Hell As Purgative?

[caffeinated hermit]

Posted In The Eastern Orthodox Sub-Forum

Is there any room within Eastern Orthodoxy for a hope that Hell is temporary and purgative, or a hope in Universal Reconciliation in some other way?

I am vaguely aware of Eastern Orthodox thinkers like Sergei Bulgakov and David Bentley Hart who espouse or seem to espouse Universalism. So could such a belief be validly held by an Eastern Orthodox Christian?

Thank you.

 

[Lukaris]

Hi Hermit,

Here is a link to a short essay by Fr Lawrence Farley that there is no universal salvation. Fr Lawrence is a prominent modern ( as in current) Orthodox author of several study books on Romans, letters to the Corinthians etc.

Fr Lawrence article:

Will Everyone Eventually Be Saved?

When they are in fashion, fads are never recognized as fads. Those under their influence and promoting them feel that they have come across “An Important New Truth,” or (if Orthodox) “An Important But Neglected Part of Our Tradition.” Recognizing them as fads would only serve to dismiss them...

www.oca.org

Info on Fr Lawrence:

Fr. Lawrence R. Farley | Ancient Faith Ministries

God says the good will be saved & the evil lost. We believe there are good & evil among all of us but only God knows who in particular. God so loved us ( John 3:16-21 etc).We should pray for all ( 1 Timothy 2:1-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, etc.) as per the Lord’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40 etc.), the golden rule ( Matthew 7:1-12 etc).

 

[caffeinated hermit]

@Lukaris , thank you. So, then, is it possible to at least hope that all will be saved?

And... what of voices within Eastern Orthodoxy who express a belief that all will be saved? Are such voices formally condemned, or are they kind of tolerated? What of the seemingly UR-friendly writings of some recognized saints?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So, then, is it possible to at least hope that all will be saved?

yes, but no more than that

 

[caffeinated hermit]

yes, but no more than that

Ok, thank you, Father. So... not to be a jerk, but... if it is ok to hope that all may be saved, theologically, why is it condemned to believe that all will be saved if such an outcome is at least something we can hope in?

And is it possible within Orthodoxy to believe (or at least hope) that Hell is purgative and temporary rather than eternal?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ok, thank you, Father. So... not to be a jerk, but... if it is ok to hope that all may be saved, theologically, why is it condemned to believe that all will be saved if such an outcome is at least something we can hope in?

And is it possible within Orthodoxy to believe (or at least hope) that Hell is purgative and temporary rather than eternal?

it’s condemned because we don’t know. only God knows. so we can’t say we believe all will be saved because God has not revealed that yet.

hell is purgative, but if you eternally hold on to your sin, that purging fire burns you eternally.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

it’s condemned because we don’t know. only God knows. so we can’t say we believe all will be saved because God has not revealed that yet.

hell is purgative, but if you eternally hold on to your sin, that purging fire burns you eternally.

Ok, thank you. That... kind of makes sense. So... if Hell is purgative only if a soul eternally holds on to sin, then, theoretically, could (according to EO theology) a soul repent from within Hell and be delivered from it?

I know the EO don't believe in Purgatory as such, but would it be fair / appropriate to say that Hell is Purgatory-like for some souls and eternal for others?

Ok, one more thing, sorry, what of some of the Saints who seem to hint at UR? I don't know that they've been condemned for their optimistic statements, so why would a contemporary EO layman be condemned for similar directness and optimism?

( Not every quote here is from a person recognized as an EO Saint (like, there's a lot of Origen), but some are. )

Thank you, Father, for taking the time to go through all this stuff and answer.

 

[ArmyMatt]

soul repent from within Hell and be delivered from it?

no, because they are beyond physical mortality.

Ok, one more thing, sorry, what of some of the Saints who seem to hint at UR? I don't know that they've been condemned for their optimistic statements, so why would a contemporary EO layman be condemned for similar directness and optimism?

most of those lived prior to universalism’s formal condemnation. those espousing it today do not. but I will also say it’s also a nuanced issue for many Fathers, since sometimes when they speak of universalism, they are speaking of the destruction of death, which isn’t the same thing as universalism in the modern, academic sense.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

no, because they are beyond physical mortality.

Ok, but... If Hell is Purgative, doesn't that mean that something is being purged / burned away and the end result is reconciliation with God? How can something be purgative and yet also be eternal?

most of those lived prior to universalism’s formal condemnation. those espousing it today do not. but I will also say it’s also a nuanced issue for many Fathers, since sometimes when they speak of universalism, they are speaking of the destruction of death, which isn’t the same thing as universalism in the modern, academic sense.

Ok, interesting. Question : if death is destroyed, does that mean that Hell itself is destroyed, or are those two completely different concepts.

Ok, one more question, sorry. Some Catholic theologians have stated that each soul is given sufficient grace to respond to God and be saved, and some Catholic Saints' writings have indicated that each soul, at the moment of death, is given the chance to know and respond to Christ (I think Saint Faustina's diary says something like this). Does Eastern Orthodoxy have similar ideas or beliefs?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ok, but... If Hell is Purgative, doesn't that mean that something is being purged / burned away and the end result is reconciliation with God? How can something be purgative and yet also be eternal?

what if you hate being purged and you want what is being purged away?

Ok, interesting. Question : if death is destroyed, does that mean that Hell itself is destroyed, or are those two completely different concepts.

it depends on what you mean. Hell’s power is destroyed, but if I fight against God eternal blessings, His blessings become Hell.

Ok, one more question, sorry. Some Catholic theologians have stated that each soul is given sufficient grace to respond to God and be saved, and some Catholic Saints' writings have indicated that each soul, at the moment of death, is given the chance to know and respond to Christ (I think Saint Faustina's diary says something like this). Does Eastern Orthodoxy have similar ideas or beliefs?

yes, everyone everyday is given every thing they need to be saved. no one is damned because of their ignorance.

 

[caffeinated hermit]

What if you hate being purged and you want what is being purged away?

It depends on what you mean. Hell’s power is destroyed, but if I fight against God eternal blessings, His blessings become Hell.

Yes, everyone everyday is given every thing they need to be saved. No one is damned because of their ignorance.

Ok, thank you. So... something can be purgative yet not heal us if we're not willing to turn away from the dross. Wouldn't purgation eventually lead to everything being burned away and the soul in a state where Christ can be said "yes" to? Could / would the soul in that state still resist Christ?