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Anyone Have This 2012 Translation?
Maybe, we should all have a Kindle ... Do You?
Maybe, we should all have a Kindle ... Do You?
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VERY INTERESTING ORDER
Hebraic Roots Bible (New Testament Order of Books)
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Acts
Jacob (James)
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Judah (Jude)
Hebrews
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Revelation
Mark
Luke
John
Acts
Jacob (James)
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Judah (Jude)
Hebrews
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Revelation
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- Dec 28, 2011
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This order is obviously partisan-driven. It is arranged so as to put the Jewish epistles to the fore, and Pauline letters secondary. Not that I have real problems with that, but if I were going to re-order the letters, I would use chronology as my guide, so we see how issues were addressed as they arose.
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
Anyone Have This 2012 Translation?
Maybe, we should all have a Kindle ... Do You?
You don't need a Kindle. You can download apps for phones or tablets, or a program for laptop or desktop from the Amazon Kindle site. I have the Kindle app on my tablet with various books on it. There are limits, though, as to how many devices you can register at any one time. Certainly 3 is OK - phone, tablet or laptop and PC.
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Anyone Have This 2012 Translation?
Maybe, we should all have a Kindle ... Do You?
There is no such word or name in Hebrew, then nor now, as Yahshua! That killed that translation right there. Some "literal translation"! It uses a non-existant word and goes so far as to claim it belongs to Yeshua! Astounding!
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- Jul 2, 2005
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Why yet another version? Does anyone really NEED this? It's like everyone just thinks the Bible is something to muck around with, tailoring to personal tastes, trends and sub-cultures. I'm so sick of the proliferation of trendy unecessary Bibles catering to every conceivable version of human on the planet. What next? The "Cocker Spaniel Bible" with pictures to show your dog as you read it to him in words he can understand?
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Believe mishkan generally means an orderly account with the epistles to the Jews first ... followed by the epistles to the Gentiles in an orderly manner, preferrably chronilogical.
I like the idea of putting the Jewish epistles of 1st and 2nd Peter and James before the epistles to the Gentiles.
Actually, I'm thinking I prefer Yahshua to Y'shua or Yeshua. I like the similarity between Yah-weh and Yah-shua. Phonetically my vocal pronounciation has also been much closer to Yah-shua then Ye-shua. Maybe, my Wis/Minn swede/norsky (and german, english, irish, french) dialect is too corrupted from saying, Yah-bet-cha
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yonah_mishael
הֱיֵה קודם כל בן אדם
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Believe mishkan generally means an orderly account with the epistles to the Jews first ... followed by the epistles to the Gentiles in an orderly manner, preferrably chronilogical.
I like the idea of putting the Jewish epistles of 1st and 2nd Peter and James before the epistles to the Gentiles.
Actually, I'm thinking I prefer Yahshua to Y'shua or Yeshua. I like the similarity between Yah-weh and Yah-shua. Phonetically my vocal pronounciation has also been much closer to Yah-shua then Ye-shua. Maybe, my Wis/Minn swede/norsky (and german, english, irish, french) dialect is too corrupted from saying, Yah-bet-cha
The problem is that Yahshua (presumably, יַהְשׁוּעַ
isnt a word in Hebrew at all. It simply doesnt exist! The Hebrew name is יֵשוּע (Yeshua) and its Syriac equivalent is ܝܼܫܘܿܥ (Yishu Steven can correct me if Im not getting the pronunciation of the letters correct, since Im not an expert in Aramaic). So, why insist on pronouncing a name that doesnt exist when the name that exists is clear?
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I suppose more will be exposed as more people read it and find discrepencies.. to their thinking, or against their theology.
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You are correct. I listened to an audio pronunciation with "Ye" being more of a hard 'e' sound than soft e. Being that there are different dialects in Israel and now with the immigrants interested in learning or attempting to learn correct Hebrew it must be challenging. Especially, since I've heard that Orthodox Jews pronounce Yeshua in a derogatory manner that has an entirely different meaning.The problem is that Yahshua (presumably, יַהְשׁוּעַ
Then, if not to further complicate things, there are websites like the following that probably give Orthodox Judaism a migraine and even some Messianic Jews ... http://www.eliyah.com/yahushua.html ... with several variations ...
