Hell and Sadists

[Dyrwen]

A question arose in my mind and others I know recently that I thought I'd ask, reflect on, and post about.

How does one attempt to strike a reason to avoid Hell for Sadists & Masochists? I know quite a few people that reason, "Heaven beats the alternative" but what fear of the alternative is there if you don't fear pain? Infact, gain pleasure from pain. Sure, one might say, "You just won't get pain," but then it'd just be normal and livable. No problems at all.

Seemingly the threat of Hell is no different than Heaven in their case. Sure, God could possibly inflict some sort of bad feeling on them they don't truly feel but would anyways, but seriously, free-will wise this seems like a complication.

I realized it awhile back when I thought, I enjoy pain, Hell is eternal pain, Heaven is all that you enjoy. Where is the downside again?

Just a thought...

 

[InnerPhyre]

Hell isn't physical pain. It's the pain and mental anguish that comes from complete seperation from God. Eternal despair.

 

[Dyrwen]

Not just physical pain makes masochists and sadists happy mind you, I happen to thrive from pessimism and not expecting the good to come from a situation.

Emotional trauma isn't anything horrible for some people, it's more of a release and feeling, which certainly beats feeling nothing at all, but if one did feel nothing at all, it'd still be quite livable.

 

[Dyrwen]

No one can answer this fun little loop hole in God's equation eh?

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Well, since I am one who lately has has no qualms about throwing the LDS perspective into the mix, here is my take on Hell.

Yes, I agree with the earlier post about the pangs of Hell resulting from a separation from God. We believe God to be our Heavenly Father, so losing contact with Him will be, as we believe, a miserable existance.

We also learn that if we live worthy, repent and are made whole thru Christ, we will be exhaulted to a state of eternal progression, where we will have the opportunity to create our own heavenly children, worlds and learn eternally from our Heavenly Father. We will not only enjoy His presence, but we will have eternal increase in family, knowledge and joy.

We believe in three degrees of heaven, as Paul discusses in 1 Corinthians, chapter 15. The Celestial glory is where Heavenly Father resides with those who are worthy.

The two others, Telestial and Terrestrial will be glorious... but those there will not have opportunity for eternal progression. Basically, they are stunted for learning and growth.

In this life, so many wise people understand and appreciate the joy of learning and expanding their minds. To myself, and my beliefs, this is what Heaven is about--- learning and growing alongside our Heavenly Father. I do not consider it blasphemous, for we will never outgrow Him, He will always be our Father, always be our God.

But to lose out on that opportunity---and know eternally that the opportunity was lost---will be hell... even in a glorious setting. Fire, brimstone, eternal torment is felt within.

 

[arizona_sunshine]

Not just physical pain makes masochists and sadists happy mind you, I happen to thrive from pessimism and not expecting the good to come from a situation.

Emotional trauma isn't anything horrible for some people, it's more of a release and feeling, which certainly beats feeling nothing at all, but if one did feel nothing at all, it'd still be quite livable.

So, tell me. What is this emotional trauma on which you thrive?

I dont understand that perspective in the least...

 

[spike]

Not just physical pain makes masochists and sadists happy mind you, I happen to thrive from pessimism and not expecting the good to come from a situation.

Emotional trauma isn't anything horrible for some people, it's more of a release and feeling, which certainly beats feeling nothing at all, but if one did feel nothing at all, it'd still be quite livable.

Evening, Dyrwen~

Sadists probably should not be included in your scenario, since, by definition, they enjoy doling pain out to others, and do not necessarily revel in having it applied to themselves. Perhaps the Adversary will have a staff position open for them upon their arrival, but they're going to hate the working conditions nonetheless.

Secondly~

I can assure you that whatever percieved pleasure someone might feel in dwelling upon the pessimistic, it will not remain a pleasure for long. Slowly, the condition and perspective leads to a tortured existence that yields nothing but a miserable state of being. And, although the person experiencing it may be within their 'comfort zone' and unable to move beyond and progress after so many years of keeping themselves within this 'safe' position, it is important to consider that 'comfortability' with a situation (i.e. not willing or able to change it) does not equal 'pleasure'. You can only 'release' so much until you're 'spent' - and if you are constantly being replenished with difficult emotional forces that need to be released, then you are not in a situation that you will relish for long.

