Hebrews Sabbath rest, how do you read it?

[LoveGodsWord]

You want to get to the loving one another without the cross, it doesn't work that way. I never hear it from you, Christ and him crucified is not that hard of a doctrine to wrap your mind around. It establishes the Law in our hearts through new birth, God choosing us in the beloved and receiving the Holy Spirit of promise. You really will never get around that.

Please do not make up things brother no one is saying to you. It is a little dishonest. I have shared JESUS with you all through our discussions here. You cannot be born again without him or walk in his Spirit by missing the Cross and seeking him in repentance and forgiveness.

In fact it is only God's LAW that leads us to the cross that is why I share it *GALATIANS 3:20. It shows us who we are and that there is nothing that we can do to save ourselves. It leads us to the foot of the cross without excuse full of sin, where all we can do is come to JESUS just as we are to soley rely on the promises of God's WORD for salvation.

I am always happy to talk about JESUS and the cross. You can only know it however through God's WORD and God's LAW as it is God's LAW that leads us there. There is nothing to get around it is by their fruit you will know if someone is from God or not under the NEW COVEANANT.

 

[klutedavid]

You know brother what I find quite funny here is that you have made a post that does not respond to the post and the scriptures in them that you are supposedly replying to which was about known and unknown sin. Anyhow brother all good lets see what you have this time and compare your claims to God's WORD.

Your claim here this time is that "The only part of the Law of Sinai Jesus repeats as a requirement is the Shema, to love God with all your heart soul and strength and you neighbor as yourself."

Now lets examine if your first claim is true? While JESUS does focus on LOVE does he separate LOVE from the keeping of God's Commandments? This is somthing that we should also consider.

What you have said however is partly correct. Jesus did indeed focus on the inside out and love saying in MATTHEW 5:20 For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Take a look a little further in relation to the inside out in MATTHEW 5:21 it says [21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: v22, But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Then we read in MATTHEW 5:27-28 just a little further, [27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery:[28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

So brother what is are these LAWS that JESUS is referring to here in relation to the inside out? Are they the LAW of LOVE to God and man or the 10 Commandments? You will find your answer in EXODUS 20:13 and EXODUS 20:14 from the 10 Commandments

Jesus is quoting the 10 commandments and applying them to the inside out.

Now let's look at the CONTEXT of MATTHEW 5:21-28. These scriptures we have just looked at that show JESUS applying the 10 COMMANDMENTS to the inside out (the heart).

MATTHEW 5:17-19
[17], Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
[18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What law is it that JESUS is refering to if we are discussing MURDER and ADULTERY a little further on and applying these scriptures to the inside out (the heart)? Yep you guessed it the Torah which includes the 10 commandments.

So brother back to the claim you made earlier. Is JESUS ONLY talking about LOVE in the NEW TESTAMENT or is he also talking about the 10 commandments?

Let's look at little further and see what else JESUS says?

MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.

NOTE: What commandments is JESUS now talking about? The Shema (LOVE) or the 10 commandments? Let's read on...

[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
[19], Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[20], The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[21], Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
[22], But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Note: JESUS is LINKS both the SHEMA LOVE with the 10 COMMANDMENTS. WHY? BECAUSE LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's 10 Commandments and is why JESUS says if you LOVE me keep my commandments. LOVE is expressed in OBEDIENCE to God's LAW. If you LOVE your neighbore you will not steal from them, you will not lie to them or kill them right? You cannot separate LOVE from OBEDIENCE to God's LAW because OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is the very expression of what LOVE is.

Let's look at some more scriptures...

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets. .

NOTE: brother can you see your error here? JESUS does not separate LOVE from God's LAW because LOVE is expressed through OBEDIENCE to God's LAW. This is the NEW COVENANT "
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts *HEBREWS 8:10.

CAN YOU SEPARATE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS FROM LOVE?

Jesus says in MATTHEW 22...

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

NOTE: Jesus when asked this question from the Lawyer is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Finishes by saying that on the two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets.

What does v40 mean?

LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
[27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.
[28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

NOTE: The lawyer knew what it means to love God and love his neighbore. How? Notice the question that the lawyer starts os by asking Jesus; "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?". Now notice that the very same question is asked again and look how Jesus answers...

MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, YOU SHALL DO NO MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT LIE, [19], HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.
Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

NOTE: Notice in that the question from the rich young ruler is the very same question as asked by the lawyer "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?" but both were answered by Jesus in a different way. When the Lawer asked the question he answered his own question by saying LOVE to GOD and LOVE to his neighbor (from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Jesus said he answered correctly. When the rich yound ruler asked the same question Jesus answered by saying keep the 10 Commandments and starts out quoting them as his duty of LOVE to his neighbor.

Is this a contradiction of scripture? In no way the answer has already been given in MATTHEW 22:36-40. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MAN) HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOUR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbor...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law.

Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

...................

CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets].

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you JESUS links God's LAW to LOVE as LOVE is the very expression of it to God and man. Can you see your error here brother?

Hope this helps.

Brother please see the post above yours and the scriptures in them. You cannot repent of something you do not know is a sin until you know it is sin *JAMES 4:17. If someone is a new Christian and following God by living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them, then they are God's people ACTS 17:30. If we reject God's WORD to continue in known unrepentant sin than we will not enter God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Please feel free to address all the scriptures provided to you in post # 171 linked above yours that disagree with you.

Just wondering whether you still sin?

Are your sins the same sins, that you commit over and over again?

Confessing sin is one of the more difficult aspects of the Christian life.

How do you reconcile your continuous sin, with your doctrine of known unrepentant sin?

 

[klutedavid]

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you JESUS links God's LAW to LOVE as LOVE is the very expression of it to God and man. Can you see your error here brother?

Hope this helps.

Hello, not much help, perhaps even troubling.

Here is what you posted.

Romans 13
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law.

This is how you read verse ten, 'love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law'. You added the word, 'DOING', to place emphasis on an obedience to the law.

Why did you pay special attention to this part of that verse? What is wrong with the plain reading of that verse?

 

[liberty of conscience]

This is how you read verse ten, 'love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law'. You added the word, 'DOING', to place emphasis on an obedience to the law.

If I may ask, what definition do have for 'fulfil'?

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Here is the Bible's definition:

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

1Ki 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Here it is again:

Exo_5:13 And the taskmasters hasted them, saying, Fulfil your works, your daily tasks, as when there was straw.

Again:

1Ch_22:13 Then shalt thou prosper, if thou takest heed to fulfil the statutes and judgments which the LORD charged Moses with concerning Israel: be strong, and of good courage; dread not, nor be dismayed.

Again:

Psa 148:8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:

Thus it means to carry out by work, deed, to the full extent that which was given to do.

Lam_2:17 The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.

This verse is in parallelism.

Again:

Mat_26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Therefore, read most carefully:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Are you suggesting that "fulfill" doesn't mean to obey in spirit (heart) and in truth (deed (doing)):

Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

???

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Just wondering whether you still sin? Are your sins the same sins, that you commit over and over again? Confessing sin is one of the more difficult aspects of the Christian life. How do you reconcile your continuous sin, with your doctrine of known unrepentant sin?

All I can do without him is sin for I am a sinner. Who am I that he should love me? I love him because he loves me but now I walk by faith in him that loves me and abide in him and he in me. His commands are his promises to me so I can follow him and walk in him and he in me.

The victory that overcomes the world is only found in him and he is the Word that creates all things and works in those who believe. Those that do not believe are still in their sins and do not know him. He bids me come, now I walk in his Spirit. Without him I can do nothing. In him I can do all things because he strengthens me to walk in his Spirit.

There is only life in the living Word. If you have faith all things are possible if you believe. No I do not continue in known unrepentant sin over and over because he has cleansed me from it.

Do I have tempteation to sin yes I do everyday. Am I perfect? No I am a sinner still growing in God's grace. Do I hope to grow to be more like him every day? This is my hope? Can I do this? Absolutely not. Can he do this in me? Absolutely! God's WORD is his power to save us from our sins so that we can walk as he walked.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello, not much help, perhaps even troubling.

