuse God of torture when it comes to this doctrine. I have not come to a complete conclusion about whether or not any being created by God will be tortured by eternal fire or not, as only He would be able to judge the appropriate judgment for His own creation. However, this article is very convncing and explains where some Greek words have been made to look like they intend eternal when they mark a specific time in which a task is to be completed - such as "eon". A link at the end gives the full study.
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9.
Answer: There is not one single soul in hellfire today. The Bible says that God reserves, or holds back, the wicked until the day of judgment to be
When will sinners be cast into hellfire?
"So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.
Answer: Sinners will be cast into hellfire at the great judgment day at the end of the world--not when they die. God would not punish a person in fire until his case was tried and decided in court at the end of the world. Nor would God burn a murderer who died 5,000 years ago 5,000 years longer than one who dies and deserves punishment for the same sin today.
Where are sinners (who have died) now?
"The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28, 29. "The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30, 32.
Answer: The Bible is specific. Both the wicked and the righteous who have died are in their graves "sleeping" until the resurrection day.
What is the end result of sin?
"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23. "Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15. "God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
Answer: The wages (or punishment) for sin is death, not everlasting life in hellfire. The wicked "perish," or receive "death." The righteous receive "everlasting life."
What will happen to the wicked in hellfire?
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.
Answer: The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible, because the Bible says God "only hath immortality." 1 Timothy 6:16. When Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, an angel was posted to guard the tree of life so that sinners would not eat of the tree and "live for ever." Genesis 3:22-24. The teaching that sinners are immortal in hell originated with Satan and is completely untrue. God prevented this when sin entered this earth by guarding the tree of life.
Bible Clear--Wicked Obliterated
The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9). Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.
When and how hellfire kindled?
"So shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man ... shall cast them into a furnace of fire." Matthew 13:40-42. "They went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9. "The righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner." Proverbs 11:31.
Answer: At the end of the world, God Himself will kindle hellfire. As the holy city comes down from God out of heaven (Revelation 21:2), the wicked attempt to capture it. At that time, God will rain down fire from heaven upon the earth, and it will devour the wicked. This fire is Bible hellfire.
How big and hot the fire?
"The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10
Answer: Hellfire will be just as big as this earth because it will be the earth on fire. This fire will be so hot as to melt the earth and burn up all "the works that are therein." The atmospheric heavens will explode and "pass away with a great noise."
How long will the wicked suffer in the fire?
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12. "And then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matthew 16:27. "That servant, which knew his lord's will, and ... neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." Luke 12:47, 48.
Answer: The Bible does not tell how long the wicked will be punished before receiving death in the fire. God does specifically state, however, that all will be punished according to their deeds. This means some will receive greater punishment than others, based upon their works.
Will the fire eventually go out?
"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." Isaiah 47:14. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:1, 4.
Answer: Yes, indeed, the Bible specifically teaches that hellfire will go out and that there will not be left "a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it." The Bible also teaches that in God's new kingdom all "former things" will be passed away. Hell, being one of the former things, is included, so we have God's promise that it will be abolished.
Is God a Torturer?
If God tortured His enemies in a fiery horror chamber throughout eternity, He would be more vicious and heartless than men have ever been in the worst of war atrocities. An eternal hell of torment would be hell for God also, who loves even the vilest sinner.
What will be left when the fire goes out?
"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3.
Answer: Notice the verse does not say the wicked will burn like asbestos, as many today believe, but rather like stubble, which will be burned up. The little word "up" denotes completion. Nothing but ashes will be left when the fire goes out. In Psalms 37:10, 20, the Bible says the wicked will go up in smoke and be completely destroyed.
There is mu h more that goes in and examines the original Greek words a this site: http://www.bibleuniversity.com/University/PrintLesson.asp
http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Book.asp?SelLang=en&ID=51
LOOK WITHIN!![]()
Luk 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Rom 10:6-10 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word ~is nigh thee~, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: ~THAT IS~, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt CONFESS ~with thy mouth~ the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE ~in thine heart~ that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For ~with the heart ~man believeth unto righteousness; and ~with the mouth~ confession is made unto salvation.
That explains this:
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Jam 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and ~setteth on fire the course of nature~; and it is set on fire of hell.
angelmom
The new age says that. What of Jesus' comment, the way i go yee know.
I will come and take you where I am, I have prepared a place for you.
Nope, Heaven is a place, not inside us.
HowardDean,
The kingdom of God ~is~ the kingdom of heaven. The terms are used interchangeably in scripture. Do you not agree?
Christ said "the kingdom of God is within you". Correct?
So then it is also true that "the kingdom of heaven is within you". Wouldn't you say?
We are not talking "new age" philosophy here; we are talking scripture. That is why I quoted scripture.
Christ's kingdom has no end and it will be delivered up to the Father once the last enemy (death) is destroyed and we will live in the presence of God for all eternity, but that does not negate the fact that the kingdom is within us even now.
When Christ said he was going to prepare a place for us so that where he was we could be also he was speaking to his disciples about the Comforter/Holy Spirit. Was he not? (John 14)
Joh 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
How does he come again to receive us unto himself so that where he is we may be also? He answers that himself:
Joh 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, AND I IN YOU.
We are where he is because he comes to us. WE are the "many mansions" that are in the Fathers house.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Chirst is seated at the right hand of God in the heavens. (Mark 16:14)
He and the Father come to make their abode is you. (John 14:23)
The the kingdom of God/Heaven is within you. (Luke 17:21)
angelmom
John 14 is speaking about THE COMFORTER... read the whole chapter "in context".Angelmom, with all do resepct, you are taking scripture out of context.![]()
We are not the many mansions. We are God's sons and daughters because of Jesus Christ. John 14:2-3 is taking about His return.
I Corinthians 3:16 is referring to how we are to glorify God with our bodies by taking care of it and keeping it clean, spiritually and physically. Be holy as God is holy. We are also to be good stewards of all that is given to us by God, including our bodies.
many people seem to leave that part out.![]()
And the way of life IS ABOVE to the wise...Heaven is not in you. The Righteous (Jesus Christ) is. Heaven is the final place saints of God go when He says "Come up here."
As far as the scriptures you gave, it's good to consider what is before and after each verse.![]()
But this thread is about hell and people who go there afterwards.I am talking about a spiritual truth that exists NOW, not what happens in eternity.
And YOU said:But this thread is about hell and people who go there afterwards.
HowardDean said:"If you are not born again, you cannot even see the kingdom of God."
Many will not be in Heaven, ever.
John 14 is speaking about THE COMFORTER... read the whole chapter "in context".
Christ DOES come.
Ever heard of "Chirst IN YOU our hope of glory".
Ever heard of Paul telling them that he TRAVIALED IN BIRTH with them "UNTIL Christ be formed IN YOU"
Christ says (when speaking about sending the HS/Comfoter) ~I~ will not leave you comfortless ~I~ will come to you... and in that day you will know that I am in that Father and he in me and I IN YOU.
HE COMES!! Not only HE but that Father also, with THE HOLY SPIRIT. They are ONE GOD.
And we are the temple(s) of God.
I am talking about a spiritual truth that exists NOW, not what happens in eternity.
the kingdon OF GOD (the same as the kingdom OF HEAVEN) is WITHIN YOU.
That is a direct quote from CHRIST, how can you deny that?![]()
angelmom