Heaven

[John Hyperspace]

I agree with you that the abstract is actually more real than the concrete. The soul, or essence is the real you- not your body. But I believe that the soul, or consciousness or essence goes on to live in Heaven or Hell, I don't know where they are- but I believe that they are real places.

Bear in mind, I'm not saying these things aren't real. As if I say, spirit exists in the mind, and not the carnal world; people sometimes say "I think they're real" as if I'm saying "They don't exist" or "Are not real" when this is not what I'm saying. As I said, abstract is as real as empirical; just as immaterial is as real as material - just, not the same "kind" of real.

 

[Galatea]

Bear in mind, I'm not saying these things aren't real. As if I say, spirit exists in the mind, and not the carnal world; people sometimes say "I think they're real" as if I'm saying "They don't exist" or "Are not real" when this is not what I'm saying. As I said, abstract is as real as empirical; just as immaterial is as real as material - just, not the same "kind" of real.

I understood you to say the spirit is real- or even more real than the sensual part of us. I thought you meant that Heaven and Hell are not empirical places but a state of mind. I think that is true, here. But not after death. I misunderstood what you meant by Heaven and Hell.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I understood you to say the spirit is real- or even more real than the sensual part of us. I thought you meant that Heaven and Hell are not empirical places but a state of mind. I think that is true, here. But not after death. I misunderstood what you meant by Heaven and Hell.

I am actually meaning they aren't empirical places, they are of the mind, just as consciousness is of the mind. And real. I suppose it may be difficult to convey in words.

 

[Galatea]

I am actually meaning they aren't empirical places, they are of the mind, just as consciousness is of the mind. And real. I suppose it may be difficult to convey in words.

I suppose you might mean a state of mind?

 

[John Hyperspace]

I suppose you might mean a state of mind?

True, but that also will determine your reality, as well; you know? Even the sensual world will "appear" differently depending on your state of mind and being. It's all connected to the mind. But, what I mean: if you can imagine a vista "in your mind" - then that vista is real. You are perceiving it, and it is as real as any other real thing. But it isn't empirically real. It is abtractly real; but real just the same. Abstract feelings are also real. We have sensual feeling through touch, which is an abstract feeling. You can't "touch" the feeling you get from "touching"; you can't touch abstract feelings like, love. But they're real.

I suppose we're so entwined with the carnal world that it's difficult to remove the influence it has over our current perception; but the carnal world isn't really all that real. More like a "shadowy world" of the very image of the world in abstraction. At any rate, suffice it to say, consciousness is real. It can't "stop being" after the removal of the sensual body. It must still be, and without a sensual form it must be experiencing a completely abstract existence.

But, again, I do believe that there will be a sensual "heaven" in the resurrection. But, it will really be a creation, an earth, that is free from the curse. We could call it "heaven" but that would be somewhat of a biblical misnomer: it would still be "earth" but the "heaven" aspect would be in our state of mind and being in that "restored" earth.

 

[Galatea]

I understand what you mean, now. The New Earth.

 

[Sammy-San]

I feel rather chagrined about making a thread speculating about Hell, especially since it is not our final destination. It's a bit like wondering about a country you don't intend to visit. I'd rather talk about Heaven and some of the things we hope we'll get to do or see.

Here's a thought I had. Do you think Heaven is infinite?

 

[Galatea]

Here's a thought I had. Do you think Heaven is infinite?

Yes

 

[Sammy-San]

Yes

Do you think Heaven is eternal like God or it was a created place?

 

[FireHeart]

In heaven everything is completely different than from here, the plants and trees and the flowers are far more healthy far more beautiful far more vivid the grass is a deep luscious green and feels like silk on your skin the flowers colors and their beauty are far more advanced than you will ever see here on earth and their fragrance reaches out further than the norm on earth and is like honey to your senses even sniffing them fills you with life.

The water that you see there is a radiating shining blue it shines with God's life it's taste is more delicious than anything your taste buds will experience here being in the water feels absolutely un describable it fills you up with peace life and heals the inner wounds and the outer wounds it's as if you took a breath of life for the first time the water makes you clean and spotless and when you look at water on earth the water looks dead the water in heaven even makes your own body glow a golden color as if your skin is enriched with God's love and life.

