Heaven and Earth

Tellyontellyon

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2020
732
234
52
Wales
✟112,899.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
From Matthew, quoting Jesus:
"
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

My question is only this:
The verses seem to say that the law will still be the law until "heaven and earth pass" and "till all be fulfilled"

'all be fulfilled' can be construed to mean Jesus dying on the cross... But... 'heaven and earth' certainly hasn't passed... so I'm confused.

Does all of Mosaic law still stand or not?
 

Sorn

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,354
315
60
Perth
✟178,763.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Mosaic law does not stand - for the moment.
The Mosaic law and God dealing with the Jews has been suspended for the moment during the current age, the Church age or the age of Grace also known as the dispensation of grace or the time of the gentiles. We are in a time when God is dispensing His grace via our Lord Jesus Christ & His atoning death on the cross.
This age will end at the rapture When God takes His church out of the world. After this God will again turn His attention back to the Jews to judge them & to fulfill all the promises He made to them. He will do this by reactivating the Law of Moses and will deal & interact with the Jews & the world under that law & covenant.
At the end of the tribulation period Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah & Jewish King will return to Earth and establish His 1000 yr kingdom - a Jewish kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,810
5,658
Utah
✟722,379.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
From Matthew, quoting Jesus:
"
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

My question is only this:
The verses seem to say that the law will still be the law until "heaven and earth pass" and "till all be fulfilled"

'all be fulfilled' can be construed to mean Jesus dying on the cross... But... 'heaven and earth' certainly hasn't passed... so I'm confused.

Does all of Mosaic law still stand or not?

There are two parts to the law ... the Royal Law (10 commandments) and the Mosaic law (ceremonial laws associated with the earthly sanctuary - of which is no longer needed)

It is the Royal Law (the 10) that are eternal/everlasting and will never pass away.

Jesus became our High Priest and is in heaven performing His priestly duties in heaven. God sees the beginning to the end .... when Jesus died on the cross the final outcome was determined/finished (satan defeated) ... but the entire salvation plan has not yet been fully executed ... that will happen when Jesus returns. When Jesus returns all judgement has taken place .... until then the door to salvation is open.

So the plan of salvation is finished ... but we won't fully experience it until Jesus returns.
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,750
4,746
59
Mississippi
✟252,053.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Do you have the verses please?

The sermon on the mount in Matthew

The law will be governed so strict that even mans thoughts are judged. But satan will be locked away so Jesus will expect all most perfect adherence to the law.

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Tellyontellyon

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2020
732
234
52
Wales
✟112,899.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Buddhist
Marital Status
Married
The sermon on the mount in Matthew

The law will be governed so strict that even mans thoughts are judged. But satan will be locked away so Jesus will expect all most perfect adherence to the law.

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
I'm not seeing the 1000 year reign reference, or the thing about the Mosaic law being suspended and then coming back. What are the verses that say that please.
 
Upvote 0

Vanellus

Newbie
Sep 15, 2014
1,395
508
✟116,215.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
One ought to consider the whole of the Bible rather than isolated verses e.g. from Hebrews 10

In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). 9Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet, 14because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.
The law of Moses still stands but there is now no need for animal sacrifices for sins since this requirement has been fulfilled by Jesus' once for all sacrifice.
 
Upvote 0

Hawkins

Member
Site Supporter
Apr 27, 2005
2,570
394
Canada
✟238,750.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
From Matthew, quoting Jesus:
"
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

My question is only this:
The verses seem to say that the law will still be the law until "heaven and earth pass" and "till all be fulfilled"

'all be fulfilled' can be construed to mean Jesus dying on the cross... But... 'heaven and earth' certainly hasn't passed... so I'm confused.

Does all of Mosaic law still stand or not?

Law, there are multi-fold meanings of it, will not forfeit till all be fulfilled. Law must be followed with a Judgment of Law, which happens on the so-called Judgment Day. Law is considered as fulfilled after the Judgment of Law. Law on the other hand, is like a promise from God saying that if you pass the Judgment God wll bear with you in eternity no matter what. Such a promise will also become effective after the Judgment.

Originally Law is set up as an open standard aiming for the assessment of obedience of all entities including both humans and angels. It's said that 2/3 angels will pass the Judgment of Law to enter Heaven. Humans on the other hand would inevitably fail the same assessment applicable to the angles. This due to the effort of the 1/3 fallen angels who are much more capable and intelligent than humans, they are described as the "crafty snake" in Eden represented by Satan. Under the bad influence of these bad angels, then no one human can be righteous, not even one in terms of the heavenly Law.

Law on the other hand demands that God must make a self-sacrifice in order for humans not to be judged by such a set of Law under which 2/3 angels are saved. Needless to say Jesus, God the Son is the one to fulfill the demand of the Law for humans to be able to dodge the Judgment of Law. The self-sacrifice of Jesus Christ allows the series of Covenants to be granted to the different scopes of humans at different periods of humanity. Humans are now judged by Covenant instead of Law. Mosaic Law is just another set of Law embedded inside the Mosaic Covenant covering the scope of Jews born after Moses.

Mosaic Law is made use by God on His own chosen people to demonstrate what God's Law could mean, such that humans can grasp the meaning of what God's Grace could mean. It is used as a demonstration because the heavenly Law, which is now applicable to the angels, is not demonstratable to humans on earth. If Mosaic Law is removed, then there won't be any qualified Jews today. Mosaic however will never go away until the coming of the Final Judgment of humans including the Jews. For that matter, today's Jews can still choose to observe the Mosaic Law to be a qualified Jews. They are qualified as Jews by means of observing the Mosaic Law, it by no means says that they can be saved through a Judgment using Mosaic Law as the covenantal standard. They will inevitably fail when assessed using Mosaic Law as the judgment standard. They can however be saved by believing in Jesus while being a Jew at the same time.

Believing in Jesus Christ to be saved is what the New Covenant is about. The New Covenant is with a scope covering both the gentiles and the Jews. Through the name of Jesus God may still have a plan for the loyal Jews though, which is prophesied but not yet fully revealed though. The New Covenant in place now is mainly for the assessment of Faith as we shall fail the assessment of our obedience (it by no means says that we don't need to be obedient though).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,750
4,746
59
Mississippi
✟252,053.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
I'm not seeing the 1000 year reign reference, or the thing about the Mosaic law being suspended and then coming back. What are the verses that say that please.

I do not have a verse that states plainly what you are asking. Mosaic law being suspended and then coming back

But Jesus is going to rule His earthly Kingdom through the nation of Israel and as stated in the sermon on the mount. he Jesus will rule with His Law. This article will help explain this without me having type a long reply.

https://faithalone.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/3_Hodges-LAW-AND-GRACE.pdf
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
10,750
4,746
59
Mississippi
✟252,053.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Here are verses from Micah that address the rule of Jesus during the 1000 millennium.

NKJV

The Lord’s Reign in Zion

Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And peoples shall flow to it.
Many nations shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
He shall judge between many peoples,
And rebuke strong nations afar off;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.



Niv

In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and peoples will stream to it.

Many nations will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.
 
Upvote 0