Healing Crystals

[Carl Emerson]

Oh, am I in danger of insulting Old Nick? Dang!

I'll take my chances. Greater is He that is in me than he who is in the world.

Was Jude wrong then ???

 

[Jipsah]

I wouldn't waste all that much time with him Carl.

I'm sure that's right.

Some people are on the front lines and some are hiding in their buildings. Some people will have an experienced based Christianity and some will try to live things out in their mind. Some people such as yourself and I will know about this stuff, and some people will be absolutely clueless throughout most of their lives.

Almost like a different religion, innit?

The people who are actual doers of the word will rub shoulders with him, the ones who are an actual a threat to him down here, not the ones hiding in their buildings.

There ya go! Dang the hainted crystals, fuul speed ahead! Y'all gonna take on Satan mano-a-mano, and no demon hiding in some rocks or infesting some board game is gonna deter you! Lookout Nick, the A-Team is on your case!

Juyst be sure you don't say anything too insulting about him, though, right?

 

[Jipsah]

Was Jude wrong then ???

Maybe he didn't read 1 John 4
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[The Liturgist]

In my opinion both @Carl Emerson and @Jipsah have a pious and correct view of the demonic and you are both predominantly correct because of your shared Anglican heritage. In high church Anglicanism, priests will exorcise the water used in baptism, and salt, and bless both, and make a sign of the cross using the blessed salt in the water before performing the baptism, and the Orthodox and other ancient churches also do this, and this to me does suggest @Carl Emerson is correct in that objects can be desecrated, and be potentially occult, particularly idols and other things fashioned with occult purposes, not because of any intrinsic properties to the objects I think but rather because of the interface between the human perception of the object and the whisphering suggestions demons make to bolster that perception of spiritual power, which Christians instinctively react to negatively, if they notice it at all. Insofar as this effect depends on perception @Jipsah is correct. Exorcising the objects removes any demons from them, and it also has a profound psychological impact so even if other demons are in the area, since the object is now perceived to be safe.

It is my belief that clergy should perform the exorcism and blessing of objects wherever possible, both because of our theological training and discernment, and also because from the vital perceptual aspect many people will be more convinced if we do it.

So in essence @Jipsah and @Carl Emerson my belief is you are both correct, although you don’t realize it, due to the shared tradition of the Book of Common Prayer which differentiates the two of you from non-liturgical Christians like our friend @ARBITER01 , whose position on this issue I reject.

Now I personally would not accept a healing crystal as a gift and if one were given to me I would break it up into pieces and form them into a cross, if possible, or combine it with other crystals to make a cross, because as you both know, demons cannot tolerate the sign of the cross, so by doing that any possible demonic influence would be obviated. That said, I am not afraid of healing crystals; rather i regard their use as a form of spiritual delusion, or prelest, but I don’t wish to surround myself with them or other occult objects because there is a Patristic witness within Orthodoxy that says that is a bad idea. For that matter I don’t visit occult bookstores, since they are filled with books I don’t want and lack any books that I do want. For that matter I usually avoid Christian bookstores except for those at Orthodox, Anglican and Catholic and other liturgical churches because usually they don’t have anything of interest in me either. For me the litmus test of a Christian bookstore is: does it carry any kind of liturgical books, such as editions of the Book of Common Prayer, or missals, or Orthodox liturgical books like the Triodion, the Octoechos and the Menaion, and also various prayer books that follow the liturgy, and does it carry any editions of the Bible with the “deuterocanonical” books which we regard as protocanonical, sacred, and important in the Orthodox Church, books like Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Tobit, 2 Maccabees and so on? And also does it have icons? If not, count me out. I have no interest in buying a CD of Hillsong or a copy of the writings of someone like Hal Lindsay.

 

[The Liturgist]

By the way, both Jude and 1 John are correct. Any valid exegesis of the NT must reconcile apparent contradictions. But here there is none, in my view.

This is why I consider the two of you to both be substantially correct on this issue. But fierce debate over such things does seem to be a popular Anglican pastime, which I myself have indulged in both when I was Episcopalian and since that time when in fellowship with my Anglican friends.

