Heaven or Hell...?

[Original Happy Camper]

or if it/they talks about things they clearly know very little to nothing truly about, etc...

that is an amazing statement... are you full of wisdom?

 

[Neogaia777]

If it helps, I have learned to be honest with Him about my shortcomings.

I realised I lacked deep concern for the lost.

So I prayed and asked God to correct this.

A couple of nights later I had a dream/vision of walking hand in hand with an angel to the very rim of the pit. It was horrific - the stench, the overwhelming depravity - I said desperately do I have to go any closer... the deed was done...

I shared this a few weeks later in a church - you could have heard a pin drop...

Balance this realisation with His enormous Love and patience, and being always a just judge and you have to trust that He only eternally seals the fate of those who refuse His presence. In that He will not force Himself on anyone.

But yet who does not sense the perplexing drama before our eyes - Billions headed for a Loveless eternity - This is beyond comprehension yet clearly spelt out in His Word.

This matter is way beyond words and our salvation all the more a mystery that the gift of life should be manifest in us - not the deserving - yet chosen.

He will certainly have a throng of sons and daughters forever grateful.

I mean no offense, but I put very little faith in visions and dreams, they could be caused by "any kind of thing" really... And even if and when they are actually meant to be a "message" of some kind, they are still meant to interpreted spiritually and not taken literally, or as things in them being the exact actual physical things in them, etc, even if and when they are or may be meant to be a message, etc... Which is very rare, etc... Like I said, most of the time they can be or come from or be caused or provoked by "any kind of thing" really, by our own fears/trepidations, etc, or even sometimes even "indigestion" or what we ate the night before, etc... But, that being said, etc, even if and when they are meant to be a message, they are most of the time not, even then, not meant to be taken "exactly literally", etc, or things in them as being the very exact things physically, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

that is an amazing statement... are you full of wisdom?

No, but I did look at it, and it talks about things that I think they only think they know about for sure, etc...

And another one of my points is, no ever dares questions it or them or that ever either, etc...? If it only "sounds good", it must be good, right...? Or true or whatever, right...?

Sorry, but I don't put too much faith in that or those kinds of things, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Carl Emerson]

I mean no offense, but I put very little faith in visions and dreams, they could be caused by "any kind of thing" really... And even if and when they are actually meant to be a "message" of some kind, they are still meant to interpreted spiritually and not taken literally, or as things in them being the exact actual physical things in them, etc, even if and when they are or may be meant to be a message, etc... Which is very rare, etc... Like I said, most of the time they can be or come from or be caused or provoked by "any kind of thing" really, by our own fears/trepidations, etc, or even sometimes even "indigestion" or what we ate the night before, etc... But, that being said, etc, even if and when they are meant to be a message, they are most of the time not, even then, not meant to be taken "exactly literally", etc, or things in them as being the very exact things physically, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Well one thing for sure... it changed my attitudes permanently and annihilated my indifference to the plight of the lost.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Sorry, but I don't put too much faith in that or those kinds of things, etc...

So that I understand you is it okay to assume you trust the word of GOD (the bible)

 

[Neogaia777]

Well one thing for sure... it changed my attitudes permanently and annihilated my indifference to the plight of the lost.

Well, it very well could have been a "message" and if it was, it looks like you got the message or the point anyway, etc...

And that's what's more important anyway, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

So that I understand you is it okay to assume you trust the word of GOD (the bible)

It's one of the only things I go by...

God Bless!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It's one of the only things I go by...

God Bless!

and what are the other things you go by?

 

[Neogaia777]

and what are the other things you go by?

Not much really, and I would say I go by way much more less more "other things", or other people than say, "you do", or someone like you does or do, etc...

And I do not say that to offend or insult you or anyone, just that it is probably more than likely "very true", etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Not much really, and I would say I go by way much more less more "other things", or other people than say, "you do", or someone like you does or do, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

for me it is he KJV of the bible and history

prophecy is history foretold
history is prophecy fulfilled

 

[miggles]

from what i understand, there are 2 hells. one is a lake of fire for the devil and his demons. the other is eternal darkness for un-repented humans. eternal darkness is a vast region of darkness, like the universe with no stars or planets. it's pitch black. you wander around for eternity in it, conscious and totally alone and nothing to do. it's nothingness. like a conscious death.

 

[Anthony2019]

As far as predestination goes, I don't think of it in terms of God deciding from the beginning who or who will not be saved, but because God is all-knowing, I believe He has foreknowledge of who or who will not accept Jesus and who will remain faithful to Him.

What will happen to those who reject Christ in this life. Will they be given another chance to repent and believe the gospel? I, for one, cannot find a single scripture to support this view, but I do believe that the central characteristic of God is that of perfect justice and unfailing love.

The fate of the unbeliever is something I leave to the love and wisdom of God. The purpose of my life, in the here and now, is to serve God by reaching out to others, including "the least of these", with love, compassion and hope, that they too will come to faith in Christ.

 

[Norbert L]

You have to understand that I don't really believe in free will

I admit to only reading over half of your writing. As an author once told me about her book on her son dying young, it was more for her benefit to flesh out her thoughts on paper to gain closure on a topic, which can be reduced to the simple fact of coping with death.

Your belief is transmitting the dismissal and even perhaps taking away the hope of people who struggle with their sin til their end. Matthew 24:13 Alcoholics do turn sober, drug users get clean, people will control their weight and spouses stop their adultery. The thief on the cross beside Christ. Luke 23:43 These are honorable and godly goals in life for people to pursue right up till their last breath because when you look at addictions/sin, the vast majority take several attempts and time to overcome.

I see the no free will argument as the thief in the night robbing people of their chance at belief in Christ and leaving them with an empty house of unbelief. It's a thorn that can grow around believers and choke their belief in Jesus. It's a road that leads to hell and not to the kingdom of Heaven.