Here is what you posted.

This is how you read verse ten, 'love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law'. You added the word, 'DOING', to place emphasis on an obedience to the law.

Why did you pay special attention to this part of that verse? What is wrong with the plain reading of that verse?

Just adding on to Brother liberties good post. The Greek word used here for fulfilling v10 is πλήρωμα; plērōma which means to fill up to complete Love is the completing of God's LAW reference to action and doing. Context is shown also in v8 fulfilled which a slightly different Greek word πληρόω; plēroō which means to execute or carry out. Both GREEK words in the CONTEXT of the scriptures [Most important with application of the Greek words used] read...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled [πληρόω; plēroō executed to carry out] the law.

NOTE: Now note what comes next in the passages demonstrating context is the doing or executing...

[9], For this, [or because of this; LOVE fulfilling the law; or Love does not..] You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor [how? by fulfilling the requirements of the law]: therefore love is the fulfilling [πλήρωμα; plērōma completing, doing] of the law.

Context before and after the Greek words πλήρωμα; plērōma and πληρόω; plēroō is OBEDIENCE to God's Commandments [by completing, fulfilling, executing, doing]. This is the sign of the NEW COVENANT written in *HEBREWS 8:7-12 or God's LAW written on the heart through faith that works by LOVE.

Hope this helps.

 

[ace of hearts]

You may need to exaplin yourself better brother. What are you talking about?

Someone having the number of posts you do means you've been here for a while. It's hard for me considering the topic of this forum and the discussion I read here for you to not know very well what I'm talking about. But then I also notice the contents of posts you respond to are often ignored.

 

[ace of hearts]

Indeed then you agree that there is no excuse for anyone who continues in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin (breaking any of God's commandments) because they reject the gift of God's dear son *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ROMANS 6:23.

Those who come to Jesus aren't rejecting God's free gift you required to be earned by keeping the sabbath.

 

[ace of hearts]

So you believe that those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will be saved? Sorry brother God's Word does not teach lawlessness. In fact it says those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not KNOW GOD and will be lost *1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-27 because by doing so they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

Christians aren't required to keep that covenant. To do so would mean rejecting the acceptance of a contradictory covenant.

 

[ace of hearts]

Brother please see the post above yours and the scriptures in them. You cannot repent of something you do not know is a sin until you know it is sin *JAMES 4:17. If someone is a new Christian and following God by living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them, then they are God's people ACTS 17:30. If we reject God's WORD to continue in known unrepentant sin than we will not enter God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27. Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. Please feel free to address all the scriptures provided to you in post # 171 linked above yours that disagree with you.

Keeping or not the 7th day sabbath isn't called sin in the NT for the Christian. The only violators were unbelieving Jews.

 

[ace of hearts]

Please do not make up things brother no one is saying to you. It is a little dishonest. I have shared JESUS with you all through our discussions here. You cannot be born again without him or walk in his Spirit by missing the Cross and seeking him in repentance and forgiveness.

In fact it is only God's LAW that leads us to the cross that is why I share it *GALATIANS 3:20. It shows us who we are and that there is nothing that we can do to save ourselves. It leads us to the foot of the cross without excuse full of sin, where all we can do is come to JESUS just as we are to soley rely on the promises of God's WORD for salvation.

I am always happy to talk about JESUS and the cross. You can only know it however through God's WORD and God's LAW as it is God's LAW that leads us there. There is nothing to get around it is by their fruit you will know if someone is from God or not under the NEW COVEANANT.

You clearly promote no law keeping - no salvation. The Gospels don't promote that.

 

[ace of hearts]

If I may ask, what definition do have for 'fulfil'?

Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Here is the Bible's definition:

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

1Ki 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Here it is again:

Exo_5:13 And the taskmasters hasted them, saying, Fulfil your works, your daily tasks, as when there was straw.

Again:

1Ch_22:13 Then shalt thou prosper, if thou takest heed to fulfil the statutes and judgments which the LORD charged Moses with concerning Israel: be strong, and of good courage; dread not, nor be dismayed.

Again:

Psa 148:8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:

Thus it means to carry out by work, deed, to the full extent that which was given to do.