 

[ARBITER01]

So in essence @Jipsah and @Carl Emerson my belief is you are both correct, although you don’t realize it, due to the shared tradition of the Book of Common Prayer which differentiates the two of you from non-liturgical Christians like our friend @ARBITER01 , whose position on this issue I reject.

Ahhhh,.... my traditionalist friend, we meet again it seems.

Lol, my position is the same as Carl's. I was agreeing with Carl on his posts,..... but you didn't see that did you??

Look,.... this subject can be controversial, I understand that and agree, but it isn't without merit. Prayer is a universal thing, anyone can do it, the problem is,..... some people learn they can use corrupt forms of prayer as a weapon against another,... and that is the very thing that is being utilized in the ritual part of this that Carl was pointing out.

Things like the subject matter of the OP is a very common occurrence in the occult side of things, very common, so for people watching in the thread, don't write something off as just superstition if you have no real experience in it. Book knowledge is not enough.

 

[Lost Witness]

Book knowledge is not enough

Agreed

 

[The Liturgist]

Book knowledge is not enough.

And that is why I recommend having professional clergy who have been trained on how to perform exorcisms and have experience performing them, actually do them.

 

[ARBITER01]

And that is why I recommend having professional clergy who have been trained on how to perform exorcisms and have experience performing them, actually do them.

I understand that you would recommend someone "from the church that was trained,"......but let me buy you a clue here,...... ready? GOD trains people Himself.

I know that might seem foreign sounding and all to you, but it is true nonetheless, GOD trains people all the time in what they are suppose to do for Him, and it won't be just people inside your particular building.

And you want to know something else? He trains you by experience not just book knowledge. Everything He shows you will be completely in alignment with what He says in His word. Scripture will come alive in the process to you.

Do you think I was completely trained on how to help that friend of mine out of her bad occult situation I mentioned about in this thread? Absolutely not. But I was a strict follower of the leading of The Holy Spirit. And you want to know something else? I knew her for 5 years before she ever let me know anything about her past and current situation. It took me all of this year working to get her free from all the traps these people had set for her, but it was a process of learning by experience. The Lord was right there at each step of the way, and it was very frustrating and worrisome for me trying to get my friend free from this, but you will never learn something like this any other way. Period. A person has to led by The Holy Spirit and His revelation in such things like this, just like Paul was, just like Jesus was.

You want to know something really interesting also? I had dreams about all these bad situations that she was going to get herself into 30 years prior to this. I didn't even know who she was back then, but I asked The Lord to not let those really harmful things happen to this girl I seen in my dreams, and He used me to stop it from happening. There was no one else around that He was going to use to fix this situation, other than me. I was the one who was brought into contact with her, and I was the only Christian available that GOD was going to use to fix it. There was no people trained up in a building nearby that was going to be available to help her out of this bad situation, none.

 

[Jipsah]

I understand that you would recommend someone "from the church that was trained,"......but let me buy you a clue here,...... ready? GOD trains people Himself.

I have no doubt that he has, and will, if it's His good pleasure to do so. The problem is that's really easy to say, but how can you have any assurance that the person who says he or she has been trained by God really has? During my time amongst the Pentecostalists, I heard a great many people deliver "a word from the Lord" that I had what I considered very good reason to believe was no such thing. and some that I knew to be false. Making a claim like that is easy, but accepting a claim like that on face value is not necessarily wise.

In my engineering days. when I was hiring someone for a staff position, the first thing I asked for was where they were educated, and whether they were licensed as Professional Engineers. I had occasion to hire people who weren't PEs from time to time, if I already knew them and the quality of their work. But they weren't licensed, and I didn't know them "by their works", if you will, I gave them the old "we'll keep your resume on file" brush off and looked for someone else.

These days, I'm like that with my doctors. My PCP is my daughter, but my cardiologist is a product of Harvard Medical School, and she was a Cardiac Fellow at MassGen. Yeah, Big Buildings, yeah, but Big Buildings that produce really good cardiologists.