I welcome your take on all this as a citizen of Israel having rubbed shoulders with Orthodox Jews and Messianic Jews with varying dialect inflections. Thanks!
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יַהְשׁוּעַ
or
יהושע
or
יהושע
There are two variant spellings of the Messiah's name here. The first spelling has 6 letters יהושוע and the second spelling has 5 letters יהושע. This is because both spellings are used in scripture. The predominant spelling is יהושע but the longer spelling is also found in scripture. Here are two places in the Masoretic Text where the longer spelling is employed:
Notice [however] that this "BRANCH" would be both a priest and a King. Obviously, this is not literally speaking of the man 'Yahushua, son of Yahuzadak.' It is speaking of the Messiah, called "The Branch" who would be a Priest AND King. This was the role of the Messiah (Compare Psalm 110, Isaiah 9:6). Another scripture mentioning the "BRANCH" is Jeremiah 23:5, and its' clearly Messianic:
Jer. 23:5 - "Behold, the days are coming," says Yahweh, "That I will raise to
David a BRANCH of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
David a BRANCH of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
The same Hebrew word is used here so Zechariah 6 is a quite clear Messianic prophecy. So what we have in Zechariah is a prophecy of what the Messiah's name would be called.
Zechariah was instructed to take a crown and place it on the head of Yahushua, the son of Yahutsadak (in the Hebrew it does not have "Yeshua" here, but rather "Yahushua" יהושע).
When placing the crown on the head of Yahushua יהושע the High Priest, Zechariah was told to proclaim:
"Behold the man whose NAME is the BRANCH".
This is one persons 'opinion' taken from previous link that looks sound. Is it wrong to pronounce and write:
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I used to have a Kindle- gave it to one of the kids. I hated the thing!
Who translated this version? How authoritative are the translators? Seems there is always a new translation out, and all I've seen have errors. Some push agendas. So I'm careful what versions I buy and use. That said, it's good to look at different translations sometimes to get a better understanding (or confuse me further).
Dan
Who translated this version? How authoritative are the translators? Seems there is always a new translation out, and all I've seen have errors. Some push agendas. So I'm careful what versions I buy and use. That said, it's good to look at different translations sometimes to get a better understanding (or confuse me further).
Dan
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yonah_mishael
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יַהְשׁוּעַ
or
יהושע
There are two variant spellings of the Messiah's name here. The first spelling has 6 letters יהושוע and the second spelling has 5 letters יהושע. This is because both spellings are used in scripture. The predominant spelling is יהושע but the longer spelling is also found in scripture. Here are two places in the Masoretic Text where the longer spelling is employed:
Notice [however] that this "BRANCH" would be both a priest and a King. Obviously, this is not literally speaking of the man 'Yahushua, son of Yahuzadak.' It is speaking of the Messiah, called "The Branch" who would be a Priest AND King. This was the role of the Messiah (Compare Psalm 110, Isaiah 9:6). Another scripture mentioning the "BRANCH" is Jeremiah 23:5, and its' clearly Messianic:
Jer. 23:5 - "Behold, the days are coming," says Yahweh, "That I will raise to
David a BRANCH of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
The same Hebrew word is used here so Zechariah 6 is a quite clear Messianic prophecy. So what we have in Zechariah is a prophecy of what the Messiah's name would be called.
Zechariah was instructed to take a crown and place it on the head of Yahushua, the son of Yahutsadak (in the Hebrew it does not have "Yeshua" here, but rather "Yahushua" יהושע
When placing the crown on the head of Yahushua יהושע the High Priest, Zechariah was told to proclaim:
"Behold the man whose NAME is the BRANCH".
