Hebrews 12:2

[Regenerated]

Hebrews 12:2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ok, It says that Christ is the author and perfecter of faith. If people say that all people have faith and Christ is the author of it, then way are not all people being perfected and going to heaven?

 

[Jon_]

Hebrews 12:2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ok, It says that Christ is the author and perfecter of faith. If people say that all people have faith and Christ is the author of it, then way are not all people being perfected and going to heaven?

Are you talking about the universalists? I'm not familiar with any other group who would advocate for the "universal faith" of all people.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Regenerated]

I know people that say that all men have faith and it is up to you to use it and come to Christ

 

[kenrapoza]

But that view does not follow from the text. It says that Christ is the author and finisher (perfecter) of our faith. This is saving faith, which is a gift from God, secured by Christ and delivered by the Holy Spirit. All people are not being perfected because not all people believe in Christ.

 

[Regenerated]

But that view does not follow from the text. It says that Christ is the author and finisher (perfecter) of our faith. This is saving faith, which is a gift from God, secured by Christ and delivered by the Holy Spirit. All people are not being perfected because not all people believe in Christ.

That is right. I was just look at how they see it. They say that all men have faith. Then it is up to you to us that faith and choose Christ. You see what I am saying. They make know sents at all. For all men do not have faith. If they did they will be perfected in Christ.

 

[kenrapoza]

Agreed. This passage teaches us the opposite, it shows us that faith is not something we all have or can conjure up ourselves. This passage shows us where our faith actually comes from.

 

[Nemo Neem]

Hebrews 12:2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ok, It says that Christ is the author and perfecter of faith. If people say that all people have faith and Christ is the author of it, then way are not all people being perfected and going to heaven?

You have to profess your faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Regenerated]

You have to profess your faith in Jesus Christ.

So are you saying that Christ is the author of your faith, then it is up to you to us it the way you want to. If you want to profess you can, if you dont want to you dont have to.

So if you dont, does that mean He can't perfect it. It is all up to you

 

[Nemo Neem]

So are you saying that Christ is the author of your faith, then it is up to you to us it the way you want to. If you want to profess you can, if you dont want to you dont have to.

So if you dont, does that mean He can't perfect it. It is all up to you

Yes. We choose God. God chose us first, but we fell from God. Now it's up to us. God gave us His Grace to use; if we profess faith in Him, He'll save us, because we are going back to Him. If we don't choose God, then He won't choose us.

Yes, it's in our hands.

 

[Regenerated]

Yes. We choose God. God chose us first, but we fell from God. Now it's up to us. God gave us His Grace to use; if we profess faith in Him, He'll save us, because we are going back to Him. If we don't choose God, then He won't choose us.

Yes, it's in our hands.

But that is not what it says. It says that He is the author of your faith and He will perfect it. Your faith is monergistic The work of God alone. Not synergistic you and God working together. He choose us we where not looking for Him.

 

[Nemo Neem]

But that is not what it says. It says that He is the author of your faith and He will perfect it. Your faith is monergistic The work of God alone. Not synergistic you and God working together. He choose us we where not looking for Him.

Yes, He is the author of the Faith, but we fell away from Him. That's the key. As long as you profess your faith in Christ, that is all you need.

 

[Regenerated]

But if everyone has faith. everyone is going to be saved. Because He is going to perfect it. You dont believe everyone is going to be saved do you.

 

[Nemo Neem]

But if everyone has faith. everyone is going to be saved. Because He is going to perfect it. You dont believe everyone is going to be saved do you.

No, I don't; but that's their choice. They choose, like I did, if they want to be saved, because He offers it.

 

[Regenerated]

The Canons of Dordt Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

Article 5: The Sources of Unbelief and of Faith

• The cause or blame for this unbelief, as well as for all other sins, is not at all in God, but in man. Faith in Jesus Christ, however, and salvation through him is a free gift of God. As Scripture says, It is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8). Likewise: It has been freely given to you to believe in Christ (Phil. 1:29).

Article 6: God's Eternal Decision

• The fact that some receive from God the gift of faith within time, and that others do not, stems from his eternal decision. For all his works are known to God from eternity (Acts 15:18; Eph. 1:11). In accordance with this decision he graciously softens the hearts, however hard, of his chosen ones and inclines them to believe, but by his just judgment he leaves in their wickedness and hardness of heart those who have not been chosen. And in this especially is disclosed to us his act--unfathomable, and as merciful as it is just--of distinguishing between people equally lost. This is the well-known decision of election and reprobation revealed in God's Word. This decision the wicked, impure, and unstable distort to their own ruin, but it provides holy and godly souls with comfort beyond words.

Article 7: Election

• Election [or choosing] is God's unchangeable purpose by which he did the following:
  Before the foundation of the world, by sheer grace, according to the free good pleasure of his will, he chose in Christ to salvation a definite number of particular people out of the entire human race, which had fallen by its own fault from its original innocence into sin and ruin. Those chosen were neither better nor more deserving than the others, but lay with them in the common misery. He did this in Christ, whom he also appointed from eternity to be the mediator, the head of all those chosen, and the foundation of their salvation. And so he decided to give the chosen ones to Christ to be saved, and to call and draw them effectively into Christ's fellowship through his Word and Spirit. In other words, he decided to grant them true faith in Christ, to justify them, to sanctify them, and finally, after powerfully preserving them in the fellowship of his Son, to glorify them.
  God did all this in order to demonstrate his mercy, to the praise of the riches of his glorious grace.
  As Scripture says, God chose us in Christ, before the foundation of the world, so that we should be holy and blameless before him with love; he predestined us whom he adopted as his children through Jesus Christ, in himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, by which he freely made us pleasing to himself in his beloved (Eph. 1:4-6). And elsewhere, Those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified, he also glorified (Rom. 8:30).