 

[LiquidCat]

I know this post is kind of long, but please take the time to read the whole thing as it's all important, or don't bother commenting please, K...

OK, where do I begin...?

I've been getting a lot of "revelations" of late so it's hard to know where to begin...?

I guess I should start off by telling you what I think "Hell" is...?

I have come to the realization that "Hell" is, or is for, "people who are never meant for anything more than "this", ever, "forever", etc"... and that is my most basic definition of what "Hell" is and the people who are meant for it, etc...

I guess you could say that, when they die, they kind of "cease to exist", or be awake or conscious for a time, and then are only brought back when this creation has ended and a new one has begun, and are only brought back (to "life") (again), to only exist (again), much like exactly what they were and as they were and/or are, but "were" or were like "before", etc, in the previous creation prior to that (again) before (that), etc... Then, when they die in that one, (again), they (again) cease to exist or be awake or conscious for a time (again), and are only brought back (to "supposed" "life") (again) when then that creation has (once again) ended and a new one has begun (again) (etc) to only exist (again) much like exactly what and as they were (before) (again) in that/the previous creation (before) prior to that, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc... And that "cycle" basically repeats for them, over and over, "forever", etc, ("forever" as far as we know, etc)...

It is what Hell is, (to me anyway)...

But, those who go to Heaven get to go "beyond" "this", or get to go and/or above and/or beyond these kinds of places or these types of realities/existences, etc, to a place where they never "sleep" or cease to exist for periods of time (like the others do) ever again, etc... We might say they get to "transcend" while others don't, or do not ever get to, etc, and do not ever get to ever, "forever", etc...

Why am I telling you this...? I don't know really other than it has really been bothering me very much lately, etc... And it's been bothering me because I think it might only be the "few" who get to "transcend" or get to go, or be, or get to exist "beyond", or ever get to go or exist outside/beyond/above of just only (more of) "this" only, etc, anyway I think it might be only the "few" who get to do that, etc...

And it "bothers me", and "bothers me" very very much because...? Well...?

You have to understand that I don't really believe in free will, or multiple possibilities or way things can or will, or won't or will, or will or will not go or be... anyway, I don't really believe in free will or multiple possibilities or way things can go/be, etc, based on only our own will or choosing alone, or don't believe that hardly at all, etc, but only by only God's will and His own choosing or not (our own) choosing alone, etc, and we don't really have a will of our own, ever, not really anyway...

I think God has already chosen for us, and does dictate, and has "already dictated" already, or already chose already, everything for us already, etc, and did it or all of it/ that (already) from a long, long, long time ago, or before anything (else) is or ever was, etc, most especially including everything having to do with "us", etc...

You must understand that I believe we do not ever choose ever, not really anyway, but that God has "already chosen for us", etc, (from a long, long time ago, etc) including having already chosen (from a long, long time ago, etc) who will or will not be chosen for either, this Heaven that I speak of, or else this "Hell" that I speak or spoke of, etc, and that He (God) has already dictated or made that or those choices for us and for all of us, etc... And as I said, lately my head has been filled with thoughts that, those that/who He has (already) chosen for Heaven, or that He has (already) chosen to be one among His (already) "chosen ones" for Heaven, anyway, will be "few", or maybe even "very few", or at least not the majority at least anyway, etc...

I have come to the realization that "I" am one of the ones, or am one of the ones to be counted among the ones, who are, or were, or have, already been chosen by Him (God) to be one of the ones chosen by Him to be going to Heaven, or will be one of the ones transcending when I am done here, etc... and I would be happy about it, but it's actually quite disturbing and unsettling to or for me when I think about all the very numerous "others" who might not be, or might not ever be going beyond this life, or these lives, or these kinds of lives or realities or existences ever, etc, "forever", etc...

It's not something you can rejoice over when you realize how many may be...? well, "damned" basically, etc... And how you also know it is not in any kind of way whatsoever, ever at all, in any kind of way ever or whatsoever, ever, because of "you" in any way ever, etc...

That it is only because God chose (you) (if your a chosen one by Him), and never because (you) chose (you), or "saved" and/or delivered or made yourself destined for Heaven in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc, but that He and only He alone did or already did/have or has ever, etc, and it's never because of you ever, etc, and never because of you "either way", etc, whether you to go to this Heaven that I speak of (after this, etc) or go to this kind of Hell that I speak of, etc... It is all because of God and His choosing "either way" and never our own (choosing or making or dictating) ever, but only His choosing or not choosing or dictating ever, etc...

Why did He make the ones that will only get to ever or go, or will only ever get to be, or will only ever exist only in only these kinds realities or existences ever, forever, then, etc...? Well, we'll get to that in a minute, K...

But, the other part of this quandry, (of Him making you or choosing you to be a chosen one (for Heaven) which is not at at all in any way because yourself ever, etc), anyway, the other part of this quandry is that, "you know that you know that you know" there is "absolutely no difference between you and them ever, etc... and certainly not any kind of any kind of "better" difference that you are responsible for in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc... and if you were to judge yourself as one of the chosen ones for Heaven, you may even be actually "worse" than some or many of them in some or a lot of ways maybe, etc... So, on what kind of basis does He choose or make some only for one kind of place and others for another kind of place, etc...? Because there seems to absolutely no rhyme or reason to it if you ask me...

There is an "us" and "them" and an "us and them" but you know there is no kind of better or worse difference between "us and them", yet there is still and "us and them" regardless, etc... and you also know that not only is there not ever anything better about the ones chosen to be the "us chosen over them", by Him, etc, but you also know that it is, or never ever was ever because of, or ever due to something of your own choosing or making ever, etc, but only because of only God and God only ever, and God's and God's only choosing or making ever, and not ever us or just your own only ever, etc...