This is one persons 'opinion' taken from previous link that looks sound. Is it wrong to pronounce and write:
The name Yehoshua can be written either as יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (the more common way) or as יְהוֹשׁוּעַ (the less common). These are the same name. One is written without the vowel letter (וּ - shuruk) and the other is written with it. It’s like the difference between קוֹלוֹת “voices” (kolot) and קֹלוֹת, between הֶאֱמִין “he believed” (he’emin) and הֶאֱמִן. The vowel letters are there to assist us in reading.
The author of that article is not arguing יְהוֹשֻׁעַ versus יְהוֹשׁוּעַ (both of which are pronounced the same: Yehoshua). He is arguing instead for YAHUshua, a form of the name that is not presented in the vocalization of the Hebrew Bible. That is, he wants to take the end of names like Eliyahu (“Elijah”
and append it to the front of this name. This would create a Hebrew *יָהוּשֻׁעַ or *יָהוּשׁוּעַ – again, forms that are not present in the Bible’s vocalization. The reason for their non-presence is due to the distance of the first syllable from the stress. The further a syllable is from the stress, the more likely it is to be reduced (in reduction, kamats shifts to sheva).For example, when we add regular suffixes to the perfect forms of a verb, this is what we get:
שָׁכַ֫ח – he forgot (no ending)
שָׁכַ֫חְתִּי – I forgot (accent next to the first syllable – it retains a full vowel)
שְׁכַחְתֶּ֫ם – you (pl.) forgot (accent is at the end of the word; kamats of the first syllable reduces)
שָׁכַ֫חְתִּי – I forgot (accent next to the first syllable – it retains a full vowel)
שְׁכַחְתֶּ֫ם – you (pl.) forgot (accent is at the end of the word; kamats of the first syllable reduces)
This is just how things happen in Hebrew, due to the length of the world.
It would be one thing for them to argue YEHUshua (for the retension of the U vowel instead of the traditional O vowel), but even that would be dubious.
Probability lies on the other side of the argument, though – that the name Yehoshua, although it appears to be like the rest of the theophoric names, isn’t really a theophoric name at all. The form “he delivered” in Hebrew is hoshia (הוֹשִׁיעַ
. When the future tense is made, the yod normally overrides the heh, and we get yoshia “he will deliver” (יוֹשִׁיעַ. There is the case of the future retaining the heh, though, even in the Bible, in which we see yehoshia “he will deliver” (יְהוֹשִׁיעַ. I would argue that yehoshua is a name associated directly with the verb yehoshia (the older form of the imperfect), and that it indeed doesn’t even bear the name of Yahweh within it.It might not be the popular position to take, but it certainly seems more sensible to me.
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Please Point Out Any Glaring Errors. Thanks!
The reason for the "Yehoshua" יַהְשׁוּעַ pronunciation is due to the Hebrew vowel pointing added by the Masorite scribes. The vowel points are the little dots and dashes under and above certain Hebrew letters. Unlike English, Hebrew was written with mostly all consonants. It was up to the reader to supply the vowels in each word based on the context of the word.
The Masorites were concerned that Hebrew was becoming a lost language so they invented the vowel point system to preserve the sounds of the Hebrew language. However, in keeping with tradition they were not interested in letting everyone speak the pronunciation of the Heavenly Father's name. For this reason, they pointed the Heavenly Father's name to produce the sound "Yehovah".
The Greek transliteration Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous) *jesu-os → [je'sus] can stand for both Classical Biblical Hebrew Yehoshua [jəhoˈʃuaʕ] (top two) and Late Biblical Hebrew Yeshua [jeˈʃuaʕ] (bottom). This later form developed within Hebrew (not Aramaic). All three spelling variants occur in the Hebrew Bible, including when referring to the same person.
During the Second Temple Period, Jews of Galilee tended to preserve the traditional spelling, keeping the <ו> letter for the [o] in the first syllable, even adding an additional letter for the second syllable. However, Jews of Jerusalem tended to spell the name as they pronounced it, [jeˈʃuaʕ], contracting the spelling to ישוע without the [o] letter. Later, Aramaic references to the Hebrew Bible adopted the contracted phonetic form of this Hebrew name as an Aramaic name.