Article 8: A Single Decision of Election

• This election is not of many kinds; it is one and the same election for all who were to be saved in the Old and the New Testament. For Scripture declares that there is a single good pleasure, purpose, and plan of God's will, by which he chose us from eternity both to grace and to glory, both to salvation and to the way of salvation, which he prepared in advance for us to walk in.

Article 9: Election Not Based on Foreseen Faith

• This same election took place, not on the basis of foreseen faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, or of any other good quality and disposition, as though it were based on a prerequisite cause or condition in the person to be chosen, but rather for the purpose of faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, and so on. Accordingly, election is the source of each of the benefits of salvation. Faith, holiness, and the other saving gifts, and at last eternal life itself, flow forth from election as its fruits and effects. As the apostle says, He chose us (not because we were, but) so that we should be holy and blameless before him in love (Eph. 1:4).

Article 10: Election Based on God's Good Pleasure

• But the cause of this undeserved election is exclusively the good pleasure of God. This does not involve his choosing certain human qualities or actions from among all those possible as a condition of salvation, but rather involves his adopting certain particular persons from among the common mass of sinners as his own possession. As Scripture says, When the children were not yet born, and had done nothing either good or bad..., she (Rebecca) was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). Also, All who were appointed for eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).

Article 11: Election Unchangeable

• Just as God himself is most wise, unchangeable, all-knowing, and almighty, so the election made by him can neither be suspended nor altered, revoked, or annulled; neither can his chosen ones be cast off, nor their number reduced.

Article 12: The Assurance of Election

• Assurance of this their eternal and unchangeable election to salvation is given to the chosen in due time, though by various stages and in differing measure. Such assurance comes not by inquisitive searching into the hidden and deep things of God, but by noticing within themselves, with spiritual joy and holy delight, the unmistakable fruits of election pointed out in God's Word-- such as a true faith in Christ, a childlike fear of God, a godly sorrow for their sins, a hunger and thirst for righteousness, and so on.

 

[kenrapoza]

Well, if it's up to us then we're pretty screwed because Scripture is clear that we are dead in our trespasses and sins; not sick, but dead. To ask a dead man to make a spiritual decision would be akin to Jesus asking Lazarus to raise himself from the dead. Jesus raised Lazarus by his effective and powerful word, just as he breathes new life into us.

 

[Nemo Neem]

Well, if it's up to us then we're pretty screwed because Scripture is clear that we are dead in our trespasses and sins; not sick, but dead. To ask a dead man to make a spiritual decision would be akin to Jesus asking Lazarus to raise himself from the dead. Jesus raised Lazarus by his effective and powerful word, just as he breathes new life into us.

Which is why we have God's Grace and the Holy Spirit as guidance. We are incapable of choosing God in our fallen state, and God chose us first; but we fell away, and God made a new covenant. We must now choose God, even though He promised us salvation. It's sort of like a contract.

 

[the particular baptist]

Which is why we have God's Grace and the Holy Spirit as guidance. We are incapable of choosing God in our fallen state, and God chose us first; but we fell away, and God made a new covenant. We must now choose God, even though He promised us salvation. It's sort of like a contract.

No, thats not what scripture teaches. You may not come here and peddle freewillism, arminianism, humanism, or works religion, as per forum rules.

 

[kenrapoza]

Which is why we have God's Grace and the Holy Spirit as guidance. We are incapable of choosing God in our fallen state, and God chose us first; but we fell away, and God made a new covenant. We must now choose God, even though He promised us salvation. It's sort of like a contract.

What you're talking about is the Arminian idea of prevenient grace. We do not hold that idea to be Biblical as it just pushes the human contribution to salvation one step back - it's a return to Roman Catholicism dressed in protestant clothes. This is the reformed section of CF, our statement of faith does not allow for Arminianism. You are free to fellowship here, but if you want to debate the doctrine, please post in the "Debate a Calvinist" section of the forum.

 

[Nemo Neem]

What you're talking about is the Arminian idea of prevenient grace. We do not hold that idea to be Biblical as it just pushes the human contribution to salvation one step back - it's a return to Roman Catholicism dressed in protestant clothes. This is the reformed section of CF, our statement of faith does not allow for Arminianism. You are free to fellowship here, but if you want to debate the doctrine, please post in the "Debate a Calvinist" section of the forum.

Ok, I am sorry. I was just giving the OP my interpretation of it. It's a return to Roman Catholicism dressed in protestant clothes, hm? We'll see.

 

[cygnusx1]

Hebrews 12:2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ok, It says that Christ is the author and perfecter of faith. If people say that all people have faith and Christ is the author of it, then way are not all people being perfected and going to heaven?

free will man !