Discussion Hebrew Roots; error or something else?

[Frogster]

They did not and while God apparently allowed them to be insulted, it still was not a term of endearment.

read Paul in Acts 26, he said he wished all were as he was a christian, right before agrippa.

 

[Frogster]

In it's context:

HEBREWS 7:11-28 (AMP)
11 Now if perfection (a perfect fellowship between God and the worshiper) had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood—for under it the people were given the Law—why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order and rank of Aaron?
12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity an alteration of the law [concerning the priesthood] as well.
13 For the One of Whom these things are said belonged [not to the priestly line but] to another tribe, no member of which has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe.
15 And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek,(A)
16 Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
17 For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek.(B)
18 So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness—
19 For the Law never made anything perfect—but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.
20 And it was not without the taking of an oath [that Christ was made Priest],
21 For those who formerly became priests received their office without its being confirmed by the taking of an oath by God, but this One was designated and addressed and saluted with an oath, The Lord has sworn and will not regret it or change His mind, You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.(C)
22 In keeping with [the oath’s greater strength and force], Jesus has become the Guarantee of a better (stronger) agreement [a more excellent and more advantageous covenant].
23 [Again, the former successive line of priests] was made up of many, because they were each prevented by death from continuing [perpetually in office];
24 But He holds His priesthood unchangeably, because He lives on forever.
25 Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.
26 [Here is] the High Priest [perfectly adapted] to our needs, as was fitting—holy, blameless, unstained by sin, separated from sinners, and exalted higher than the heavens.
27 He has no day by day necessity, as [do each of these other] high priests, to offer sacrifice first of all for his own [personal] sins and then for those of the people, because He [met all the requirements] once for all when He brought Himself [as a sacrifice] which He offered up.
28 For the Law sets up men in their weakness [frail, sinful, dying human beings] as high priests, but the word of [God’s] oath, which [was spoken later] after the institution of the Law, [chooses and appoints as priest One Whose appointment is complete and permanent], a Son Who has been made perfect forever.(D)


Verse 11, Paul asks, "if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, what need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?"


Verse 12, he answers the question. "When there's a change in the priesthood, it is necessary to change the law regarding that priesthood.

Verse 13, This other priest of whom these things are about is Yeshua and he did not belong to the priestly line of Levites.


Verse 14, Yeshua came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses made no mention of priests from that tribe.


Verse 15, It became quite clear when another Priest arose Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek (Psalms 110:4)


Verse 16, Yeshua was not appointed Priest on the basis of the legal requirement based on His ancestry but on the basis of an endless and indestructible life. The priests before Yeshua were human and they had human needs. They had to eat, rest, sleep, and eventually they died.


Verse 17, Yeshua is after the order of Melchizedek (Melchizedek was also from the tribe of Judah).


Verse 18, The previous physical command is cancelled because of it's weakness (the human High Priest needed to eat, rest, sleep, and eventually they die).


Verse 19, for this law regarding the priesthood did not make anything perfect. Human men who also had to make sacrifes for their own sins as well as others could not bring us closer to God. However, now, we have a hope that we can come close to God.


Verse 20, there was an oath involved with Yeshua being made Priest.


Verse 21, The former priests were not confirmed by an oath by God. God swore that Yeshau was a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.


Verse 22, Jesus is the Guarantee of a better agreement because His Priesthood is forever.


Verse 23, the former line of priest had many because they kept dying.


Verse 24, but Yeshua lives on forever.


Verse 25, Because of this He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him. Why? Because He is always making petition to God and intervening for us.


Verse 26, Yeshua is a High Priest perfectly adapted to our needs.


Verse 27, He has no daily needs as the other priests did. Yeshua met all the requirements of a sacrifice and he offered himself up as the final sacrificial lamb.


Verse 28, for the law of the priesthood (humans from the tribe of Levi) used men as high priest. Men who were frail, sinful, and dying. But God's oath, which was spoken after the institution of the priesthood law, chose as priest One whose appointment as priest is complete and permanent.

BOTTOM LINE: The only difference in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is the Administrator. The initial administrators were men with weakness who eventually died and another had to take his place. The new Administrator lives forever and is continuously intervening for us. He is there 24/7 to listen to us. That is the ONLY difference in the covenants.

but there was still a change of law, the law did not have priests from Judah.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We're not talking about Israel, we're talking about the New Covenant. Which of the blessings in the Old Covenant (Deut 28) has God thrown out?

Why is Israel still not receiving the wonderful blessings that you said the Old Covenant gave them? Why is Israel still among war and strife?