Now this is what I've been wrestling with...? His choosing or not choosing or whatever, or His making some for one place or purpose only, while making others for another purpose or the other place when they die possibly only, etc, anyway, if there is no difference at all between them (or us) (or us and them, etc) and it is all only ever based on only the way He (already) made or (already) chose each one of us (to be) only ever, etc, anyway, it doesn't make any kind of sense at all to me at all ever, and I can't "figure it out" at all ever, etc...? And my heart hurts and hurts a lot for the others that may never be or ever have ever been meant for to ever go beyond or ever be anything more than anything beyond this, and/or after this, etc...

One way to know if one is chosen or is a chosen one for Heaven or not, is that His chosen ones are made by Him to seek or follow or pursue or chase after Him (God) and His things and the things of Him and/or surrounding Him with "all that they are" and "all that they have" (and/or possess or are) at some point in their life before they die here, etc... But, are they responsible for that or did they choose that themselves for an by themselves in any way at all whatsoever? No, they did not... But God already chose that for them or made them that way, or to destined or made them to be or become that way at some point in their life/lives before they die or leave here, etc, and did that from "before the foundations or the beginnings of the world and/or creation or this universe at some point before they die here", etc...

Anyway, the point I want to get to is, His choosing/electing/predestining or presdestinating from before the foundations or beginnings of the world or this creation or this universe makes "absolutely no sense at all to me", but I nevertheless know it just "is", etc, or is this or that way, etc...?

There's nothing different, nothing better or worse or any more or less special or whatever between us or between you and/or me and/or them, etc... and even if there ever were or was, or is, it's not something that we would or did or have ever chosen or did for ourselves ever, but was only something God already chose or did for us from a very, very, very very very, long long time ago, etc...

If you don't ever seek after or pursue or seek or ever go hard and very hard after God and/or the things (wisdom/knowledge) of God in your life ever, then I would have some serious doubts if you are or ever were ever truly made and/or were ever chosen by God to get to go beyond or be meant for anything more than just more of this ever, forever, etc, which is my definition of Hell if you ask me...

Why did He make and or create those who are never meant to anything more than or ever go beyond or exist for anything more than just more of this ever, etc...? He has told me that part of the reason for His making or having those others is that He made those others to cause His chosen ones to come or rise up and/or come up about and become known, etc, to or before certain "onlookers", or witnesses, etc... To kind of help create or make them (His true chosen ones, etc)... Qualify them for Heaven in the sight of all, etc...

I hurt very much so for those that maybe may not ever be, or that have not been ever been meant for going to or toward or for going beyond anything more than just this, or just more of just this, ever, and forever, etc... And I don't know at all on what basis God chooses or makes them (us) (all or any of us) any different at all from one another either, etc... which I am sometimes tempted to "take issue" with Him about sometimes, though I know now that I both am, and was a long long time ago, chosen, or am one of the ones already chosen by Him, etc, to go or be or exist for or beyond way very much more than just more of this ever, etc, and forever, etc, or for Heaven, etc...

How can one be happy about it, when you know that it just may be a or the or a few only, etc...? It wouldn't be right to complain about it, but it is also not right to feel very happy about it at all ever either, etc... And you sorely tempted to take or have some serious issue and/or issues with God about it sometimes as well, but that would be "complaining" now wouldn't it...

Anyway, I may add more to this later or more thoroughly expound on some of these thoughts a little bit later on, but, for now, "there it is", I guess, taken all in all for what it is, etc...

God Bless!

Nah Hell is real place of eternal torment , is good that people will be tortured forever plus you will have wiped memory and you will not remember bad things or them burning there.
If you hurt for people who go to hell then you are just like them because you don't understand that they go there for a reason , not punishing crime is crime itself you are partaker of what they did if you let them do it and not seek vengeance and justice for it.

Why God bother creating people who would go to hell ? First of all he did not he created Adam and Eve from Adam , we are creating souls . Second probably somebody in your family down the line to Adam was unbeliever if he was not created you simply would not be there easy as that.

Why God choose to create world where only "few" people would be saved , compared to majority who will suffer ? Maybe it was only world he could create giving man free will , and if for him 99% going to hell is worth having 1% believers with him then it's ok since he is the Judge and he make the calls not us.
If you think that you would do better you put yourself above God.

 

[lsume]

I know this post is kind of long, but please take the time to read the whole thing as it's all important, or don't bother commenting please, K...

OK, where do I begin...?

I've been getting a lot of "revelations" of late so it's hard to know where to begin...?

I guess I should start off by telling you what I think "Hell" is...?

I have come to the realization that "Hell" is, or is for, "people who are never meant for anything more than "this", ever, "forever", etc"... and that is my most basic definition of what "Hell" is and the people who are meant for it, etc...

I guess you could say that, when they die, they kind of "cease to exist", or be awake or conscious for a time, and then are only brought back when this creation has ended and a new one has begun, and are only brought back (to "life") (again), to only exist (again), much like exactly what they were and as they were and/or are, but "were" or were like "before", etc, in the previous creation prior to that (again) before (that), etc... Then, when they die in that one, (again), they (again) cease to exist or be awake or conscious for a time (again), and are only brought back (to "supposed" "life") (again) when then that creation has (once again) ended and a new one has begun (again) (etc) to only exist (again) much like exactly what and as they were (before) (again) in that/the previous creation (before) prior to that, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc... And that "cycle" basically repeats for them, over and over, "forever", etc, ("forever" as far as we know, etc)...

It is what Hell is, (to me anyway)...

But, those who go to Heaven get to go "beyond" "this", or get to go and/or above and/or beyond these kinds of places or these types of realities/existences, etc, to a place where they never "sleep" or cease to exist for periods of time (like the others do) ever again, etc... We might say they get to "transcend" while others don't, or do not ever get to, etc, and do not ever get to ever, "forever", etc...

