Hebrews 3 and 4 do not delete God's Sabbath commandment

Danthemailman · Oct 23, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The eisegesis is thinking you can have the blessing God gives by disobeying Him, especially breaking the Holy day of the Lord thy God that God tells us to Remember, which is the opposite of what is being taught here. I choose to believe and follow God.

God bless

Where does it state in the New Testament that believers are disobeying God by not keeping the sabbath day under the Mosaic law? Who was God addressing when He said remember the sabbath day, to keep it Holy? Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying: 2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Who did God bring out of the land of Egypt? The Israelites.

Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

Exodus 31:16 - The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.

Are you an Israelite under the law of Moses?

SabbathBlessings · Oct 23, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Where does it state in the New Testament that believers are disobeying God by not keeping the sabbath day under the Mosaic law? Who was God addressing when He said remember the sabbath day, to keep it Holy? Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying: 2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Who did God bring out of the land of Egypt? The Israelites.

Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

Exodus 31:16 - The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.

Are you an Israelite under the law of Moses?

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant and the covenant was made to Israel Jer 31:33, Hebrews 8:10. If you are in Christ and part of the promise, than you are part of the whole covenant not just the parts you want. God’s laws written in our hearts and minds of course that includes the 4th commandment and the Holy day of the Lord that we see both Jesus keeping and the disciples throughout the whole New Testament as our example. Luke 4:16-19, Acts 18:4. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man was created on the 6th day before the first Sabbath before Jews. Genesis 1:26. Jesus said IF you love Me keep My commandments, and of course that includes the 4th commandment. God’s commandments came in a covenant of Ten, not nine and they are eternal. Matthew 5:19. Col 2:16 is not referring to the Sabbath commandment that has been explained to you many times. Jesus is coming soon and this will all get straighten out.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 23, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Correct.

The new covenant is not simply the 10 commandments from the old covenant of law repackaged.

The 4th commandment that was a sign between God and the Israelites (Exodus 31:17) is not included. (Colossians 2:16-17) Now of course Jesus was keeping the sabbath day. He was born under the law (Galatians 4:4) and the Jewish disciples were also still under the law during Jesus ministry. There was a transition from law to grace in the New Testament and the new covenant was not instantly fully established in the beginning of the New Testament.

In regards to Acts 18:4, we read - And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. Paul's work here was evangelism. These Jews and Greeks (proselytes) were not yet Christians before Paul preached to them. They believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were not yet Christians.

Acts 14:1 - In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks.

Acts 17:4 - And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Jesus said the sabbath was made for man and we see throughout scripture it was specifically commanded for the children of Israel (who are of man) to keep. (Exodus 20:2; 31:16-17; Deuteronomy 5:15) Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath day being observed before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.*

The 10 commandments were under the old covenant of law with Israel. Under the new covenant, the old covenant of law is not binding on the body of Christ and has been made obsolete. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:13)

References for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

1 John 3:21 - Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Colossians 2:16 certainly does include the sabbath commandment.

An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is not just talking about "ceremonial sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).

Paul's reasoning is clear, "Let no one judge you regarding a,

festival - yearly sabbaths,
a new moon - monthly sabbaths,
or a sabbath day - weekly sabbaths (or if you wish sabbath days)"
CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.

Jesus will certainly straighten things out when He returns.

Adventist end-time theology all boils down to this: Those who keep Sabbath go to heaven, and the rest get burned in hell fire. This is a species of legalism. It makes the Sabbath, instead of grace or salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, the most important end-time issue. It takes the focus off of Jesus and puts the focus on works. Seventh-day Adventists even teach the ludicrous doctrine that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Mark of the Beast

You keep trying to make God’s covenant of Ten into a covenant of nine and this is just not biblical. Exodus 34:28 The one commandment you teach we should forget is the one commandment God told us to REMEMBER, it is the only commandment that uses the word “holy” and “blessed” which cannot be undone Numbers 23:20 God promised it would be a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 which we see fulfilled Isaiah 66:23. God personally wrote the Ten Comamndments and placed in the Most Holy of His Temple. God had a Temple on earth and one in Heaven Revelations 11:19 and we all know what is inside the ark of the Covenant. Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit to help us obey these very commandments John 14:15-18

God’s Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament

The Law of God in the New Testament.
1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).

Jesus talks about keeping the Sabbath years after He descends back to heaven Matthew 24:20 so it was never the intent of Jesus that the Sabbath would be changed. God claimed only one day in the entire Bible to be holy and that is the seventh day Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 30:8-11, Isaiah 58:13

You might want to quote an actual SDA source on what SDA’s beleive instead of non-SDA sources that takes it intentially out of context.

What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? - Adventist.org

pasifika · Oct 23, 2021

guevaraj said:
Brother, the "good news" is that "God's promise of entering His rest" still stands. Announced was this "good news" to them as to us, but it did them no good because Judaism since Joshua assumed that the Sabbath is the seventh day in the Promised Land as it was in Eden when God taught them with Manna during 40 years that a seventh day Sabbath is not entering God's Sabbath rest near the Promised Land, where it falls 10 hours earlier between two days of the week and not on the seventh day of the week.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. (Hebrews 4:1-3 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Yes, because the Good news still preaching to the world and many now and in the future will believe and obey the message and thus enter into to His Rest...

pasifika · Oct 23, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Hebrews 4:1 - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

Obedience is a manifestation of belief, just as disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief. The act of disobedience which condemns is refusing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Agree totally, on that last sentence.."disobedience is the manifestation of unbelief" just as obedience is from belief"...

pasifika · Oct 23, 2021

guevaraj said:
Brother, seeking their righteousness by disobeying is what people are doing when they do not listen to the message in Hebrews 3 and 4 about God's Sabbath "rest". There is no need to speculate on the meaning of the word "rest", disobeying the message, when the message is clear about the meaning of the word "rest" being the rest of God on the seventh day of creation that God made holy and is kept in the Promised Land correctly, as Jesus kept it, though Judaism has not fully understood God's Sabbath "rest" because those under Joshua did not "share the faith of those who obeyed". United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello G,
Yes it's clear from Hebrews 4, that it was God that rested on the 7th day because God was the only One who work...

