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Hades -- we learn in this account more about Hades, which we can see is a place of suffering, torment, of paying for one's sins -- as the rich man in this account is paying for ignoring Lazarus begging in need.
Yes, but he is also having a conversation about his problems.
If he was on a flaming grill, conversation would not be as civil.
I have a gnat tormenting me at this very moment.
The term is so broad, we can only hope to get some idea of what it means when put with other Scripture on Hell.
My whole point is before the OP says God is bad for being unfair with this terrible Hell he speaks of, we need to be sure it is that terrible, and define exactly what Hell is, and from what I've gathered over the years, God has intentionally made it to where we cannot pinpoint what exactly it entails.
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Indeed, there is a place called Hades, and there is in Christ's account a kind of consciousness there, and a degree of suffering, and it is not the lake of fire, which is only after the day of judgement.
I'm sure that is much worse than if it was torturing you.
As am I, but my point is, it can go so far in either direction, we simply don't know. My concern comes from the "burning skin" for eternity that was taught for so long, and though it may be more than a gnat, I think it's much less than that.
We cannot judge God unfair until we know for certain his so-called unfair actions.
God does not wish to frighten you.
I don't recall any skin burning.
Many preachers of the past have tried to put that out there...seems to me it's hard to miss, but if you did, oh well.
Where in the bible do you see the creation of Hell? Everywhere Heaven is compared or contrasted, it is with the earth "On earth as it is in heaven," "loose in heaven, loosed on earth," "Set treasures in heaven, not on earth" " In the beginning,....created heavens and the earth"Many preachers of the past have tried to put that out there...seems to me it's hard to miss, but if you did, oh well.
Where in the bible do you see the creation of Hell? Everywhere Heaven is compared or contrasted, it is with the earth "On earth as it is in heaven," "loose in heaven, loosed on earth," "Set treasures in heaven, not on earth" " In the beginning,....created heavens and the earth"
When do you feel hell was made? Or could earth be the hell referred to?
Why do I need to see the creation of Hell, or know when it was made?
So you are saying there is no fire and brimstone Hell? I'd say that's taking things a bit far in the opposite direction of my thoughts on the matter.
When you say "earth" could be the hell referred to, are you saying it's the conventional Hell, but located on earth, or that this is Hell now?
One thing I am certain of, there is a not so pleasant place set aside for the wicked, and pretending it's not there could be a costly mistake.
Im asking questions, not making any statements. If hell was never created in the bible, why are you so sure it exist? I personally, dont need a torture chamber, or pearly gates to serve God.....Serving God is my duty.....so whatever i believe about hell wont cost me anything because it is not part of my plan for salvation (avoidance of it, that is).
Just thoughts....nothing to be taken serious......especially if you need it to want to serve God.....by all means, believe in it.
You seem to have avoided all of the inquiries about your hell to discuss me personally or what you think i think about myself. This shows me you are all out of man's wisdom and therefore need to try to attack people. You say that a place exist that was never created.....and that isnt could be referring to the things that were created....because your whole belief system fails unless you create this place..... doesnt seem like a solid foundation to me.
You say you love God.....but you also fear a hell....which you believe is not one of the places created in the beginning.... If I had enough time on my hands, I would wonder whether you are being honest with yourself.......but i dont have the time...
As Christians our belief is that believers in Christ and the bible will go to heaven and non-believers will be cast into hell for eternal damnation.
That is a pop-modern version of a christian doctrine, but reality is not like that.
Paul deals with this topic in the book of romans in a very brilliant way, the first two chapters talks about the state of man withotu christ. the gospel of christ comes in halfway in chapter 3. In chapter 2 it is said that every man, jew or gentile, have the law. jews of course have it written, but every gentile is also a lwa by themselves ebcause they have the law written in their hears and the conscien tesifies about it, and this is what the judgement will be by, either for good or evil. Christian doctrine say every man that is not a christian will be danmed in the judgement, and everyone who is a christian will go to heaven. But paul in this context are not at all talking about christians or believers in christ at all, he is talking about the general judgement of all men. ANd he does NOT AT ALL say all wil go to hell, but they will all be judged accoprding to their hearts, and justly.
Tru gospel doctrine is that any man in christ is already judged on the cross, and will never again come before judgement. There are multitudes of scriptures on this. But who ever say that only christians makes it in the final judgement has totally mis understood the gospel. True belivers in christ is, according to the biblwe, already risen from the dead and seated in heaven with christ, there is no more judgement for them. Its the nations that will be judged. This is what f inst matt 25 judgement is all about, where some will go to eternal life and others to eternal pain. The sheep on the left the goats on the rigth etc. There are NO true belivers in these groups....they are the "saints" taht is coming with him becaue they are in christ and no judgemetn will ever come upon them again, that is thr only true understanding of the parable.
So your question is based upon a very bad udnerstanding of the bible, and youre not to be blamed for it, because it has been spread by unknowledgable people. I was one of them so....
I've just come to a realisation that the Bible is an ancient text written by and for a small group of Middle Eastern tribesman. What other than our belief (which may be misled / uneducated) helps us place the Bible ahead of any other ancient text (e.g. Qaran)???
I was brought up in a Christian household but of late have hit some pretty big hurdles.
I know I'll be able to find answers trawling through the forums but thought this would be the most efficient to deal with my questions.
My key questions are:
As Christians our belief is that believers in Christ and the bible will go to heaven and non-believers will be cast into hell for eternal damnation. Eternal damnation = much worse than torture or pain...How can we reconcile that we have a kind and loving God when he is willing to cast the majority of humanity into ETERNAL DAMNATION? Someone could live a righteous and perfect life without having the opportunity to learn about Christ and suffer eternal damnation whereas someone who has sinned but repented will go to heaven?
Nowhere is murder condoned... dont have a clue as to why you believe that. Sexism? More modern gobbly gook. YOu make a VERY flawed assumption based upon relative moralism... you ASSUME that modern moralistic views are teh most correct view....[/quote]How do you guys deal with the scores of bible verses (I won't list them...) that conflict with scientific, social and epistemological progression? E.g. Those condone murder, sexism, slavery etc. Yes, these were different cultural times, but are we then picking and choosing (e.g. slavery was a product of cultural times whilst homosexuality is not and is definitely a sin).
Lastly...
I've just come to a realisation that the Bible is an ancient text written by and for a small group of Middle Eastern tribesman. What other than our belief (which may be misled / uneducated) helps us place the Bible ahead of any other ancient text (e.g. Qaran)???
Sorry for the broad / controversial questions...important time in my life and I'm struggling to make sense of it all.
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