Why am I telling you this...? I don't know really other than it has really been bothering me very much lately, etc... And it's been bothering me because I think it might only be the "few" who get to "transcend" or get to go, or be, or get to exist "beyond", or ever get to go or exist outside/beyond/above of just only (more of) "this" only, etc, anyway I think it might be only the "few" who get to do that, etc...

And it "bothers me", and "bothers me" very very much because...? Well...?

You have to understand that I don't really believe in free will, or multiple possibilities or way things can or will, or won't or will, or will or will not go or be... anyway, I don't really believe in free will or multiple possibilities or way things can go/be, etc, based on only our own will or choosing alone, or don't believe that hardly at all, etc, but only by only God's will and His own choosing or not (our own) choosing alone, etc, and we don't really have a will of our own, ever, not really anyway...

I think God has already chosen for us, and does dictate, and has "already dictated" already, or already chose already, everything for us already, etc, and did it or all of it/ that (already) from a long, long, long time ago, or before anything (else) is or ever was, etc, most especially including everything having to do with "us", etc...

You must understand that I believe we do not ever choose ever, not really anyway, but that God has "already chosen for us", etc, (from a long, long time ago, etc) including having already chosen (from a long, long time ago, etc) who will or will not be chosen for either, this Heaven that I speak of, or else this "Hell" that I speak or spoke of, etc, and that He (God) has already dictated or made that or those choices for us and for all of us, etc... And as I said, lately my head has been filled with thoughts that, those that/who He has (already) chosen for Heaven, or that He has (already) chosen to be one among His (already) "chosen ones" for Heaven, anyway, will be "few", or maybe even "very few", or at least not the majority at least anyway, etc...

I have come to the realization that "I" am one of the ones, or am one of the ones to be counted among the ones, who are, or were, or have, already been chosen by Him (God) to be one of the ones chosen by Him to be going to Heaven, or will be one of the ones transcending when I am done here, etc... and I would be happy about it, but it's actually quite disturbing and unsettling to or for me when I think about all the very numerous "others" who might not be, or might not ever be going beyond this life, or these lives, or these kinds of lives or realities or existences ever, etc, "forever", etc...

It's not something you can rejoice over when you realize how many may be...? well, "damned" basically, etc... And how you also know it is not in any kind of way whatsoever, ever at all, in any kind of way ever or whatsoever, ever, because of "you" in any way ever, etc...

That it is only because God chose (you) (if your a chosen one by Him), and never because (you) chose (you), or "saved" and/or delivered or made yourself destined for Heaven in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc, but that He and only He alone did or already did/have or has ever, etc, and it's never because of you ever, etc, and never because of you "either way", etc, whether you to go to this Heaven that I speak of (after this, etc) or go to this kind of Hell that I speak of, etc... It is all because of God and His choosing "either way" and never our own (choosing or making or dictating) ever, but only His choosing or not choosing or dictating ever, etc...

Why did He make the ones that will only get to ever or go, or will only ever get to be, or will only ever exist only in only these kinds realities or existences ever, forever, then, etc...? Well, we'll get to that in a minute, K...

But, the other part of this quandry, (of Him making you or choosing you to be a chosen one (for Heaven) which is not at at all in any way because yourself ever, etc), anyway, the other part of this quandry is that, "you know that you know that you know" there is "absolutely no difference between you and them ever, etc... and certainly not any kind of any kind of "better" difference that you are responsible for in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc... and if you were to judge yourself as one of the chosen ones for Heaven, you may even be actually "worse" than some or many of them in some or a lot of ways maybe, etc... So, on what kind of basis does He choose or make some only for one kind of place and others for another kind of place, etc...? Because there seems to absolutely no rhyme or reason to it if you ask me...

There is an "us" and "them" and an "us and them" but you know there is no kind of better or worse difference between "us and them", yet there is still and "us and them" regardless, etc... and you also know that not only is there not ever anything better about the ones chosen to be the "us chosen over them", by Him, etc, but you also know that it is, or never ever was ever because of, or ever due to something of your own choosing or making ever, etc, but only because of only God and God only ever, and God's and God's only choosing or making ever, and not ever us or just your own only ever, etc...

Now this is what I've been wrestling with...? His choosing or not choosing or whatever, or His making some for one place or purpose only, while making others for another purpose or the other place when they die possibly only, etc, anyway, if there is no difference at all between them (or us) (or us and them, etc) and it is all only ever based on only the way He (already) made or (already) chose each one of us (to be) only ever, etc, anyway, it doesn't make any kind of sense at all to me at all ever, and I can't "figure it out" at all ever, etc...? And my heart hurts and hurts a lot for the others that may never be or ever have ever been meant for to ever go beyond or ever be anything more than anything beyond this, and/or after this, etc...

One way to know if one is chosen or is a chosen one for Heaven or not, is that His chosen ones are made by Him to seek or follow or pursue or chase after Him (God) and His things and the things of Him and/or surrounding Him with "all that they are" and "all that they have" (and/or possess or are) at some point in their life before they die here, etc... But, are they responsible for that or did they choose that themselves for an by themselves in any way at all whatsoever? No, they did not... But God already chose that for them or made them that way, or to destined or made them to be or become that way at some point in their life/lives before they die or leave here, etc, and did that from "before the foundations or the beginnings of the world and/or creation or this universe at some point before they die here", etc...

Anyway, the point I want to get to is, His choosing/electing/predestining or presdestinating from before the foundations or beginnings of the world or this creation or this universe makes "absolutely no sense at all to me", but I nevertheless know it just "is", etc, or is this or that way, etc...?

There's nothing different, nothing better or worse or any more or less special or whatever between us or between you and/or me and/or them, etc... and even if there ever were or was, or is, it's not something that we would or did or have ever chosen or did for ourselves ever, but was only something God already chose or did for us from a very, very, very very very, long long time ago, etc...