You'll have to trust me on this one. I could provide an excellent example or two.

All in all, I think that the sadist has a better chance of coming out of this one with any sense of intactness, but even their end days will be miserable. Regardless, I'm not sure that I've seen any convincing arguments to move them into the midset of wanting to 'go to Heaven', either.

-spike-

 

[Dyrwen]

So, tell me. What is this emotional trauma on which you thrive?

I dont understand that perspective in the least...

Well, one can't expect the perspective to be understood really. I can say "Snickers" bars make me happier than anything else in the world but if you hate Snickers you can't exactly "get" that perspective I have.

Pessimism has been in my life since the start, I even see it as optimism nowadays. The possible bad can still be good, just as pain can still feel good, so can life. No matter the outcome, it remains good even when it's supposedly bad. The emotional losses of another can be a good powerful hate or a moving depression. Either way, any emotion beats no emotion at all. It all becomes so apathetic in feeling at times that really a life in Hell with pain would beat a life without any pain at all, and if life were without pain even then the numb nothingness that is Hell wouldn't be much to fear, more just dislike and become slowed by.

All I can say is I've yet to find a downside to any afterlife, no matter what or how it is achieved as of late.

Sadists probably should not be included in your scenario, since, by definition, they enjoy doling pain out to others, and do not necessarily revel in having it applied to themselves. Perhaps the Adversary will have a staff position open for them upon their arrival, but they're going to hate the working conditions nonetheless.

Well, usually masochists enjoy pain brought upon themselves by themselves. Just wasn't sure if being a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] was also enjoying the pain brought on by others, now I know.

All in all, I think that the sadist has a better chance of coming out of this one with any sense of intactness, but even their end days will be miserable. Regardless, I'm not sure that I've seen any convincing arguments to move them into the midset of wanting to 'go to Heaven', either.

That was all I needed to see. Heh. Quite frankly the usual perception of Hell never struck me as a bad thing in any sense. More of an annoyance. I mean, you're there forever, no point in writhing in pain and being all ****y about it. You're not getting out of it, might as well accept "I'm in Hell, forever. But hey, nice view.." I suppose God could remove one's optimism to better server the pains of Hell, but really doesn't seem to have much chance of working there.

The ways in which Hell occurs have never made a lot of sense and aren't obviously meant to be understood, I'd usual side with a type of Christian on this side when they say Hell was just a metaphor. Although the be "separated from God" as a punishment would be more of a waste of time on atheists and even putting them closer to God wouldn't hurt them a bit. All seems a bit circular in trying to inflict punishment for some silly sin or life decision.

 

[InnerPhyre]

It's not about inflicting punishment....its about what choice we make in life. For God or against God. C.S. Lewis put it best when he said something along the lines of "There are two kinds of people on this earth. Those who look at God and say 'Thy will be done' and those to whom God says 'Thy will be done.' God condemns no one." Saying an atheist being seperated from God would not be painful because he or she doesn't believe in God isn't accurate. If you're in hell, then you are no longer an atheist. You have seen God and have seen what you will now be without for eternity. Everything the atheist held as his or her own "truth" would be revealed false in the light of God's truth, so any attitude you might have had going in wouldn't really apply. But hey, if the atheists are right then there's nothing but oblivion....I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Dyrwen]

The attitude of your beliefs would continue to hold even after being proven false. The existence of gods are rarely a thing of point or purpose, but the reason they exist are the questions we seek answered. To be in Hell or Heaven would answer the question of existence and show the reason they exist as well, thereby answering one's inquiries about gods as well as being able to know how they work seeing as you're now being acted on by them.

Either way, seems just seeing yourself as wrong would merely make you go "darn, wrong guess" like all the other religious people. Nothing to get all bent out of shape over at death. heh.. can't change it then anyways.