Heaven or Hell...?

[Tone]

I guess you could say that, when they die, they kind of "cease to exist", or be awake or conscious for a time, and then are only brought back when this creation has ended and a new one has begun, and are only brought back (to "life") (again), to only exist (again), much like exactly what they were and as they were and/or are, but "were" or were like "before", etc, in the previous creation prior to that (again) before (that), etc... Then, when they die in that one, (again), they (again) cease to exist or be awake or conscious for a time (again), and are only brought back (to "supposed" "life") (again) when then that creation has (once again) ended and a new one has begun (again) (etc) to only exist (again) much like exactly what and as they were (before) (again) in that/the previous creation (before) prior to that, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc... And that "cycle" basically repeats for them, over and over, "forever", etc, ("forever" as far as we know, etc)...

Yeah, this pretty much sums up my existence.


*It's also known as...aging.

**As far as I know...it ends...eventually...perhaps...

***Every death I die, I come back...and do good.

 

[Lazarus Short]

In His talk with Nicodemus, Jesus was given a cue to discourse on reincarnation, aka, "reincarceration," but He declined and went in another direction. For that reason, and others, I dismiss the concept.

 

[RaymondG]

In His talk with Nicodemus, Jesus was given a cue to discourse on reincarnation, aka, "reincarceration," but He declined and went in another direction. For that reason, and others, I dismiss the concept.

When He was given a cue to dismiss reincarnation when asked about the cause of a blindness of the man, he declined to dismiss it. For that reason, I would not dismiss it.

 

[Lazarus Short]

When He was given a cue to dismiss reincarnation when asked about the cause of a blindness of the man, he declined to dismiss it. For that reason, I would not dismiss it.

If you are referring to the ninth chapter of John, it is clear that there was a question of parentage but not of reincarnation.

 

[RaymondG]

If you are referring to the ninth chapter of John, it is clear that there was a question of parentage but not of reincarnation.

"9 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

The man was born blind, therefore for his own sin to have caused the blindness, it must have transpired before birth. If you only see parental concerns, it is because it is not given to you to see more than that, at this present time.

 

[Lazarus Short]

"9 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

The man was born blind, therefore for his own sin to have caused the blindness, it must have transpired before birth. If you only see parental concerns, it is because it is not given to you to see more than that, at this present time.

I get it - it was one of those "to the third and fourth generation" things...? I still don't see reincarnation, which IMHO is excluded by Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

 

[RaymondG]

I get it - it was one of those "to the third and fourth generation" things...?

No. you dont get it.

I still don't see reincarnation, which IMHO is excluded by Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

You cannot use the bible to negate the bible.....and truth has no exceptions.

How many times did Lazarus Die? the one raises after 3 days in the tomb... Once? twice? What about Enoch? Did he die once?.....twice?

 

[AjT]

This post hit me in a way I can't describe with words. I am prone to delusions so it's hard for me to even trust myself. It hurts my heart being shown certain "truths" about what may or may not exist. I get migraines just trying to process these ideas but I know I can be helped through Jesus alone. I have a great fear that I wish to get rid of but I can't do it alone. These ideas haunt me at certain times of a certain level of awareness, but I know I will be alright. I almost have to?

I really hope the best for you. God bless you my friend and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[AjT]

Im wondering if the "elect" as you say, are chosen either by those who do decide to follow God with everything they have in their spirit, or by those who "realize" what "hell" might really be, and that we as humans have sinned from the beginning of creation?

 

[Ilikecats]

Im wondering if the "elect" as you say, are chosen either by those who do decide to follow God with everything they have in their spirit, or by those who "realize" what "hell" might really be, and that we as humans have sinned from the beginning of creation?

Not everyone who is saved is saved by the same way. But God is the one who does the saving. Does it matter if you came into faith through fear or love? God has his own methods of bringing repentance to different people.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is what Hell is, (to me anyway)...

*sigh

 

[Cis.jd]

I guess you could say that, when they die, they kind of "cease to exist", or be awake or conscious for a time, and then are only brought back when this creation has ended and a new one has begun, and are only brought back (to "life") (again), to only exist (again), much like exactly what they were and as they were and/or are, but "were" or were like "before", etc, in the previous creation prior to that (again) before (that), etc... Then, when they die in that one, (again), they (again) cease to exist or be awake or conscious for a time (again), and are only brought back (to "supposed" "life") (again) when then that creation has (once again) ended and a new one has begun (again) (etc) to only exist (again) much like exactly what and as they were (before) (again) in that/the previous creation (before) prior to that, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc... And that "cycle" basically repeats for them, over and over, "forever", etc, ("forever" as far as we know, etc)...

I some what believe that Hell is the death penalty and I believe it is for people who really deserve it: IE, Hitler, Jeff Dahmer, Georgia Tann, Ted Bundy.. I think their sins are what the Bible talks about as "Sin against the Holy Spirit" because their acts have made their souls to be something that the Holy Spirit never created.

Whether this happens when they die (after being judged before God) or when the end comes, is something I don't want to debate on what is right.As a Catholic, I believe in Purgatory.. although the Purging is more like a "prison sentence" in where you've paid your sins.

 

[Cis.jd]

Im wondering if the "elect" as you say, are chosen either by those who do decide to follow God with everything they have in their spirit, or by those who "realize" what "hell" might really be, and that we as humans have sinned from the beginning of creation?

We shouldn't follow God because of fear. This is the biggest problem with many christian and it's seriousness is so evident in these forums, they've made Christianity's biggest selling point to be "or you will going to hell". This image of God that they exhibit is nothing different than North Koreans to Kim Jong.