Lam_2:17 The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.

This verse is in parallelism.

Again:

Mat_26:56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Therefore, read most carefully:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Are you suggesting that "fulfill" doesn't mean to obey in spirit (heart) and in truth (deed (doing)):

Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

???

Evidently you don't seem top believe in substitutionary atonement as taught by sacrifice in the OT.

 

[ace of hearts]

Just adding on to Brother liberties good post. The Greek word used here for fulfilling v10 is πλήρωμα; plērōma which means to fill up to complete Love is the completing of God's LAW reference to action and doing. Context is shown also in v8 fulfilled which a slightly different Greek word πληρόω; plēroō which means to execute or carry out. Both GREEK words in the CONTEXT of the scriptures [Most important with application of the Greek words used] read...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled [πληρόω; plēroō executed to carry out] the law.

NOTE: Now note what comes next in the passages demonstrating context is the doing or executing...

[9], For this, [or because of this; LOVE fulfilling the law; or Love does not..] You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor [how? by fulfilling the requirements of the law]: therefore love is the fulfilling [πλήρωμα; plērōma completing, doing] of the law.

Context before and after the Greek words πλήρωμα; plērōma and πληρόω; plēroō is OBEDIENCE to God's Commandments [by completing, fulfilling, executing, doing]. This is the sign of the NEW COVENANT written in *HEBREWS 8:7-12 or God's LAW written on the heart through faith that works by LOVE.

Hope this helps.

I desperately need you to explain how being delivered from the law means keeping the law.

 

[mark kennedy]

Please do not make up things brother no one is saying to you. It is a little dishonest. I have shared JESUS with you all through our discussions here. You cannot be born again without him or walk in his Spirit by missing the Cross and seeking him in repentance and forgiveness.

In fact it is only God's LAW that leads us to the cross that is why I share it *GALATIANS 3:20. It shows us who we are and that there is nothing that we can do to save ourselves. It leads us to the foot of the cross without excuse full of sin, where all we can do is come to JESUS just as we are to soley rely on the promises of God's WORD for salvation.

I am always happy to talk about JESUS and the cross. You can only know it however through God's WORD and God's LAW as it is God's LAW that leads us there. There is nothing to get around it is by their fruit you will know if someone is from God or not under the NEW COVEANANT.

Of course repentance is part of the New Testament revelation, the New Testament describes this at length. The fact that you are a sinner has to be revealed to you (Romans 1:18-20), and is. The word of God is described by Jesus as a seed, the soil the seed falls on might be too hard for it to take root, or too shallow for it to mature and bear fruit, it can be crowded out by the cares of this life and deceitfulness of riches described as weeds. Once you receive this seed, that is the basis for conversion, it is impossible if you are enlightened:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age. (Hebrews 6:4-5)​

To be restored to repentance.

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:6)
​

If you 'fall away'.

This idea of 'enlightenment' is simply the light of New Testament revelation, John puts special emphasis on the light that has come into the world, but men have loved darkness more then light. That enlightenment isn't the same as the ten commandments even though the Law did testify to the righteousness of God. The Law came through Moses as John tells us, but grace and truth came through Christ:

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (John 1:17-18)
​

You will not get the gospel of Jesus Christ from the Law or the Prophets, even though all the prophets spoke of him. You can't keep the ten commandments apart from new birth where the heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh:

I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. (Ezekiel 36:25-37)
​

The Levitical law included far more then the Ten Commandments, there were rites of purification and sacrifice for sin. Only when you receive the Holy Spirit based on faith in the gospel are you remotely capable of observing the will of God expressed in his revealed word. Apparently, the Hebrews after the Exodus were given an opportunity to receive the Spirit on some level but the message was not received by faith.

For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. (Hebrews 4:2)
​

The Spirit swore in his wrath they would never enter into his rest, when they could cease from their labor. Obedience can be had by no other means, you believe the gospel and receive the Holy Spirit. Avoiding the hazards of unbelief and distractions both from carnality and legalism the believer will go on to bear fruit in the fullness of time. You won't get that from the Sinai covenant, most of them were stiff necked and rebellious and in their hearts turned back to Egypt. God almost killed all but Moses but Moses talked God out of it saying don't let it be said you delivered your people out of Egypt only to destroy them in the wilderness.

