Headcoverings

[Colabomb]

I have never been really worried about this topit before....

But I am obsessive compulsive, and once I get a question in my head I agonize until I get a satisfactory answer.

Are Headcoverings required for women in the Church?

1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 1 I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. 3 2 3 But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ. 4 4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. 5 But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. 7 5 A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; 10 for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority 6 on her head, because of the angels. 11 7 Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. 12 For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God. 13 8 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him, 15 whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given (her) for a covering? 16 But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.

 

[Epiphoskei]

If head coverings for women are required, the flip side is that men must keep their heads uncovered. There are both two parts of one command.
Now, many say this is cultural. Others retort that this is a way to weasel out of the biblical commands. The problem is, however, that in the old testament, men did have head coverings when they prayed. It was commanded by God. Ezekiel was expressly told to keep his turban on once while he was prophesying. And in his vision of the temple at the end of the book, he saw the priests were all wearing head coverings. So how can this be anything other than cultural? In the culture of the Jews, God expected the exact opposite.

 

[Colabomb]

Thanks for responding brother, can you give me some references please?

 

[Epiphoskei]

The part where Ezekiel doesn't remove his turban and then prophecies to the jews in captivity is Ezekiel 24:15 through the end of the chapter, and in Ezekiel 44:18, God says of the priests ministering in the temple, "Linen turbans shall be on their heads"

 

[Colabomb]

That does make a lot of sense.

But why did he appeal to Nature?

 

[Epiphoskei]

I'm not really sure what he's getting at with that appeal, but I suspect since he says after that, "if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God," that he' not making a command by it.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That does make a lot of sense.

But why did he appeal to Nature?

I cant see how he could teach his point from scripture honestly. You ask an intellent question

Scripture shows Samson a Nazarite had LONG hair. Paul asks, "doesnt NATURE (NOT scripture) itself teach its a shame for a man to have long hair? 1Cr 11:19 Same with a woman in regards to being shaved IF shes not covered.

I cant see how scripture could teach that. Scripture shows when Samsons long hair (was shaven) the Lord LEFT HIM. So It actually ~appears~ to the contrary, like it was more of ashame when it was shaved (given God TOOK OFF with a hair cut) See what I mean?

No razor was to come to his head (and hadnt) from the time of his mothers womb, can you imagine how long it was?:o

I see these things as similitudes after spiritual truths not carnal ones (honestly). In seeing them this way its understandable why Paul didnt use them that way.

The vow of a Nazarite which speaks to the hair (in various places in relation to it) was not limited just to men. Both a man and a woman could take the vow of a Nazarite Numbers 6:2-5 Thats sorta irrelevant given Paul was not using scripture to teach when he spake about the hair (of either) but as Nature teaches. To me, it just shows why he didnt use scripture, but why had it become an issue needing to appeal outside of it rather?

He does say "judge in yourselves" and some today do judge in themselves but they arent judging it and coming to the same thoughts on the matter. It appears (to some) to leave a grey area. I guess thats where others take liberality in their judgment coming to regard it as a cultural thing. We know scripture doesnt teach it, but nature supposedly does and "judging in oneself" is appealed to.

Truthfully, I havent a clue. Can nature be a part of what is considered cultural? Maybe someone can further clarify that for me because I dont honestly know.

I would wear a baseball cap for mine covering (if I must) because thats a killer choice for a covering aint it?

Seriously though...whats not clear (to me) is what does he mean BECAUSE OF the angels in relation to the covering? Because NOW what needs to be appealed to in nature to teach has a BECAUSE and another element pulled into it. Personally I find this rather difficult to understand. Whats a covering on my head have to do with an angel?

This question comes up because I think we all get these unsatisfactory answers and that IRK that wont go away until it gets answered (to our own satisfaction).

On another note...ever throw a towel on ~your head~?

I have and HE yells at me whats yours do? You have a head?

Kidding

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Tara91]

I've wrestled with this issue, too. (Like you, I get something into my head and can't rest until I've gotten a satisfactory answer.)

I think this passage is talking about public worship services. What I struggled with was this---later on in 1 Corinthians, woman are commanded to remain silent in worship services. Why would Paul say "Women, you can preach and pray if you wear a headcovering" and then later on say, "Just kidding, you can't do it at all." It just doesn't make sense.

[bible]1 Corinthians 14:34[/bible]

I think the headcovering spoken of in 1 Corinthians 11 is symbolic. I'm pretty sure the Greek in 1 Cor. 11:5

[bible]1 Corinthians 11:5[/bible]

can also be translated: "And every woman who prays or prophesies, uncovering her head, dishonors her head---it is just as though her head were shaved."

So, basically, the very act of preaching or praying in public uncovers a woman's head---she is now taking over the man's role.

There is a series of really good sermons on this topic here. (The series is called "Nature, Headship, and Silence) http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...rSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Chris^Strevel

Let us know what you find out in your studies!

Tara

 

[shernren]

I'd think about the state that the Corinthian church was in. If your church today was like the Corinthian church ... imagine if in your church:

1. There was a man in the congregation sleeping with his stepmother, and others openly visiting prostitutes. (ch 5, 6)
2. People started forming factions - some following the pastor, others the worship and music team, others the theologians, and the pious hypocrites saying "we follow Christ" and yet causing as much disunity as the rest; imagine them all declaring each other enemies. (ch 3)
3. People sued each other to court. (ch 6)
4. You couldn't do anything continuously for more than 5 minutes in a row because someone would interrupt with some strange tongue - and the weirder the tongue, the more congratulations the show-off would receive during fellowship time after service. (ch 12-14)
5. When they got together for "Christian meals", some members got drunk and others hoarded food while yet others went hungry. (ch 11)

Now imagine if you were the bishop of the region (or whatever head position your church administration has) and heard about all the wayward goings-on. Wouldn't you immediately have to lay a smack-down on the church? Your response would certainly be full of righteous wrath and stern warnings ... along with stringent guidelines to get back on track.

I'm certainly using my imagination a lot here but all the essential ingredients are there in the book. And I believe that when Paul told women to be silent, he said it with view of that specific situation in which there was utter chaos in the church. I personally believe that it would have been a way of re-unifying the church. Before this, services were unorderly and everyone was speaking up and probably arguing with each other; what better way to quench it than to forbid an entire half of the church from talking at all?

We must keep all of Paul's male-female-relation teachings in balance. When the wife is told to learn at home from the husband, this is not so much a bondage of the wife, as a burden on the husband! While he doesn't say anything about it here, he tells husbands in Eph 5 that husbands are to give their lives for their wives just as Christ died to edify and save the church - and if that includes teaching their wives to obey God, that's a mighty high calling! Imagine giving so much and studying so deeply to edify your wife that you feel like you're giving your life for her - that's the unspoken other half of the command of Paul here, that women should learn from their husbands.

That's my take on it. Head-veils are a specific application (to a strife-torn church) of a general principle (order in service, and asymmetric though equal roles in marriage).

 

[Tara91]

When the wife is told to learn at home from the husband, this is not so much a bondage of the wife, as a burden on the husband!

I'm not so sure that the commandment for women to remain silent was only applicable in the Corinthian church---but maybe that's not what you're saying---but I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Do you mind if I tuck it away for later use?

 

[aqua6dementia]

I know quite a few Christians who choose to cover their heads, just in case. But for the majority of them, it's no biggie - it doesn't mean a big veil or giant floppy hat - most of them just wear a headscarf, and have a whole bunch of different ones - they've turned it into a fashion statement, and so don't see any reason why they shouldn't. It's just not even an issue to them.