If you don't ever seek after or pursue or seek or ever go hard and very hard after God and/or the things (wisdom/knowledge) of God in your life ever, then I would have some serious doubts if you are or ever were ever truly made and/or were ever chosen by God to get to go beyond or be meant for anything more than just more of this ever, forever, etc, which is my definition of Hell if you ask me...

Why did He make and or create those who are never meant to anything more than or ever go beyond or exist for anything more than just more of this ever, etc...? He has told me that part of the reason for His making or having those others is that He made those others to cause His chosen ones to come or rise up and/or come up about and become known, etc, to or before certain "onlookers", or witnesses, etc... To kind of help create or make them (His true chosen ones, etc)... Qualify them for Heaven in the sight of all, etc...

I hurt very much so for those that maybe may not ever be, or that have not been ever been meant for going to or toward or for going beyond anything more than just this, or just more of just this, ever, and forever, etc... And I don't know at all on what basis God chooses or makes them (us) (all or any of us) any different at all from one another either, etc... which I am sometimes tempted to "take issue" with Him about sometimes, though I know now that I both am, and was a long long time ago, chosen, or am one of the ones already chosen by Him, etc, to go or be or exist for or beyond way very much more than just more of this ever, etc, and forever, etc, or for Heaven, etc...

How can one be happy about it, when you know that it just may be a or the or a few only, etc...? It wouldn't be right to complain about it, but it is also not right to feel very happy about it at all ever either, etc... And you sorely tempted to take or have some serious issue and/or issues with God about it sometimes as well, but that would be "complaining" now wouldn't it...

Anyway, I may add more to this later or more thoroughly expound on some of these thoughts a little bit later on, but, for now, "there it is", I guess, taken all in all for what it is, etc...

God Bless!

Your dogma is certainly complex. Something that I Truly pray helps you based on your post follows;

Something that every heaven bound Christian must know is The Fear of The Lord. Something else is they must know unconditional Love or Perfect Love. Christ is The Firstborn among many Brethren. Christ was made of quick understanding in The Fear of The Lord.


Isa.11

1. [3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
   
2. Rom.8
3. 1. [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
      
   2. 
      I believe that everyone will get the chance to be saved. In the great and terrible day of The Lord I think we all want to be in heaven in that day.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I don't think Paul was all that well informed as people think.

In spite of him being given "exceeding great revelations"?

People think a lot of things on forums.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I know this post is kind of long, but please take the time to read the whole thing as it's all important, or don't bother commenting please, K...

OK, where do I begin...?

I've been getting a lot of "revelations" of late so it's hard to know where to begin...?

I guess I should start off by telling you what I think "Hell" is...?

I have come to the realization that "Hell" is, or is for, "people who are never meant for anything more than "this", ever, "forever", etc"... and that is my most basic definition of what "Hell" is and the people who are meant for it, etc...

I guess you could say that, when they die, they kind of "cease to exist", or be awake or conscious for a time, and then are only brought back when this creation has ended and a new one has begun, and are only brought back (to "life") (again), to only exist (again), much like exactly what they were and as they were and/or are, but "were" or were like "before", etc, in the previous creation prior to that (again) before (that), etc... Then, when they die in that one, (again), they (again) cease to exist or be awake or conscious for a time (again), and are only brought back (to "supposed" "life") (again) when then that creation has (once again) ended and a new one has begun (again) (etc) to only exist (again) much like exactly what and as they were (before) (again) in that/the previous creation (before) prior to that, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc... And that "cycle" basically repeats for them, over and over, "forever", etc, ("forever" as far as we know, etc)...

It is what Hell is, (to me anyway)...

But, those who go to Heaven get to go "beyond" "this", or get to go and/or above and/or beyond these kinds of places or these types of realities/existences, etc, to a place where they never "sleep" or cease to exist for periods of time (like the others do) ever again, etc... We might say they get to "transcend" while others don't, or do not ever get to, etc, and do not ever get to ever, "forever", etc...

Why am I telling you this...? I don't know really other than it has really been bothering me very much lately, etc... And it's been bothering me because I think it might only be the "few" who get to "transcend" or get to go, or be, or get to exist "beyond", or ever get to go or exist outside/beyond/above of just only (more of) "this" only, etc, anyway I think it might be only the "few" who get to do that, etc...

And it "bothers me", and "bothers me" very very much because...? Well...?

You have to understand that I don't really believe in free will, or multiple possibilities or way things can or will, or won't or will, or will or will not go or be... anyway, I don't really believe in free will or multiple possibilities or way things can go/be, etc, based on only our own will or choosing alone, or don't believe that hardly at all, etc, but only by only God's will and His own choosing or not (our own) choosing alone, etc, and we don't really have a will of our own, ever, not really anyway...

I think God has already chosen for us, and does dictate, and has "already dictated" already, or already chose already, everything for us already, etc, and did it or all of it/ that (already) from a long, long, long time ago, or before anything (else) is or ever was, etc, most especially including everything having to do with "us", etc...

You must understand that I believe we do not ever choose ever, not really anyway, but that God has "already chosen for us", etc, (from a long, long time ago, etc) including having already chosen (from a long, long time ago, etc) who will or will not be chosen for either, this Heaven that I speak of, or else this "Hell" that I speak or spoke of, etc, and that He (God) has already dictated or made that or those choices for us and for all of us, etc... And as I said, lately my head has been filled with thoughts that, those that/who He has (already) chosen for Heaven, or that He has (already) chosen to be one among His (already) "chosen ones" for Heaven, anyway, will be "few", or maybe even "very few", or at least not the majority at least anyway, etc...

I have come to the realization that "I" am one of the ones, or am one of the ones to be counted among the ones, who are, or were, or have, already been chosen by Him (God) to be one of the ones chosen by Him to be going to Heaven, or will be one of the ones transcending when I am done here, etc... and I would be happy about it, but it's actually quite disturbing and unsettling to or for me when I think about all the very numerous "others" who might not be, or might not ever be going beyond this life, or these lives, or these kinds of lives or realities or existences ever, etc, "forever", etc...