However, Jews of Jerusalem tended to spell the name as they pronounced it, [jeˈʃuaʕ], contracting the spelling to ישוע without the [o] letter. Later, Aramaic references to the Hebrew Bible adopted the contracted phonetic form of this Hebrew name as an Aramaic name.
יֵשוּע (Yeshua) - rescue / deliver
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshuah" - Joshua)
Yahshua (presumably,יַהְשׁוּעַ)
"isnt a word in Hebrew at all. It simply doesnt exist!"
__________________
"isnt a word in Hebrew at all. It simply doesnt exist!"
__________________
Can see why Orthodox Jews prefer - יַהְשׁוּעַ (Yahushua) to יֵשוּע (Yeshua)
Right / Wrong?
Are you suggesting ... yehoshia he will deliver (יְהוֹשִׁיעַ) ... is Orthodox preferred Messiah name?
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In early Syriac it was pronounced "Yeshua" where in later Eastern Syriac it was pronounced "Eesho" or "Eeshu" due to vowel shifts.
In Aramaic contemporary to Jesus, it was pretty much identical to the Hebrew, except the first vowel could have been reduced to a simple shwa.
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Matthew 1:21 (Orthodox Jewish Bible )
And she shall bear BEN (Son) and you will call SHMO (his name, Zech 6:1 YEHOSHUA (Zech 6:11-12) because he will bring his people yeshuah (rescue, salvation, deliverance) from their peyshaim (rebellions).
Matthew 1:21 (Hebraic Roots Bible)
And she will bear a son, and you shall call His name Yahshua, for He shall save His people from their sins. (Ex 23:21, Acts 4:12)
Matthew 1:21 (Complete Jewish Bible)
She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, [which means Adonai saves,] because he will save his people from their sins.
[SIZE=+1]"Yeshua" is the name used by today's messianic believers when referring to the Messiah. >>> The "Ye" was a replacement of "Yah" to avoid pronouncing the Father's name even in its shortened, poetic form [a traditional Jewish restriction that began at the time of the Babylonian exile] <<< Using Yeshua does not honor Yahweh as intended in Matthew 1:21 above. By pronouncing Yahshua, we state that Yahweh is salvation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]>>> It's OK to pronounce Yahweh, but not Yahshua <<< [/SIZE]
It's OK to pronounce Yahweh, but not Yahshua <<< [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]The pronunciation of
varies among different groups. Since the Hebrew spelling is exactly the same as "Joshua", the son of Nun, some people pronounce it as "Joshua" with a "Y" sound - Yahshua; the "Y" would be the correct sound.[/SIZE]
Yahshua son of Yahweh ... (link for above info)
יהושע
phoenetic similar between Yah-weh and Yah-shua ... Father and Son
phoenetic simular between Yah-u-weh and Yah-u-shua ... Father and Son
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For the last time (from me) on this thread:
Pronouncing ישוע as "Yahshua" is fantasy.
"Ye" in Aramaic is not a replacement of "Yah" in Hebrew. It's like saying that "la" in French is a replacement of "lo" in Hebrew.
If you indefatigably wish to continue the propagation a persistent, uneducated, single-minded, charlatan's-mistake: Be my guest.
I am resolved that you will continue to insist upon making that mistake even if God himself were to come down and introduce himself to you on a first-name basis.
Heaven forbid.
I'm done here.
Pronouncing ישוע as "Yahshua" is fantasy.
"Ye" in Aramaic is not a replacement of "Yah" in Hebrew. It's like saying that "la" in French is a replacement of "lo" in Hebrew.
If you indefatigably wish to continue the propagation a persistent, uneducated, single-minded, charlatan's-mistake: Be my guest.
I am resolved that you will continue to insist upon making that mistake even if God himself were to come down and introduce himself to you on a first-name basis.
Heaven forbid.
I'm done here.
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