Hebrew 6:4-6?

[representative]

those are hard verses to swallow... any tips on helping them go down?

 

[Willo]

Take it for what it says, if once you have repented, and you return to the world, then you are lost.

But remember God is a God that is full of mercy and grace, it isn't going to be one, sin and your out of the fold completly. He will warn you and call you to come back, and to confess your sins to Him. But if you refuse and harden your heart to that call, then you have rejected God.

 

[johnd]

Actually the thing to keep in mind is that the book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews essentially as commentary on:

Jeremiah 31:31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Bear in mind that Jews were under increasing pressure to recant what the religious leaders of Judaism teach against to this day (namely; faith in Jesus).

Witnessing to Jews can be quite beneficial, if for no other reason than you had better know your salt. But it can ge quite ugly at times.

Anyway, the passage in Hebrews 6 is essentially saying that there is no going back to a previous covenant with God. The Jews in the wilderness / desert wanted to return to Egypt where at least they had a place to stay, food to eat, water to drink. This was odious to God.

The same could be said about going back to the Noachian covenant etc. These were valid covenants with God, but they were superceded by the new covenants with God.

Also, no sacrifice for sin remains could be an expression that there is only one way to God and if or until the one recanting accepts that fact they are lost.

 

[johnd]

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[tqpix]

Take it for what it says, if once you have repented, and you return to the world, then you are lost.

I agree with this post. This is how I have always taken that verse.

 

[Stinker]

Hebrew 6:4-6?



those are hard verses to swallow... any tips on helping them go down? [tqpix]
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Originally Posted by: Willo

Take it for what it says, if once you have repented, and you return to the world, then you are lost.

I agree with this post. This is how I have always taken that verse. [tqpix]

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For it is impossibe for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame. (Heb.6:4-6)

Willo & tqpix: Is it your understanding that Heb.6:4-6 is teaching that a Christian cannot return to the fold if they should fall away?

 

[Willo]

Hebrew 6:4-6?



those are hard verses to swallow... any tips on helping them go down? [tqpix]
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Originally Posted by: Willo

Take it for what it says, if once you have repented, and you return to the world, then you are lost.

I agree with this post. This is how I have always taken that verse. [tqpix]

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For it is impossibe for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame. (Heb.6:4-6)

Willo & tqpix: Is it your understanding that Heb.6:4-6 is teaching that a Christian cannot return to the fold if they should fall away?

I am saying that if someone is soundly saved, and then rejects the Son and walks away from God, then it is impossible to return

 

[davidoffinland]

From Finland.

Take a look at http://www.biblecentre.net/comment/main.htm and scroll down to the NT commentaries and read how they view these verses.

Shalom, David.

 

[tqpix]

I am saying that if someone is soundly saved, and then rejects the Son and walks away from God, then it is impossible to return

That is also what I am saying.

 

[ebia]

Aside from anything else, it would seem to knock a 10km wide hole through "Once Saved Always Saved".

 

[A Brother In Christ]

those are hard verses to swallow... any tips on helping them go down?

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened[christian brethren], and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance[1 john 1:8-10]; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to open shame.

Hebrew 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the [full experiencial..has counted flesh dead a few times] knowledge of the truth[defense of the flesh] , there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins 27 But a certain fearful[carnal,not mature believers] looking for of judgement [hebrews 12:3-11] and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 cor 11:31 But when we judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as son's, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou rebuked of Him: 6 For whom the LORD loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he recieveth 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealth with you as with sons; for what son is whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ba$tards, and not sons.


Hebrews was written to the Jewish Christians who where not living christian lives but a jewish life of sacrifice over and over

this is a warning in 62 AD 6 years before the siege of Jersalem to change before the destruction of Jersalem in 70 AD

hopefully you see with the verses that OSAS is still taught in the bible and not a doctrine of men...

are sercurity is guarenteed in eph 1:13 where we are sealed in Christ till His coming...

God promise ...is a guarentee since He cannot lie!

 

[Stinker]

Originally Posted by: Willo

I am saying that if someone is soundly saved, and then rejects the Son and walks away from God, then it is impossible to return

That is also what I am saying.