God isn't a dictator, he did not create you and decided to point this "gun" at your head giving you an ultimatum to appease him. People who go to God because of fear of hell and use this fear in their preaching are not true christians on the inside.

 

[Ilikecats]

We shouldn't follow God because of fear. This is the biggest problem with many christian and it's seriousness is so evident in these forums, they've made Christianity's biggest selling point to be "or you will going to hell". This image of God that they exhibit is nothing different than North Koreans to Kim Jong.

God isn't a dictator, he did not create you and decided to point this "gun" at your head giving you an ultimatum to appease him. People who go to God because of fear of hell and use this fear in their preaching are not true christians on the inside.

I wouldn’t be so quick to say that. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. There is nothing that suggests fearing hell is not something a Christian should do. Are you afraid of something harming you? There are healthy fears and there are unhealthy fears. Could one take the fear of Hell unhealthily and make it superior to God? Of course. The focus of a Christian should be centered around Jesus and not hell but there is nothing wrong with the fear itself.

 

[Blade]

Thanks for posting. Forgive me but theres allot of speculation here. The simple answer is.. ask Him. He will tell you..and will back it up with His word. The world says few will be saved. So many are blind.. and as Christ said if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains.

And remember we've never seen heaven or God or Christ or all the wonders in heaven. Nor seen our Father in all His glory and power. Satan and all those fallen angels did. Thats why they can not repent. Now the Father knows all man has seen is sin evil. Its far easier to be saved than lost.

 

[magiani]

I know this feeling. It's overwhelming, isn't it? Still if you admit that you can't be sure who will be saved and who won't be, you can deal better with your feelings maybe. There is always hope for everyone.

 

[Cis.jd]

I wouldn’t be so quick to say that. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. There is nothing that suggests fearing hell is not something a Christian should do. Are you afraid of something harming you? There are healthy fears and there are unhealthy fears. Could one take the fear of Hell unhealthily and make it superior to God? Of course. The focus of a Christian should be centered around Jesus and not hell but there is nothing wrong with the fear itself.

No it's not. You fear based on respect, just like with a parent or a teacher. It is not mutual to follow someone when you are doing it because you are afraid that they will hurt or kill you if you don't. These believes are not produced by the Spirit because every single person here who attested these beliefs have shown that they couldn't even tell right from wrong. Morality is pointless.

If this is the reality that so many "christians" here have stated, then it's like life itself is a curse because we were just created (with out asking) and given this dark ultimatum the moment of conception.

 

[Neogaia777]

To those who think I am talking about "reincarnation", I am not...

Reincarnation is the belief that you have other lives here or are reborn as or with other different lives and existences here in this creation, and that, that, has been going on since the beginning of this creation, that is not what I am saying or talking about at all...

I am saying that you only have only one life in this creation, and that when you or some of us die, we sleep or are not ever really conscious again, until this entire creation ends and a new one is made and/or begins again, etc, and that you, or some of us, are only brought back to live (and die) again, in that new creation to live a life, not very different and very much the same to almost the exact kind of life that we had in the previous creation prior to that or the previous creation, etc, then we die and "sleep", I guess you could say, (again) until that creation end and another one begins (again) and then we are brought back (again) to live very much the same kind of life we had (again) in the previous creation before it/that (again) and that this cycle repeats "forever" for those ones basically, etc... But for those of us getting to to go to Heaven or beyond this it is much, much different, we only die once, and do not sleep (in death) anymore after that ever again ever, and do not have to go through this hellish cycle or maybe being say "recycled" that many others have to or get to go through, again, and again, and again, and again, etc...

It's not at all like the theory of reincarnation... Reincarnation is about having multiple different lives and existences here, while what I am talking about is having very much the same kind of lives and/or existences over and over again, in other completely different and separate and different new and newer creations, and only one per creation, "here", I guess you could say, etc...

Not that you come back are are reborn over and over in this creation here, as some of totally different other person, or animal or something, here continually, that is experiencing or going through different things, etc, but the "same kind of person" I guess you could say, experiencing or going through very much the same kind of things, in each creation, and only once in each creation, in very much the same kinds of realities or existences that you existed as or for or in, in prior creations prior to here or this one, continually, etc, and only once per creation here, etc, but that goes on continually and forever, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Cis.jd]

Reincarnation is the belief that you have other lives here or are reborn as or with other different lives and existences here in this creation, and that, that, has been going on since the beginning of this creation, that is not what I am saying or talking about at all...

Your view is pieces of a christian assumption that includes reincarnation. I've read books (which are likely heretical)in where some person assumes that "hell" is the person reincarnating into an ant, random vermin or insect, or even a poor kid poverty, who will die over and over again and then return to a human person at the end of days.. although some have it as a version of purgatory.

Your view is interesting though, and I like how you normally theorize about certain theological things.

 

[Neogaia777]

Your view is pieces of a christian assumption that includes reincarnation. I've read books (which are likely heretical)in where some person assumes that "hell" is the person reincarnating into an ant, random vermin or insect, or even a poor kid poverty, who will die over and over again and then return to a human person at the end of days.. although some have it as a version of purgatory.

Your view is interesting though, and I like how you normally theorize about certain theological things.

I'm not talking about that kind of reincarnation at all though...?

We only come back in a "another different creation" to live "very much the same kind of life again", as pretty much "still the exact same kind of person again", etc, and "over and over again", yes, but only as "pretty much that same person or being", and only "once per creation", etc...

It is totally different from all the other views that many other people and religions have on, and/or call "reincarnation", etc, totally different, etc...

It is, in a word, "Hell", I guess you could say, or to me anyway, something from the "twilight zone", so to speak, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!