It's not something you can rejoice over when you realize how many may be...? well, "damned" basically, etc... And how you also know it is not in any kind of way whatsoever, ever at all, in any kind of way ever or whatsoever, ever, because of "you" in any way ever, etc...

That it is only because God chose (you) (if your a chosen one by Him), and never because (you) chose (you), or "saved" and/or delivered or made yourself destined for Heaven in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc, but that He and only He alone did or already did/have or has ever, etc, and it's never because of you ever, etc, and never because of you "either way", etc, whether you to go to this Heaven that I speak of (after this, etc) or go to this kind of Hell that I speak of, etc... It is all because of God and His choosing "either way" and never our own (choosing or making or dictating) ever, but only His choosing or not choosing or dictating ever, etc...

Why did He make the ones that will only get to ever or go, or will only ever get to be, or will only ever exist only in only these kinds realities or existences ever, forever, then, etc...? Well, we'll get to that in a minute, K...

But, the other part of this quandry, (of Him making you or choosing you to be a chosen one (for Heaven) which is not at at all in any way because yourself ever, etc), anyway, the other part of this quandry is that, "you know that you know that you know" there is "absolutely no difference between you and them ever, etc... and certainly not any kind of any kind of "better" difference that you are responsible for in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc... and if you were to judge yourself as one of the chosen ones for Heaven, you may even be actually "worse" than some or many of them in some or a lot of ways maybe, etc... So, on what kind of basis does He choose or make some only for one kind of place and others for another kind of place, etc...? Because there seems to absolutely no rhyme or reason to it if you ask me...

There is an "us" and "them" and an "us and them" but you know there is no kind of better or worse difference between "us and them", yet there is still and "us and them" regardless, etc... and you also know that not only is there not ever anything better about the ones chosen to be the "us chosen over them", by Him, etc, but you also know that it is, or never ever was ever because of, or ever due to something of your own choosing or making ever, etc, but only because of only God and God only ever, and God's and God's only choosing or making ever, and not ever us or just your own only ever, etc...

Now this is what I've been wrestling with...? His choosing or not choosing or whatever, or His making some for one place or purpose only, while making others for another purpose or the other place when they die possibly only, etc, anyway, if there is no difference at all between them (or us) (or us and them, etc) and it is all only ever based on only the way He (already) made or (already) chose each one of us (to be) only ever, etc, anyway, it doesn't make any kind of sense at all to me at all ever, and I can't "figure it out" at all ever, etc...? And my heart hurts and hurts a lot for the others that may never be or ever have ever been meant for to ever go beyond or ever be anything more than anything beyond this, and/or after this, etc...

One way to know if one is chosen or is a chosen one for Heaven or not, is that His chosen ones are made by Him to seek or follow or pursue or chase after Him (God) and His things and the things of Him and/or surrounding Him with "all that they are" and "all that they have" (and/or possess or are) at some point in their life before they die here, etc... But, are they responsible for that or did they choose that themselves for an by themselves in any way at all whatsoever? No, they did not... But God already chose that for them or made them that way, or to destined or made them to be or become that way at some point in their life/lives before they die or leave here, etc, and did that from "before the foundations or the beginnings of the world and/or creation or this universe at some point before they die here", etc...

Anyway, the point I want to get to is, His choosing/electing/predestining or presdestinating from before the foundations or beginnings of the world or this creation or this universe makes "absolutely no sense at all to me", but I nevertheless know it just "is", etc, or is this or that way, etc...?

There's nothing different, nothing better or worse or any more or less special or whatever between us or between you and/or me and/or them, etc... and even if there ever were or was, or is, it's not something that we would or did or have ever chosen or did for ourselves ever, but was only something God already chose or did for us from a very, very, very very very, long long time ago, etc...

If you don't ever seek after or pursue or seek or ever go hard and very hard after God and/or the things (wisdom/knowledge) of God in your life ever, then I would have some serious doubts if you are or ever were ever truly made and/or were ever chosen by God to get to go beyond or be meant for anything more than just more of this ever, forever, etc, which is my definition of Hell if you ask me...

Why did He make and or create those who are never meant to anything more than or ever go beyond or exist for anything more than just more of this ever, etc...? He has told me that part of the reason for His making or having those others is that He made those others to cause His chosen ones to come or rise up and/or come up about and become known, etc, to or before certain "onlookers", or witnesses, etc... To kind of help create or make them (His true chosen ones, etc)... Qualify them for Heaven in the sight of all, etc...

I hurt very much so for those that maybe may not ever be, or that have not been ever been meant for going to or toward or for going beyond anything more than just this, or just more of just this, ever, and forever, etc... And I don't know at all on what basis God chooses or makes them (us) (all or any of us) any different at all from one another either, etc... which I am sometimes tempted to "take issue" with Him about sometimes, though I know now that I both am, and was a long long time ago, chosen, or am one of the ones already chosen by Him, etc, to go or be or exist for or beyond way very much more than just more of this ever, etc, and forever, etc, or for Heaven, etc...

How can one be happy about it, when you know that it just may be a or the or a few only, etc...? It wouldn't be right to complain about it, but it is also not right to feel very happy about it at all ever either, etc... And you sorely tempted to take or have some serious issue and/or issues with God about it sometimes as well, but that would be "complaining" now wouldn't it...

Anyway, I may add more to this later or more thoroughly expound on some of these thoughts a little bit later on, but, for now, "there it is", I guess, taken all in all for what it is, etc...

God Bless!