In heaven there is food and drink that both exist here and don't but all of it is so much more amazing even a piece of bread is more scrumptious than the finest foods here just looking at the feast of foods and drinks will make your mouth water and if you take a single bite you will never again crave the food here on earth.

Heaven is filled with God's presence he is everywhere but more than that heaven is filled with communion with him that you could never have while your alive on earth and there are creatures there that you have never seen or even knew could exist there is beauty of other things that only exist there things that the human mind could never imagine or comprehend

 

[Galatea]

Do you think Heaven is eternal like God or it was a created place?

Both- created, but an eternal creation. I don't think it ends, but it had a beginning. I don't think it is without beginning or end, like God- but He created it.
I know that it would not be Heaven without God. No matter how wonderful, He is the centerpiece. The unending Light. The Bible says there is no darkness in Heaven because He is there.

 

[Galatea]

In heaven everything is completely different than from here, the plants and trees and the flowers are far more healthy far more beautiful far more vivid the grass is a deep luscious green and feels like silk on your skin the flowers colors and their beauty are far more advanced than you will ever see here on earth and their fragrance reaches out further than the norm on earth and is like honey to your senses even sniffing them fills you with life.

The water that you see there is a radiating shining blue it shines with God's life it's taste is more delicious than anything your taste buds will experience here being in the water feels absolutely un describable it fills you up with peace life and heals the inner wounds and the outer wounds it's as if you took a breath of life for the first time the water makes you clean and spotless and when you look at water on earth the water looks dead the water in heaven even makes your own body glow a golden color as if your skin is enriched with God's love and life.

In heaven there is food and drink that both exist here and don't but all of it is so much more amazing even a piece of bread is more scrumptious than the finest foods here just looking at the feast of foods and drinks will make your mouth water and if you take a single bite you will never again crave the food here on earth.

Heaven is filled with God's presence he is everywhere but more than that heaven is filled with communion with him that you could never have while your alive on earth and there are creatures there that you have never seen or even knew could exist there is beauty of other things that only exist there things that the human mind could never imagine or comprehend

I agree with everything you posted. I often think about the music of Heaven, what it will sound like- and the colors. There are so many colors we can't see here.
I like what you wrote about creatures we don't know about. This is kind of an offbeat idea, but I think that in Heaven the imaginary creatures that man has devised are there. Like I think there are fairies, mermaids, unicorns, etc. Who knows?

Have you heard the hymn "Where the Roses Never Fade"? We had it sung at my grandmother's funeral because she loved roses so much. The line is, "Here they bloom but for a season, soon their beauty is decayed. I am going to a city where the roses never fade." My mother and I talk about my grandmother being there in a rose garden.

 

[Sammy-San]

Both- created, but an eternal creation. I don't think it ends, but it had a beginning. I don't think it is without beginning or end, like God- but He created it.
I know that it would not be Heaven without God. No matter how wonderful, He is the centerpiece. The unending Light. The Bible says there is no darkness in Heaven because He is there.

How can a place be infinite? To me that is beyond mind boggling.

However, if heaven was infinite, and there was something past it, like an invisible wall, do you think that would be even more mind boggling?

 

[Galatea]

How can a place be infinite? To me that is beyond mind boggling.

However, if heaven was infinite, and there was something past it, like an invisible wall, do you think that would be even more mind boggling?

Heaven is mind boggling. I heard someone say that they can understand why there's a Hell- but what is truly mind boggling is why there's a Heaven!

I don't understand what you mean by a wall being past Heaven.

 

[FireHeart]

I agree with everything you posted. I often think about the music of Heaven, what it will sound like- and the colors. There are so many colors we can't see here.
I like what you wrote about creatures we don't know about. This is kind of an offbeat idea, but I think that in Heaven the imaginary creatures that man has devised are there. Like I think there are fairies, mermaids, unicorns, etc. Who knows?

Have you heard the hymn "Where the Roses Never Fade"? We had it sung at my grandmother's funeral because she loved roses so much. The line is, "Here they bloom but for a season, soon their beauty is decayed. I am going to a city where the roses never fade." My mother and I talk about my grandmother being there in a rose garden.