Your error is evident and obvious, your conflating the commandments of Christ with the Law of Moses,, two very different things. While it is true Christian conversion is marked by repentance and bearing fruit, Christ's commandments are not identical with the Mosaic Law. The Law has to be written on the heart, you must be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, you must be the righteousness of God in Christ which is how your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees. The Law made nothing perfect and can make nothing perfect, you must be born again and follow the law of the Spirit. You will not find that at Sinai, the gospel calls us to Zion, the city of the Living God. The dead letter of the Law was nailed to the cross through the power of an indestructible life (Hebrews 7:16). That life is found only 'in Christ', apart from grace and the power of the Holy Spirit you are powerless and lost.

Grace and peace,
Mark

​

 

[mark kennedy]

You clearly promote no law keeping - no salvation. The Gospels don't promote that.

I appreciate your frustration, where is the gospel in these arguments I wonder. Surly the believer knows that repentance and bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit is the heart of the gospel, the very thing you we're called to in the first place. You must become the righteousness of God in Christ which is impossible apart from the gospel. Of course we don't want to be entangled in the slavery to sin described in Romans 6 but we don't want to be children of that slave woman, as the Sinai covenant is describe by Paul in Galatians. There is a balance there, that balance between the righteousness of God witnessed to in the Law is manifest only through grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's called justification by grace through faith and appears to be completely abandoned by these kind of arguments. So like I say, I appreciate your frustration. We stand or fall on the gospel, there is no other way.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hello Mark, what I do notice brother is that you choose to ignore most of the scriptures provided to you, neither do you bother replying to most of the posts sent to you that disagree with you. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it disappear. We will have to all answer to God for either accepting his Word or rejecting it come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. Some more comments for your consideration below.

Of course repentance is part of the New Testament revelation, the New Testament describes this at length. The fact that you are a sinner has to be revealed to you (Romans 1:18-20), and is.

If you believe that REPENTANCE is a part of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures then what is it we are to repent from? If the wages of sin is death and sin is the transgression of God's LAW what do you think we need to repent of? Yes SIN! *ROMANS 3:20 (breaking God's LAW

All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God *ROMANS 3:23. If we live after the flesh (sin) we shall die *ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:23. JESUS has come to call sinners to repentance not the righteouss *LUKE 5:32. God's people repent from their sins that they know about and do not continue in them *ROMANS 6:1-2.

PROVERBS 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

The word of God is described by Jesus as a seed, the soil the seed falls on might be too hard for it to take root, or too shallow for it to mature and bear fruit, it can be crowded out by the cares of this life and deceitfulness of riches described as weeds. Once you receive this seed, that is the basis for conversion, it is impossible if you are enlightened:

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age. (Hebrews 6:4-5)​

To be restored to repentance.

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:6)
​

If you 'fall away'.

This idea of 'enlightenment' is simply the light of New Testament revelation, John puts special emphasis on the light that has come into the world, but men have loved darkness more then light. That enlightenment isn't the same as the ten commandments even though the Law did testify to the righteousness of God. The Law came through Moses as John tells us, but grace and truth came through Christ: For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. (John 1:17-18)

This is why it is written in JOHN 3:18-20 in regards to light. [18], He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19], And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20], For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21], But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.
The SEED is in deed the Word of God. Those who do not believe and follow it do not come to it because they love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil (they break God's commandments).

​

You will not get the gospel of Jesus Christ from the Law or the Prophets, even though all the prophets spoke of him.

JESUS is the living Word of God *JOHN 1:1-4; 14. The gospel is all the Word of God and we are to live by it *MATTHEW 4:4. It is the LAW and the prophets that all pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT. God's people in the OLD COVENANT or the NEW COVENANT have only ever been saved the same way and that is by FAITH in God's WORD *HEBREWS 11. The only difference is that the OLD Covenant Shadow laws from the MOSIAC book of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7 are now fulfilled in Christ (no more animal sacrifices and sin offerings and new priesthood in the heavenly Sanctuary). Those in the OLD COVENANT looked forward to Christ through the levitical priesthood and sanctuary sevice and sin offerings and those in the NEW COVENANT today look back to him who the sin offerings all pointed to.

