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Hebrews 10:26
- Thread starter ABlessedAnomaly
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Also to add just one more brother,Bob in the context of divorce.
Better to marry than to burn.
Or remarry?
Better to marry than to burn.
Or remarry?
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Also to add just one more brother,Bob in the context of divorce.
Better to marry than to burn.
Or remarry?
I think Jesus like Moses gave us a way out, but it was not as God intended, but if it would be a sin Jesus would not have gave us the way out.
My wife is divorced, her ex got a girl friend and forbid my wife from coming home while his girlfriend was over, so she left him with her son. i don't think God faults her and i don't believe we are committing adultery. I believe God broke the bond between her and her ex, besides they were not married in a church by a pastor but at the court house. I feel that does matter in marriage as well.
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In the simplicity of the law of Moses,circumstances we encounter today were not considered then.
Today a Woman's role has changed dramatically,as well with the Man.
The new testament expounds on logic and reason in the Pauline Epistles and in Acts.
But I do have a question for everyone in the thread.
My motive is a step son who thinks it is so wrong not to believe in OSAS that he condemns his previous Church.
Tell me why it truly matters and is a deal breaker?
We abide in Romans 8,thus being saved we walk after the Spirit.
I could not fathom a spirit filled believer in a constant state of seeking flesh.
Now if you teach salvation can be lost how do you as a man or woman judge the person.
I see this becoming legalism:
Example you child has a poster of a rock star,your child is saved.
Someone comes in sees poster condemning your child to Hell if they do not repent.
This is illogical according to Hebrews,because once your out of grace Christ will not bare the cross again.
I am presuming one would interpret Hebrews 10 as a statement of loss of salvation.
So that would be extreme be it I have witness of such nonsense.
On the less extreme view you could simply think it possible to lose but wouldn't want to try
What is missing is a person who loves the Lord in Spirit and truth does not worry about such
Things,and someone who is in perpetual sin and claimed salvation is a liar.
My point is it should not divide us it should not matter what your brother thinks on OSAS
The only parting of ways should be with the legal extremist,and the false confessed salvation.
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*sigh*
No.
Adam and Eve had no pastor; they had no church. Do you think that after the first time they "knew" each other that God joined them together? Do you think that God does not join two together simply because it was a civil marriage?
The issue here is the ex-husband's immorality. That released your wife.
And for others who aren't covered by such, there is repentance and forgiveness in Christ Jesus. Don't use this as a free ticket, for God knows, but true repentance will bring God's forgiveness.
Yes, He did.
No, she is not in sin. You two are not committing adultery.
Matt 5:32 (NET)
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
This is why I sighed. This is philosophy. You believe something here because you "feel" it to be so. It must be, God certainly must think that....
No.
Adam and Eve had no pastor; they had no church. Do you think that after the first time they "knew" each other that God joined them together? Do you think that God does not join two together simply because it was a civil marriage?
The issue here is the ex-husband's immorality. That released your wife.
And for others who aren't covered by such, there is repentance and forgiveness in Christ Jesus. Don't use this as a free ticket, for God knows, but true repentance will bring God's forgiveness.
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Depending upon how old he is and how long he's been a Christian.... has anything that he believed in before changed? Has he changed his mind from his early walk until now?
The point of the matter is that there are different theological interpretations of scripture. Nobody can be certain in non-essential areas of the church. Doctrinal issues will abound and none of us can be 100% certain.
These things are simply what we believe to be true. And I for one defend what I believe to be true unless I truly have not taken a side on an issue. If I believe something is a certain way then I will defend it until someone gives me reason to pause or to change.
The essentials -- Jesus is God, there is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus is eternal and is not a created being, etc. -- are simply non-negotiable. But even here we have disagreements about how to interpret certain things (like the person of Christ).
Most things in OSAS can be interpreted in the lost salvation thought anyway: "He lost his salvation" vs. "He was never saved in the first place.". And many others.
The difference to me is how I perceive God. In a lost salvation thought God can be seen vindictive, uncaring, not in control. How could He let a child become lost again? But in OSAS He is in control. He will keep me and it is not up to my "works."
So, if your step son changed his mind on ANYTHING, then he simply cannot be certain that he will NEVER change his mind on OSAS (I won't, but he might
).