Yes there are creatures such as that everything that you can imagine you will even see dragons there beautiful ones that you can be friends with the Lord knows peoples hearts and he places things there that would fancy their desires but also there are creatures there that we have never heard of or seen and if we saw them as we are now living in this fleshly body they would appear bizarre to us even scary but that is only because we have never seen such things with these eyes

I have never heard of that hymn before but your grandmother is blessed to be home no doubt she is in that rose garden with Jesus as we speak

 

[Galatea]

Yes there are creatures such as that everything that you can imagine you will even see dragons there beautiful ones that you can be friends with the Lord knows peoples hearts and he places things there that would fancy their desires but also there are creatures there that we have never heard of or seen and if we saw them as we are now living in this fleshly body they would appear bizarre to us even scary but that is only because we have never seen such things with these eyes

I have never heard of that hymn before but your grandmother is blessed to be home no doubt she is in that rose garden with Jesus as we speak

I know she is there, too.

I agree with you about the creatures. I think we will be surprised by the things we will find in Heaven.

 

[dqhall]

I recall part of the Lord's Prayer, "on earth as it is in heaven." The here and now require more attention than some far away place, or some time in the future when things might be better. For a long time I waited for the future to save me. Things only got worse. Am not sure what happened since, but I think of achieving short term goals and that takes care of today. Can be grateful for the things I have received.

 

[Galatea]

I recall part of the Lord's Prayer, "on earth as it is in heaven." The here and now require more attention than some far away place, or some time in the future when things might be better. For a long time I waited for the future to save me. Things only got worse. Am not sure what happened since, but I think of achieving short term goals and that takes care of today. Can be grateful for the things I have received.

Yes, there is a danger in being so Heavenly minded you are no Earthly good. But, the majority of our existence will be in eternity. If we have a long life, that is maybe 100 years here on Earth. We will live forever in Heaven, I think it's alright to give Home a thought or two and wonder about the place He has gone to prepare for us. Jesus said to store up our treasures in Heaven. It's good to think on, and to know there is a place beyond this sad, sick world. A place where children are not abused, where no one is sick, no one is sinful, everyone is finally at their full potential- like God intended. It is sweet to think about Home. Most of all, it is sweet to think about where Jesus is and being able to see Him and thank Him in person for what He did for us on the cross. These are things that are good, pure, lovely, and He told us to think on these things.

 

[dqhall]

Yes, there is a danger in being so Heavenly minded you are no Earthly good. But, the majority of our existence will be in eternity. If we have a long life, that is maybe 100 years here on Earth. We will live forever in Heaven, I think it's alright to give Home a thought or two and wonder about the place He has gone to prepare for us. Jesus said to store up our treasures in Heaven. It's good to think on, and to know there is a place beyond this sad, sick world. A place where children are not abused, where no one is sick, no one is sinful, everyone is finally at their full potential- like God intended. It is sweet to think about Home. Most of all, it is sweet to think about where Jesus is and being able to see Him and thank Him in person for what He did for us on the cross. These are things that are good, pure, lovely, and He told us to think on these things.

One thing to consider is making the world a better place before counting on being invited to a new heaven and earth. I think God will complete its construction in time. There is not much evidence of a parallel universe. If God has a perfect universe somewhere else, why would God toil with this imperfect world? Sure there have been improvements through the years with mercy and grace leading to technological achievement. People love one another and try to pick each other up when they fall. If I love my life here too much I might lose it. Visitation is important for people need to hear and learn from others. Getting the right information and giving the correct facts is also important as false testimony is about useless. Let me not waste my time in day dreams about heaven, for this earth is in heaven.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

I believe Heaven will be completely different in every way, shape and form from what we know now, and yet will not be. Eternal communion with God is not something we can easily grasp.

It is perhaps like a line on a page as opposed to a novel or a single dot as opposed to an oil painting. We will be ourselves, yet more ourselves than we ever could be.

I am not even sure if it would be material in a sense we understand or even spiritual. I would think arbitrary definitions like Material and Spiritual or Concrete and Ephemeral would by necessity break down. I doubt very much we can envision heaven with any clarity, like we would fail if we tried envisioning a new colour. This is why we borrow metaphors from our earthly existence to try and describe the indescribable.

It is basically a divine mystery, but one to fervently hope for.