Can, and more importantly does, God directly train doctors and engineers? If He wants to, you betcha. Does He? Probably so when He sees fit. Should I have accepted an engineer or cardiologist who said "God trained me, so I don't need no steenkin' Big University? Maybe, but in fact I wouldn't have. Again, maybe I missed out on some prime candidates. But God doesn't issue diplomas or certifications. There's no way to determine whether the person who claims to be God-trained is the greatest opportunity ever, or just someone who hears voices.

So who would I go to if I needed an exorcist? You already know. I'd go for the person with the education and training. Same as I would for an engineer or a doctor. I'm not interested in trying my luck and finding out I'd chosen someone who didn't really know anything.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have no doubt that he has, and will, if it's His good pleasure to do so. The problem is that's really easy to say, but how can you have any assurance that the person who says he or she has been trained by God really has?

By this,....

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you the one believing in Me, the works which I do, that-one shall do also, and greater than these he will do, because I am going unto My Father.

It's the body of Christ, not the building of Christ. We are to follow Him, not anyone else. We are to be witnesses of Him. People are to see Jesus through us and recognize the works that He did. The healings, the words of wisdom, the words of knowledge, etc. We are to be born again like He said, we are to be water immersed, we are to be filled with The Spirit, and we are also to be anointed with the power of The Holy Spirit resting upon us like promised.

Doctors need not apply.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I have no doubt that he has, and will, if it's His good pleasure to do so. The problem is that's really easy to say, but how can you have any assurance that the person who says he or she has been trained by God really has? During my time amongst the Pentecostalists, I heard a great many people deliver "a word from the Lord" that I had what I considered very good reason to believe was no such thing. and some that I knew to be false. Making a claim like that is easy, but accepting a claim like that on face value is not necessarily wise.

In my engineering days. when I was hiring someone for a staff position, the first thing I asked for was where they were educated, and whether they were licensed as Professional Engineers. I had occasion to hire people who weren't PEs from time to time, if I already knew them and the quality of their work. But they weren't licensed, and I didn't know them "by their works", if you will, I gave them the old "we'll keep your resume on file" brush off and looked for someone else.

These days, I'm like that with my doctors. My PCP is my daughter, but my cardiologist is a product of Harvard Medical School, and she was a Cardiac Fellow at MassGen. Yeah, Big Buildings, yeah, but Big Buildings that produce really good cardiologists.

Can, and more importantly does, God directly train doctors and engineers? If He wants to, you betcha. Does He? Probably so when He sees fit. Should I have accepted an engineer or cardiologist who said "God trained me, so I don't need no steenkin' Big University? Maybe, but in fact I wouldn't have. Again, maybe I missed out on some prime candidates. But God doesn't issue diplomas or certifications. There's no way to determine whether the person who claims to be God-trained is the greatest opportunity ever, or just someone who hears voices.

So who would I go to if I needed an exorcist? You already know. I'd go for the person with the education and training. Same as I would for an engineer or a doctor. I'm not interested in trying my luck and finding out I'd chosen someone who didn't really know anything.

Luke 9

49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

 

[Jipsah]

50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Acts 19
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

 

[Jipsah]

By this,....

Joh 14:12 Truly, truly, I say to you the one believing in Me, the works which I do, that-one shall do also, and greater than these he will do, because I am going unto My Father.

That gives us no reason to assume that everyone who claims to be "trained by God" actually has been, does it?

It's the body of Christ, not the building of Christ.

Ooookay... Stay out of buildings, then, right?

We are to follow Him, not anyone else.

OK, but Brother Buford says he's following Jesus, so if we follow Bro Buford, we'll be folowing Jesus too, right?

We are to be witnesses of Him. People are to see Jesus through us and recognize the works that He did. The healings, the words of wisdom, the words of knowledge, etc. We are to be born again like He said, we are to be water immersed, we are to be filled with The Spirit, and we are also to be anointed with the power of The Holy Spirit resting upon us like promised.

OK.

Doctors need not apply.

Why? Are doctors particularly bad folks? My daughter will be so disappointed to hear that.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

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