It is clear from Hebrews 3&4 that our work is Not the same as God's work also our "day" of Rest (Sabbath Rest)..

BobRyan · Oct 23, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
quote an actual SDA source on what SDA’s believe instead of non-SDA sources

Amen!!

BobRyan · Oct 23, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Where does it state in the New Testament that believers are disobeying God by not keeping the sabbath day under the Mosaic law?

Where does it state in the New Testament that "believers are disobeying God by not refraining from taking God's name in vain under Mosaic Law"??

I have seen that sort of argument tried out before and it fails the sola scriptura test.

BobRyan · Oct 23, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Amen! We establish or uphold the law by putting our faith in the One who fulfilled all the righteous requirements of the law

We don't fulfill the law by taking God's name in vain. I think everyone sees that detail clearly.

So let's start with the "easy part".

guevaraj · Oct 23, 2021

pasifika said:
Hello G, Yes it's clear from Hebrews 4, that it was God that rested on the 7th day because God was the only One who work... It is clear from Hebrews 3&4 that our work is Not the same as God's work also our "day" of Rest (Sabbath Rest)..

Brother, you are changing the message of Hebrews 3 and 4 by changing the meaning of the word "rest" from what God said it means in the message to something other. The Hebrews 3 and 4 message identifies the "rest" as referring to when God rested from His labor after creating the world on the seventh day of the week of creation. The meaning of the word "rest" remains the same throughout the message. You have changed the meaning of the word "rest" from God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land, that He tells us was not entered for 40 years with Manna, to something other than God's Sabbath "rest" in the Promised Land. When you stop trying to change the meaning of the word "rest" you will learn what those under Joshua failed to learn, that defined are the days of the week from morning to morning and that the Sabbath in the Promised Land is not the seventh day of the week as it was in Eden, but actually falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land because God's Sabbath is remembered in the Eden time zone.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” (Hebrews 4:1-5 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

HARK! · Oct 23, 2021

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF

prophecy_uk · Oct 24, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
God’s Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament

The Law of God in the New Testament.
1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).

Did Jesus enter into His glorious rest, on sabbath day, or on the day of salvation? ( it cant be both)...

Isaiah 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Isaiah 49:8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

2 Corinthians 6: We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

SabbathBlessings · Oct 24, 2021

prophecy_uk said:
Did Jesus enter into His glorious rest, on sabbath day, or on the day of salvation? ( it cant be both)...

Isaiah 25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

Isaiah 49:8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

2 Corinthians 6: We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

I refer you back to the OP. The gospel rest does not delete the commandments of God and you do not receive the rest in Christ by being disobedient to God’s commandments. Hebrews 4:6

prophecy_uk · Oct 24, 2021

The op is an opinion, and referring me back to it, does not make it right.

The commandment of God is one, do you think it is sabbath, who do you love on that day..

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 24, 2021

prophecy_uk said:
The op is an opinion, and referring me back to it, does not make it right.

The commandment of God is one, do you think it is sabbath, who do you love on that day..

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Love is the fulfillment and according to God- how do we show love to Him? By obeying or disobeying?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you anotherHelper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Jesus even gives us the Holy Spirit to help us obey the commandments. What you are doing is talking scripture out of context to make an argument for lawlessness which is not biblical.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

prophecy_uk · Oct 24, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Love is the fulfillment and according to God- how do we show love to Him? My obeying or disobeying?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you anotherHelper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Jesus even gives us the Holy Spirit to help us obey the commandments. What you are doing is talking scripture out of context to make an argument for lawlessness which is not biblical.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Love is replacing the law of hatred:

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 24, 2021

prophecy_uk said:
Love is replacing the law of hatred:

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Again a lot of scripture taken out of context. Jesus has some warnings about breaking the commandments and teaching others to break God’s commandments

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

prophecy_uk · Oct 24, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Again a lot of scripture taken out of context. Jesus has some warnings about breaking the commandments and teaching others to break God’s commandments

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The commandment is love, to your enemies, it is the circumcision of Christ which is the Spirit, it is to not stone others to death, but instead of knowing God in tables of stone, in the heart in fleshy tables..

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 24, 2021

prophecy_uk said:
The commandment is love, to your enemies, it is the circumcision of Christ which is the Spirit, it is to not stone others to death, but instead of knowing God in tables of stone, in the heart in fleshy tables..

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I am going to take it you do not understand the Second Covenant- God writes His laws (not deletes) in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33. We obey because of our love for God, not because it is a commandment. Obedience is a fruit of our faith, disobeying we are told we are not known by Jesus and there is not truth in us. Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:4

prophecy_uk · Oct 24, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
I am going to take it you do not understand the Second Covenant- God writes His laws (not deletes) in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33. We obey because of our love for God, not because it is a commandment. Obedience is a fruit of our faith, disobeying we are told we are not known by Jesus and there is not truth in us. Matthew 7:21-23, 1 John 2:4

No, we obey because of love for others, this is when we love God( it is predicted they love themselves now instead..

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Hebrews 3 and 4 do not delete God's Sabbath commandment

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an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

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