Neither of you have ever seen someone come back into the fold? This is very, very strange. It actually happens in many churches. People get mad at God or another Christian or lose interest, or become much more interested in something outside Christianity, and stay gone for years who normally should not ever return......but they do.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Peter denied Christ three times yet He was the one He chose to start the good news to the gentiles

God is faithful even though we are not

 

[wheater]

I cannot believe for a second that it is impossible for me to return to Christ after I have turned away. I have done that very thing. I walked an upright life. I got sucked into sin by my own accord, and fell away. I have even been angry at the Lord. But I have come back, and begged for forgiveness and repented. I know I am forgiven. And I feel Jesus' love in my heart so strongly I know without a doubt that I am Heaven bound. His mercies are new every morning, and his love and faithfulness is so great, it is highter than the heavens.

God is faithful even though we are not

Amen! I praise God for his faithfulness, even when I have not been.

 

[wheater]

One more thought I had... if I had no chance of returning to Christ, I may as well commit suicide now... for what would be the point in living???

 

[TruthSetsYouFree]

My 2 cents...

I believe this is far more then a back-sliding, this is completely shutting yourself off from God. I believe very very very few people have gone this far.

How do you know that you haven't done this? If you are willing and have the desire to repent and turn back to Jesus. All your sins can be forgiven if you are willing to repent of them (1 John 1:9)!

Look at Peter, he denied Jesus THREE times, and yet Jesus still accepted him back!

 

[TruthSetsYouFree]

I cannot believe for a second that it is impossible for me to return to Christ after I have turned away. I have done that very thing. I walked an upright life. I got sucked into sin by my own accord, and fell away. I have even been angry at the Lord. But I have come back, and begged for forgiveness and repented. I know I am forgiven. And I feel Jesus' love in my heart so strongly I know without a doubt that I am Heaven bound. His mercies are new every morning, and his love and faithfulness is so great, it is highter than the heavens.

Thank you for sharing this. I believe this is simply back-sliding. Lots of Christians do it, and so long as we can turn from our sins and repent, we can be saved!

Where things get dangerous is when the person doesn't care, and keeps sinning anyways and refuses to repent. That's when they have to worry.

If you look carefully, it says "it is impossible to renew them to repentance"... which means, if you are able to repent, then this verse doesn't apply to you!

 

[talitha]

You know, there was a time when I thought I was unredeemable, because I had wandered so far from God. I really did feel like it was no use to keep on living, and I started doing all sorts of self-destructive things. Then the Lord led me to Hosea 14. Good stuff. He spoke to my heart and said it was for me -- that He would heal MY waywardness.......

Good post, johnd......

blessings
tal

 

[holycaveman]

Yes they are hard verses to swallow. Often verses that are true do that to us. Alot of hebrews warns us of this, 10,12. And many, many other places in the new testiment. Of course we sometimes we backslide, and our mercyful God forgives us.

Thease are great scriptures of encouragement. As pauls says." but we are not of those who fall back to destruction, but those who stay steadfast to the saving of the souls".

I was taught that thease scriptures pertain to the jews at that time, about falling back to the Law. But with further study in the matter I have realized that this is infact to us and all christians jews or other!.

Stay strong in the faith my brothers. Do not let this world overtake you.

"its easyier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" What, has a rich man sinned more??, What is so bad that he has done??.. Nothing, his opportunity for salvation is the same as the poor person. Its just that he has his riches to occupy his mind. Thats where his heart is.

Two questions (for the saved). Who is the rich man? And where is your mind focusing through the day?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

My 2 cents...

I believe this is far more then a back-sliding, this is completely shutting yourself off from God. I believe very very very few people have gone this far.

Yet God promises that no christian will go that far....

1 cor 11:32, hebrews 12:3-11, phil 1:6, 1 thes 5:24

How do you know that you haven't done this? If you are willing and have the desire to repent and turn back to Jesus. All your sins can be forgiven if you are willing to repent of them (1 John 1:9)!

Look at Peter, he denied Jesus THREE times, and yet Jesus still accepted him back!

this is because God is faithful even though we are not.. 2 tim 2:13