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God gives grace to all as he makes the sun shine and the rain fall and crops grow for all. Yet some resent God for all that. Isn't what the Lord said in John chapter three explanation enough for you?
Ah. So there's something other than grace which dictates why some believe.
So those who are saved are those who receive grade AND don't resent God for sun and rain and crops.
I had answered what I saw for a question. But if a question was being asked and answer to it is desired that isn't provided, I don't mind being asked that, to answer. My position is that Yahweh God desired with the eternal plan for how it could be that provision for all to be saved would be available. God is just and gives just consequence for all of sin. God is also gracious, so that any might see enough to respond to God on God's terms, those that respond for that at all God gives more to know, and this works best with believers, such as any of us, led to share more fully God's revelation with the gospel of salvation from God through Christ. But there are many who will not come to responding to God that way, for their own interest in what they would pursue.
Hammster said:So on Monday, Bob doesn't believe the gospel. On Tuesday, he believes. That is because of God's graciousness?
John chapter 3 also talks about Rebirth via the Spirit and those who do not believe already being condemned. Can a person be rewarded this Rebirth by mustering up enough faith and doing good works? This convo can boil down to asking the following: Does faith come from God, or is it self-manifested?
John chapter three also tells why people do not believe - it's because they do wicked things and do not want to come into the light because what they do is wicked.Grace is given to all yet not all receive the benefits because some want wickedness rather than godliness.John 3:17-21 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.
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And why is that?
This is true for ANYONE on God's green Earth who seeks to enter in at the Strait Gate. Each must answer these questions for their own self.He might not need to, but we need not only to ask the question, but attempt to find an answer as well, so that we may understand the nature of man. Check out Luke 6:45 and 1 Peter 2:8. Let me know what you think
He might not need to, but we need not only to ask the question, but attempt to find an answer as well, so that we may understand the nature of man. Check out Luke 6:45 and 1 Peter 2:8. Let me know what you think
(Luke 6:43-45) 43 For no good tree produces rotten fruit, and no rotten tree produces good fruit. 44 For each tree is known by its own fruit. For example, people do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they cut grapes off a bramble bush. 45 A good man brings good out of the good treasure of his heart, but a wicked man brings what is wicked out of his wicked treasure; for out of the hearts abundance his mouth speaks.
Luke 2:8 does not tell us why the good have good treasures in their heart nor why the wicked have wicked treasure in their heart it only tells us that they do and that is very much the same as John chapter three and its message about the wicked.
(1 Peter 2:7-10) 7 It is to you, therefore, that he is precious, because you are believers; but to those not believing, the stone that the builders rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone 8 and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence. They are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word. To this very end they were appointed. 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 For you were once not a people, but now you are Gods people; once you had not been shown mercy, but now you have received mercy.
1 Peter 2:8 does not tell us why the wicked are wicked or why the reject the message of the gospel but it does tell us that those who reject Christ and the gospel message receive the appointed consequence of their unbelief while verses nine and tell tell us that the good receive a royal priesthood and become a holy nation that is God's special possession. Yet again no reason is given for the wickedness of the wicked.
What the passages tell us is that there are good trees and bad trees and they produce fruit accordingly. If a bad tree cannot produce food fruit, what could they possibly do affect their salvation?
Trees are an analogy. I do not think that the passage is teaching that people are irrevocably set either to be wicked or to be good. If the passage were teaching that then repentance would mean what? That a bad man can change? And falling into wickedness would mean what? That a good man can change? Well, that is precisely what the prophets in the old covenant taught.
(Ezekiel 18:19-24) 19 But you will say: Why does the son not bear guilt because of his fathers error? Since the son has done what is just and righteous, has kept all my statutes and has observed them, he will surely live. 20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will bear no guilt because of the error of his father, and a father will bear no guilt because of the error of his son. The righteousness of the righteous one will be accounted to him alone, and the wickedness of the wicked one will be accounted to him alone. 21 Now if someone wicked turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps my statutes and does what is just and righteous, he will surely live. He will not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed will be held against him. He will live for doing what is righteous. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of a wicked person? declares the Lord GOD. Do I not prefer that he turn away from his ways and live? 24 But when someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, doing all the detestable things the wicked do, will he live? None of the righteous acts that he did will be remembered. For his unfaithfulness and the sin he has committed, he will die.
I didn't say anything about irrevocable. I said that trees bear fruit according to their natures. And they they weren't teaching that bad men could change. They were commanding them to change. However, it's clear that they could not make for themselves a clean heart. If they could, we wouldn't have chapter 36.
So, if a bad tree could produce good fruit (repentance, for instance), then Jesus was wrong when he said a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.
If a bad man can do good (something for God's glory), then Jesus had it all wrong. That doesn't mean that doesn't have the right to command it. But He knows that apart from Him, no good will come. That's why He is the one who gives a new heart of flesh.
Clearly a bad man can repent according to holy scripture. I know that I repented. I presume that you have too. So when you say "If a bad man can do good (something for God's glory), then Jesus had it all wrong" I can't help but think you're leaving something out of your reckoning.
Clearly a bad man can repent according to holy scripture. I know that I repented. I presume that you have too. So when you say "If a bad man can do good (something for God's glory), then Jesus had it all wrong" I can't help but think you're leaving something out of your reckoning.
I repented because I was born again. God took my heart of stone and replaced it with a heart of flesh. You see, it's all of God. The flesh produces nothing good. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
I suspect we're talking at cross purposes. Perhaps you can explain what you mean. For example, are Christians "good men"? Are atheist "bad men"? And can either change?
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