Your right , this is a long read! I will set aside your hell revelation but make one quick comment, it sounds eerily like Hindu reincarnation. The rest of your revelation has to do with Calvinism. Now the good news is...one is not the least bit scriptural and the other is merely a theological system.
My guess your struggles are working through the Holy Spirit. The truth will set you free. Continue your search for truth and you should do a VERY deep study on "free will". I will pray for you.
Blessings

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Anyway, there is a very good reason it is called a/the "second death", because those who go to Heaven only die once then never die again, etc, but those who do not go to Heaven, that I have just talked about, etc, will die not only a second time, or experience a second death, but will die a third time, and a fourth time, and a fifth time, etc, etc, etc, and this will be "forever", etc...

This is Hinduism not Christianity.

 

[Lazarus Short]

The opening post has a lot of questions and parentheses...and seems hesitant. I am confused by reading it.

I have noticed some features about "hell" outside the Bible and in the Bible - well those Bibles that even have the word in them, as some do not:

Hell is unmentioned in the various creation accounts.

Hell is not mentioned in the Law that God gave to Moses.

God never threatens anyone with Hell directly.

God never warns anyone of the risk of Hell, but only of simple death.

No individual whose death is mentioned in the Bible is relegated to Hell.

Death in the Bible is simple death with no comment.

Many people subscribe to the Hell of Dante, John Milton and Mary K. Baxter, but none of the four words commonly translated as "hell" mean any such thing.

Most of the support for Hell lies outside the Bible - in works of fiction from epic poems to popular movies.

The very word "hell" and similar terms come from the languages of pagan north Europe, and originally meant much the same as "sheol" and "hades": hidden and covered. "Hell" is a verb as well - to bury potatoes or turnips for preservation is to "hell" them.

 

[RaymondG]

I know this post is kind of long, but please take the time to read the whole thing as it's all important, or don't bother commenting please, K...

OK, where do I begin...?

I've been getting a lot of "revelations" of late so it's hard to know where to begin...?

I guess I should start off by telling you what I think "Hell" is...?

I have come to the realization that "Hell" is, or is for, "people who are never meant for anything more than "this", ever, "forever", etc"... and that is my most basic definition of what "Hell" is and the people who are meant for it, etc...

I guess you could say that, when they die, they kind of "cease to exist", or be awake or conscious for a time, and then are only brought back when this creation has ended and a new one has begun, and are only brought back (to "life") (again), to only exist (again), much like exactly what they were and as they were and/or are, but "were" or were like "before", etc, in the previous creation prior to that (again) before (that), etc... Then, when they die in that one, (again), they (again) cease to exist or be awake or conscious for a time (again), and are only brought back (to "supposed" "life") (again) when then that creation has (once again) ended and a new one has begun (again) (etc) to only exist (again) much like exactly what and as they were (before) (again) in that/the previous creation (before) prior to that, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc... And that "cycle" basically repeats for them, over and over, "forever", etc, ("forever" as far as we know, etc)...

It is what Hell is, (to me anyway)...

But, those who go to Heaven get to go "beyond" "this", or get to go and/or above and/or beyond these kinds of places or these types of realities/existences, etc, to a place where they never "sleep" or cease to exist for periods of time (like the others do) ever again, etc... We might say they get to "transcend" while others don't, or do not ever get to, etc, and do not ever get to ever, "forever", etc...

Why am I telling you this...? I don't know really other than it has really been bothering me very much lately, etc... And it's been bothering me because I think it might only be the "few" who get to "transcend" or get to go, or be, or get to exist "beyond", or ever get to go or exist outside/beyond/above of just only (more of) "this" only, etc, anyway I think it might be only the "few" who get to do that, etc...

And it "bothers me", and "bothers me" very very much because...? Well...?

You have to understand that I don't really believe in free will, or multiple possibilities or way things can or will, or won't or will, or will or will not go or be... anyway, I don't really believe in free will or multiple possibilities or way things can go/be, etc, based on only our own will or choosing alone, or don't believe that hardly at all, etc, but only by only God's will and His own choosing or not (our own) choosing alone, etc, and we don't really have a will of our own, ever, not really anyway...

I think God has already chosen for us, and does dictate, and has "already dictated" already, or already chose already, everything for us already, etc, and did it or all of it/ that (already) from a long, long, long time ago, or before anything (else) is or ever was, etc, most especially including everything having to do with "us", etc...

You must understand that I believe we do not ever choose ever, not really anyway, but that God has "already chosen for us", etc, (from a long, long time ago, etc) including having already chosen (from a long, long time ago, etc) who will or will not be chosen for either, this Heaven that I speak of, or else this "Hell" that I speak or spoke of, etc, and that He (God) has already dictated or made that or those choices for us and for all of us, etc... And as I said, lately my head has been filled with thoughts that, those that/who He has (already) chosen for Heaven, or that He has (already) chosen to be one among His (already) "chosen ones" for Heaven, anyway, will be "few", or maybe even "very few", or at least not the majority at least anyway, etc...

I have come to the realization that "I" am one of the ones, or am one of the ones to be counted among the ones, who are, or were, or have, already been chosen by Him (God) to be one of the ones chosen by Him to be going to Heaven, or will be one of the ones transcending when I am done here, etc... and I would be happy about it, but it's actually quite disturbing and unsettling to or for me when I think about all the very numerous "others" who might not be, or might not ever be going beyond this life, or these lives, or these kinds of lives or realities or existences ever, etc, "forever", etc...

It's not something you can rejoice over when you realize how many may be...? well, "damned" basically, etc... And how you also know it is not in any kind of way whatsoever, ever at all, in any kind of way ever or whatsoever, ever, because of "you" in any way ever, etc...

That it is only because God chose (you) (if your a chosen one by Him), and never because (you) chose (you), or "saved" and/or delivered or made yourself destined for Heaven in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc, but that He and only He alone did or already did/have or has ever, etc, and it's never because of you ever, etc, and never because of you "either way", etc, whether you to go to this Heaven that I speak of (after this, etc) or go to this kind of Hell that I speak of, etc... It is all because of God and His choosing "either way" and never our own (choosing or making or dictating) ever, but only His choosing or not choosing or dictating ever, etc...