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I feel for you Brother my step son is an atheist
From personal experience I can tell you a person who believes salvation can be lost is struggling within themselves. They do not yet see the greatness of God or fully understand it. The problem they have is the total dependence on God part. They can not except there is nothing they can do to keep there salvation, that it is out of there hands, salvation is kept by Jesus alone. There is nothing we can do. People have a hard time with this, i have struggle my self. i have felt I want to do my part, and I think many people feel if they keep their salvation they have their part they keep.
It is hard to admit there is nothing i can give God, part of being God means you don't need anything. What i found was there was something i could give God, while God needs nothing He ask for something from me. My heart, me, all of me. I can give God my self that is what he ask and i can give that, So that is what i try to give, even this is not me but God helping me do it.
So I don't think it is a deal breaker put I think it points to a person in trouble in their faith. The real issue is not with your sons church, It is the battle with in him to accept and understand Gods grace. He feels guilty, he wants to make it up. Its pride as it was for me. We all struggle to lay down our pride.
i know people will say i am wrong and this and that, but I did not write it for them but for you. I have spent almost 20 years looking inside myself and others and understand why people do what they do. That is my gift from God and what He has taught me.
all of which can be debated, but if your asking me I think your son is struggling to accept God fully, not to say he is not saved, not saying that, he is repentant, i am saying He is struggling to see all of who God is and how much He Loves him. Once he accepts that he will be free.
just my two cents, I think it points to a spiritual struggle.
I will be praying for Him and you.
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You ever say something and you wish you could take it back. Seems like an ignorant statement. i agree God would honor it. i let my anger for her ex cloud my thinking, thank you Brother for the correction
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I'm becoming increasingly convinced from scripture and testimonies (and working on confirming with the Lord) that SBG believers CAN'T "lose" their salvation, but a child of GOD can "walk away from" (reject, turn away from the Lord) and REJECT their salvation.
I hope to provide a scripture presentation ASAP, for why Dad Hagin did hear the Lord correctly on how:
1. sinning DOESN'T automatically lose us our salvation (sin can be forgiven by the blood of JESUS), but
2. walking away from the Lord and REFUSING to return to HIM is REJECTING salvation, and
3. a lifestyle of sin proves a person hasn't yet become SBG (and the LORD can say "I NEVER KNEW YOU").
For now, here's one of several testimonies on what happens when a Christian turns away from Christ, and refuses to return to HIM:
Heaven Appointments | Dr. Reggie Anderson | It's Supernatural with Sid Roth - YouTube
Timepoint is 21 minutes for man who refused to come back to the Lord.
I hope to provide a scripture presentation ASAP, for why Dad Hagin did hear the Lord correctly on how:
1. sinning DOESN'T automatically lose us our salvation (sin can be forgiven by the blood of JESUS), but
2. walking away from the Lord and REFUSING to return to HIM is REJECTING salvation, and
3. a lifestyle of sin proves a person hasn't yet become SBG (and the LORD can say "I NEVER KNEW YOU").
For now, here's one of several testimonies on what happens when a Christian turns away from Christ, and refuses to return to HIM:
Heaven Appointments | Dr. Reggie Anderson | It's Supernatural with Sid Roth - YouTube
Timepoint is 21 minutes for man who refused to come back to the Lord.
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Please take john 6 the part about the bread of life into account when you complete your post.
also some question.
can a child of God reject what he has already chosen?
can a child be unborn?
Would God let His beloved son die in vain for some one?
Is the choice we make between good and evil, God or satan a choice we must make over and over again, or is it we chose God once and then try to walk in His light?
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Depending upon how old he is and how long he's been a Christian.... has anything that he believed in before changed? Has he changed his mind from his early walk until now?
The point of the matter is that there are different theological interpretations of scripture. Nobody can be certain in non-essential areas of the church. Doctrinal issues will abound and none of us can be 100% certain.
These things are simply what we believe to be true. And I for one defend what I believe to be true unless I truly have not taken a side on an issue. If I believe something is a certain way then I will defend it until someone gives me reason to pause or to change.
The essentials -- Jesus is God, there is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus is eternal and is not a created being, etc. -- are simply non-negotiable. But even here we have disagreements about how to interpret certain things (like the person of Christ).
Most things in OSAS can be interpreted in the lost salvation thought anyway: "He lost his salvation" vs. "He was never saved in the first place.". And many others.