You can't keep the ten commandments apart from new birth where the heart of stone is replaced by a heart of flesh: I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances. (Ezekiel 36:25-37)

Good brother I am glad you agree now. If you now agree however there is no excuse to break God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of sin if broken *ROMANS 3:20.

​

The Levitical law included far more then the Ten Commandments, there were rites of purification and sacrifice for sin. Only when you receive the Holy Spirit based on faith in the gospel are you remotely capable of observing the will of God expressed in his revealed word. Apparently, the Hebrews after the Exodus were given an opportunity to receive the Spirit on some level but the message was not received by faith.

Your error here brother is that you mix up the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. God's 10 commandments are not the shadow Levitical laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT. The purpose of the Levitical laws in the OLD COVENANT were as a suppliment to the 10 Commandments and a prescription for the forgivness of sin if any of God's 10 commandments were broken (sin offerings for fogiveness of sin). These are now fulfilled in Christ.

Your error is evident and obvious, your conflating the commandments of Christ with the Law of Moses,, two very different things. While it is true Christian conversion is marked by repentance and bearing fruit, Christ's commandments are not identical with the Mosaic Law. The Law has to be written on the heart, you must be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, you must be the righteousness of God in Christ which is how your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees. The Law made nothing perfect and can make nothing perfect, you must be born again and follow the law of the Spirit. You will not find that at Sinai, the gospel calls us to Zion, the city of the Living God. The dead letter of the Law was nailed to the cross through the power of an indestructible life (Hebrews 7:16). That life is found only 'in Christ', apart from grace and the power of the Holy Spirit you are powerless and lost. Grace and peace, Mark

Not really brother. Your problem as shown in this post is that you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is and you mix up God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 with the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Someone having the number of posts you do means you've been here for a while. It's hard for me considering the topic of this forum and the discussion I read here for you to not know very well what I'm talking about. But then I also notice the contents of posts you respond to are often ignored.

Unfortunately you presume too much. If I ignored any posts I would not respond to them section by section and scripture by scripture. Your post has no truth in it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Christians aren't required to keep that covenant. To do so would mean rejecting the acceptance of a contradictory covenant.

You are confused. If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you know what the NEW COVENANT is that it points to? You mix up the shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I desperately need you to explain how being delivered from the law means keeping the law.

ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *1 JOHN 3-4; ROMANS 3:23; 5:12. The wages of sin (breaking God's LAW) is death to all who have sinned but God has given us the gift of salvation through his sin because he has shown us his LOVE in that while we were sinners Chirst died for us bring us back to God *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 5:8.

If you have faith and believe and accept the gift of God's dear son accepting his sacrifice on the cross, to die in your place for the sins that you alone have done and deserve to die for and repent confess your sins, giving them to JESUS then by faith alone (believing God's promise) you are free from the condemnation (death penalty) of God's LAW. If you continue in his Word by faith you will be free to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16.

There is only salvation in the living Word of God. JESUS saves us from sin, not to continue in sin. Those that continue in sin will not enter the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Those who come to Jesus aren't rejecting God's free gift you required to be earned by keeping the sabbath.

Not really brother. Those who come to JESUS are not living a life of known UNREPENTANT SIN. 1 JOHN 2:3-4; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; JOHN 14:15. Those who live a life of known unrepentant sin reject the gift of God's dear son and will not enter the kingdom of heaven *ROMANS 6:23

you required to be earned by keeping the sabbath.

Brother why do you feel the need to make up things no one has ever said to you? We are only saved by Grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a GIFT of GOD and not of works lest any man should boast *EPHESIANS 2:8. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who believe and follow God's WORD. We follow JESUS because we love him not because we are saved by the things we do *JOHN 14:15.

God's LAW (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOEUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. IF we knowingly break ANY one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11!

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to UNKNOWINGLY break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).