Why did He make the ones that will only get to ever or go, or will only ever get to be, or will only ever exist only in only these kinds realities or existences ever, forever, then, etc...? Well, we'll get to that in a minute, K...

But, the other part of this quandry, (of Him making you or choosing you to be a chosen one (for Heaven) which is not at at all in any way because yourself ever, etc), anyway, the other part of this quandry is that, "you know that you know that you know" there is "absolutely no difference between you and them ever, etc... and certainly not any kind of any kind of "better" difference that you are responsible for in any kind of way ever, whatsoever, ever, etc... and if you were to judge yourself as one of the chosen ones for Heaven, you may even be actually "worse" than some or many of them in some or a lot of ways maybe, etc... So, on what kind of basis does He choose or make some only for one kind of place and others for another kind of place, etc...? Because there seems to absolutely no rhyme or reason to it if you ask me...

There is an "us" and "them" and an "us and them" but you know there is no kind of better or worse difference between "us and them", yet there is still and "us and them" regardless, etc... and you also know that not only is there not ever anything better about the ones chosen to be the "us chosen over them", by Him, etc, but you also know that it is, or never ever was ever because of, or ever due to something of your own choosing or making ever, etc, but only because of only God and God only ever, and God's and God's only choosing or making ever, and not ever us or just your own only ever, etc...

Now this is what I've been wrestling with...? His choosing or not choosing or whatever, or His making some for one place or purpose only, while making others for another purpose or the other place when they die possibly only, etc, anyway, if there is no difference at all between them (or us) (or us and them, etc) and it is all only ever based on only the way He (already) made or (already) chose each one of us (to be) only ever, etc, anyway, it doesn't make any kind of sense at all to me at all ever, and I can't "figure it out" at all ever, etc...? And my heart hurts and hurts a lot for the others that may never be or ever have ever been meant for to ever go beyond or ever be anything more than anything beyond this, and/or after this, etc...

One way to know if one is chosen or is a chosen one for Heaven or not, is that His chosen ones are made by Him to seek or follow or pursue or chase after Him (God) and His things and the things of Him and/or surrounding Him with "all that they are" and "all that they have" (and/or possess or are) at some point in their life before they die here, etc... But, are they responsible for that or did they choose that themselves for an by themselves in any way at all whatsoever? No, they did not... But God already chose that for them or made them that way, or to destined or made them to be or become that way at some point in their life/lives before they die or leave here, etc, and did that from "before the foundations or the beginnings of the world and/or creation or this universe at some point before they die here", etc...

Anyway, the point I want to get to is, His choosing/electing/predestining or presdestinating from before the foundations or beginnings of the world or this creation or this universe makes "absolutely no sense at all to me", but I nevertheless know it just "is", etc, or is this or that way, etc...?

There's nothing different, nothing better or worse or any more or less special or whatever between us or between you and/or me and/or them, etc... and even if there ever were or was, or is, it's not something that we would or did or have ever chosen or did for ourselves ever, but was only something God already chose or did for us from a very, very, very very very, long long time ago, etc...

If you don't ever seek after or pursue or seek or ever go hard and very hard after God and/or the things (wisdom/knowledge) of God in your life ever, then I would have some serious doubts if you are or ever were ever truly made and/or were ever chosen by God to get to go beyond or be meant for anything more than just more of this ever, forever, etc, which is my definition of Hell if you ask me...

Why did He make and or create those who are never meant to anything more than or ever go beyond or exist for anything more than just more of this ever, etc...? He has told me that part of the reason for His making or having those others is that He made those others to cause His chosen ones to come or rise up and/or come up about and become known, etc, to or before certain "onlookers", or witnesses, etc... To kind of help create or make them (His true chosen ones, etc)... Qualify them for Heaven in the sight of all, etc...

I hurt very much so for those that maybe may not ever be, or that have not been ever been meant for going to or toward or for going beyond anything more than just this, or just more of just this, ever, and forever, etc... And I don't know at all on what basis God chooses or makes them (us) (all or any of us) any different at all from one another either, etc... which I am sometimes tempted to "take issue" with Him about sometimes, though I know now that I both am, and was a long long time ago, chosen, or am one of the ones already chosen by Him, etc, to go or be or exist for or beyond way very much more than just more of this ever, etc, and forever, etc, or for Heaven, etc...

How can one be happy about it, when you know that it just may be a or the or a few only, etc...? It wouldn't be right to complain about it, but it is also not right to feel very happy about it at all ever either, etc... And you sorely tempted to take or have some serious issue and/or issues with God about it sometimes as well, but that would be "complaining" now wouldn't it...

Anyway, I may add more to this later or more thoroughly expound on some of these thoughts a little bit later on, but, for now, "there it is", I guess, taken all in all for what it is, etc...

God Bless!

I believe most of your post could be summed up in one word: Blasphemy!
.
.
But seriously, the word I was really looking for was: Reincarnation. .....the constant living of lives in this realm.

Where you differ from the common belief, is that you feel there are some destine to reincarnate forever while others......the few.....live once and then go to heaven. I think it more common to believe that everyone reincarnates until they seek and find true life.

I find the common interpretation to be more agreeable.....therefore it would be only a few in a given time period.....yet everyone would reach the intended goal eventually.

I happen to believe we do have free will....the only thing that is certain is that we will eventually be drawn back to God......How long that takes is within our control.

The way I see it, we are all out wasting our inheritance on riotous living right now....... one by one we hit bottom and come to our senses and return to where we once were.

Therefore there is no need to feel sorry for anyone else.....for they, too, will be drawn even as we were. It is folly for you to believe you would have more love and compassion for my children than I have for them.....How much greater is the Love of God for His children than our love for the same?

So be of good encourage.....the Son has overcome the world, and He loses none that the father gives to him.