The difference to me is how I perceive God. In a lost salvation thought God can be seen vindictive, uncaring, not in control. How could He let a child become lost again? But in OSAS He is in control. He will keep me and it is not up to my "works."
So, if your step son changed his mind on ANYTHING, then he simply cannot be certain that he will NEVER change his mind on OSAS (I won't, but he might
I hate to do this but on divorce:
Why should we,why not have multiple wife's since it was not condemned in the Old Testament,it was not part of the law of Moses nor of sanitary ordinance.
In the new testament we find no such condemnation of it,only on divorce.
So should we do as David did and not release Sauls daughter?
Just keep them around for them to heckle us?
Personally I think it was Constantine who reformed marriage,and gave a harsh view on divorce influencing the Vulgate.
Passing down through translation all the way to the puritan dogmatism.
I'm not promoting polygamy,just thought.
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Thank you Blue,he is against those who believe salvation can be lost.
His belief is a oxymoronic stance in that their lost because of their belief.
So I guess he thinks they were never saved to begin with since they believe in backsliding out of salvation.
It is circular logic(you are wrong by my standards therefore you can't be saved)
His belief is a oxymoronic stance in that their lost because of their belief.
So I guess he thinks they were never saved to begin with since they believe in backsliding out of salvation.
It is circular logic(you are wrong by my standards therefore you can't be saved)
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Back to OSAS
2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Now we have to reconcile this with Hebrews 10.
2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Now we have to reconcile this with Hebrews 10.
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I hate to do it too.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
This too was not explicitly rejected in the New Testament .
So how do we deal with such "discrepancies?"
And Constantine aside, Jesus and Paul were quite adamant about divorce. And for those who may have divorce in their past, there is forgiveness.
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Now Faith, 2 Peter 21 is speaking of the unsaved who get a glimpse of how to achieve righteousness.
Look at how the chapter starts:
2 Peter 2:1-2 (NET)
But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.
But false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. These false teachers will infiltrate your midst with destructive heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them. As a result, they will bring swift destruction on themselves. 2 And many will follow their debauched lifestyles. Because of these false teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.
Paul begins by pointing out the false (and unsaved) prophets. Then those who listen to them and have a debauched lifestyle and thus never find real Truth.
The juxtaposition here is the unsaved who have not heard the Word and the unsaved who have heard it and rejected it. Add to that the faithful of the Old Testament who were prior to þh cross and never heard about Jesus -- yet they are saved and Hebrews 11 (Hall of Fame of faith) speaks highly of them.
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I hate to do it too.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (KJV)
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
This too was not explicitly rejected in the New Testament .
So how do we deal with such "discrepancies?"
And Constantine aside, Jesus and Paul were quite adamant about divorce. And for those who may have divorce in their past, there is forgiveness.
Note that the son being stoned was the law of Moses,but I see your point in that it is a logical conclusion.
Yet we have to wonder is it something that logically did not change such as the Sabbath.
It is not mentioned,yet we rest on Sunday Sun~day
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The Early Christians didn't get too lathered up over nuanced debate over whether they were keeping the Ten Commandments or not. Or whether they could lose their Salvation by harboring a pet sin. .They just followed Paul's admonition and ignored trifling details like that. They truly forgot about themselves altogether.
For the Early Christians, in its most practical and real world application; "getting rid of the Ten Commandments" and "forgetting themselves" meant a cardboard box full of their Lion tooth-nicked bloody bones would be kept by their local Church as a Holy Relic.
For the Early Christians, in its most practical and real world application; "getting rid of the Ten Commandments" and "forgetting themselves" meant a cardboard box full of their Lion tooth-nicked bloody bones would be kept by their local Church as a Holy Relic.
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On one point why do you consider 2nd Peter written by Paul.
I would doubt Paul would write anything introduced as Peters work.
It is written in a different style than first Peter but we must consider a broader audience and the time between 1st and 2nd,there are similar verses in Jude but this does not deter Peters work.
This passage simply is a restatement of Christ in the parable of the man returning to the house finding it swept clean,with
7 more spirits dwelling there and the latter man is worse off than the first.
Question: the verse says and they are again entangled with in.,what would be the destiny of the man not getting tangled up ?
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In that quote about the man who cast out a spirit and it goes and gets seven more and the man last state is worse than the first. He said that will be the experience of this generation. It was specific to a generation.
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