It was said earlier that the Old Covenant welcomed heathens and those who repented, so why can't Israel graft the people in to the Old Covenant today? And all of them receive the blessings that the Old Covenant had for them?

 

[Frogster]

Wonderful verses Coffee.

" To the people of the old covenant these words are a promise of a new covenant and not a reaffirmation of the old covenant which is weak and beggarly" (Gal 4:19)

I love to read the text in the Word. Glory to God for giving us the NEW and EVERLASTING Covenant!

yep, Paul called the law bondage 4 times in Galatians.

 

[Frogster]

And again, while God may have allowed them to be insulted, it was NOT a term of endearment, nor did they call themselves that. I've also already responded to the 1 Peter 4:16 verse. He was saying that if you're suffering insults of being called Christian, give God glory.

to be a Christian glorified God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

yep, Paul called the law bondage 4 times in Galatians.

Why some want to point back to a Old Covenant that the Word calls weak and beggarly is beyond me. I'm glad I'm a Christian.

 

[Frogster]

I did not mean to imply that you thought differently. There are many here though who think that salvation by grace through faith is only NT

it CAME in the NT times, we know paul used Hab 2:4, and Abraham, but the grace came by Christ, at his appearing, not before

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Why is Israel still not receiving the wonderful blessings that you said the Old Covenant gave them? Why is Israel still among war and strife?

It was said earlier that the Old Covenant welcomed heathens and those who repented, so why can't Israel graft the people in to the Old Covenant today? And all of them receive the blessings that the Old Covenant had for them?

If you had read the whole chapter you would have seen there were also curses. However, we are not talking about Israel.

Which of the Old Covenant blessings has God thrown out?

 

[Frogster]

Why some want to point back to a Old Covenant that the Word calls weak and beggarly is beyond me. I'm glad I'm a Christian.

they must like the faded glory that 2 cor 3 talks about.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Why some want to point back to a Old Covenant that the Word calls weak and beggarly is beyond me. I'm glad I'm a Christian.

You say there was an old covenant that is no longer in existance. I'm asking, which of those old covenant blessings has God thrown out and it not in the new?

 

[Frogster]

If you had read the whole chapter you would have seen there were also curses. However, we are not talking about Israel.

Which of the Old Covenant blessings has God thrown out?

which of the curses has he kept?

 

[Frogster]

It isn't a matter of what I believe - though I like to think my beliefs are true and correct - but what Christ teaches and what is in holy scripture and holy tradition. But the answer to what changed is answered in these words:

Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
(Hebrews 9:6-10 KJV)​

I did give the above passage as part of one of my earlier posts but if I recall correctly you disagreed with what I said then. So I am only repeating it because you asked. And I do hope that you may reconsider the matter. My earlier post dealt with most of Hebrews chapter nine.

awesome!

 

[Frogster]

Describe everything.

Coffee need not be put on the defense every time you post more questions, thanks!

 

[ToBeLoved]

to be a Christian glorified God.

Christianity glorifies God today, because Christianity accepts and loves Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. We took what

You say there was an old covenant that is no longer in existance. I'm asking, which of those old covenant blessings has God thrown out and it not in the new?

If you would like to make a statement, then make it. The Old Covenant is inferior to the New Covenant. The Word of God tells us that is true.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Why some want to point back to a Old Covenant that the Word calls weak and beggarly is beyond me. I'm glad I'm a Christian.

....also, it was weak because it was administered by weak human high priests who eventually got sick and died. Our new High Priest is eternal.

 

[Frogster]

You say there was an old covenant that is no longer in existance. I'm asking, which of those old covenant blessings has God thrown out and it not in the new?

what curses has he kept? seems like you want just some of the old cov.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Christianity glorifies God today, because Christianity accepts and loves Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. We took what


If you would like to make a statement, then make it. The Old Covenant is inferior to the New Covenant. The Word of God tells us that is true.

It was inferior due to the human high priests who would eventually die. So WHICH of the blessings has God removed?

 

[Frogster]

Christianity glorifies God today, because Christianity accepts and loves Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. We took what


If you would like to make a statement, then make it. The Old Covenant is inferior to the New Covenant. The Word of God tells us that is true.

amen!

 

[Frogster]

....also, it was weak because it was administered by weak human high priests who eventually got sick and died. Our new High Priest is eternal.

the old cov was abolished...this is a fact.It was the WILL of God..

heb 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

 

[ToBeLoved]

....also, it was weak because it was administered by weak human high priests who eventually got sick and died. Our new High Priest is eternal.

True. But the entire premise of the Law was that if you did not keep all of it, you have kept none of it. So the flaws were there from the start in that it was and is an all or nothing covenant.