Having some questions and concerns about God's will and justice system.

[stars1777]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?


3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

 

[Clare73]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

Those who have never heard the gospel will be judged by their obedience to their conscience.

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?

The same way it is just for me to go up to the Court House and pay my brother's penalty for driving 40 mph over the speed limit.

3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

Burning in hell is not for individual sins, it is for rejecting Jesus Christ, the remedy for all your sin.

With God there are only two options, you are either for him (and submit to him), or against him (and do not submit to him).
There is absolutely no in-between.
Therefore, if you are not for him, that makes you against him. . .but with time to change before you die.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?


3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

1) I couldn't see how it would be just for people to live forever in paradise after sinning their whole life long. Then I realized that Christianity is not about what is just but about forgiveness and mercy. I assume that God extends that forgiveness and mercy to all and that as long as one accepts that Gace one will have eternal life. I therefore cannot give an argument that condemns anyone since i have no knowledge of what they have experienced of Grace.

2) Christ was not punished for our sins. He atoned for sin by voluntarily sacrificing Himself for all. This is not like what is being proposed in many areas as reparations. It is a misnomer to call something reparations when innocents are punished for sin, they had no part in, for the purpose of benefitting people who were not the ones that were sinned against.

3)Saying that Christians believe X can make one look ill-informed. One would always be best served by saying some Christians believe X. Outside of the basic tenets that one finds in the Apostle's Creed, there are few things that all Christians believe. Engaging in sin is a punishment in and of itself. One misses out on the joy of doing only what is beneficial and wholesome. As everyone sins, everyone deserves this punishment. What Christ offers is forgiveness, not eternal damnation. If eternal punishment in a burning unquenchable fire is reality, BTW not all Christians agree this is the case, then many of us believe that one must choose eternal damnation not that one is consigned to it.

 

[d taylor]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?


3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

The Bible really does not address people who die with out ever hearing about Jesus.

God originally chose (in Genesis) the payment for Adams sin was blood. God knew that only He could make that payment. So God planned to come into the world and take on a human body so He could die and pay the price of blood, that he originally stated was the payment for man's sins.

Sin has been paid for at the cross, people do not end up in the lake of fire because of sin. But because they never believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life, the life of God. They are separated from God because to spend eternity with God requires the life of God, which is acquired by faith in Jesus.

 

[Clare73]

1) I couldn't see how it would be just for people to live forever in paradise after sinning their whole life long. Then I realized that Christianity is not about what is just but about forgiveness and mercy. I assume that God extends that forgiveness and mercy to all and that as long as one accepts that Gace one will have eternal life. I therefore cannot give an argument that condemns anyone since i have no knowledge of what they have experienced of Grace.
2) Christ was not punished for our sins. He atoned for sin by voluntarily sacrificing Himself for all. This is not like what is being proposed in many areas as reparations. It is a misnomer to call something reparations when innocents are punished for sin, they had no part in, for the purpose of benefitting people who were not the ones that were sinned against.

Reparation is repairing a wrong.
It is not a misnomer to refer to as reparation my voluntarily paying the fine at the Courthouse for my brother's traffic violation.
I am "accepting" his punishment for breaking the law.

 

[Blaise N]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?


3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

I don’t have an answer for 1,but for two and three I can help you with.

2.) when Adam and Eve first sinned,God in his loving mercy paid the penalty for them,which basically is this;
Sin is an offense and universal crime,death is required for sin because God requires total sinlessness to be declared righteous,blood is the payment for sin,therefore,someone must die when they sin.God killed two “beasts” and used their blood to pay for Adam and eves sin,clothing them as well in the hides.God basically gave them a way to have their sins forgiven,to sacrifice special livestock and offer them for forgiveness.Nobody likes to kill an animal,who knows no wrongs,making it worse because the animal is innocent,it’s meant to strike sense into people of the horrible consequences and requirements for sin.


The ancient Jewish levicitcal laws,given to Moses by God himself stated clearly that if someone wanted their sins forgiven they had to sacrifice specific livestock based on their social-economic status.poor people were to offer two doves,higher citizens were to offer larger animals such as lambs,ox,cattle,etc,

The saddest part is that for someone of modest status was to offer a lamb without blemish(which is exactly what Jesus was).Kill and offer a completely innocent lamb for someone’s selfish trespasses.I personally think it was meant by God to be an eye opener,to make people think before disobedience and the debt for sin.


The lord Jesus Christ was a sinless lamb.completely innocent and with no blemish,he died in those who believe in hims place so they wouldn’t have to die eternally for eternal offenses.Jesus offered himself to be sacrificed,why?,out of Love.Jesus is the just payment because he was sinless and the only way to truly pay and cover a persons sins is to die for them.


3.)Sin is sin,no matter how abhorrent,a little white lie or theft is just as bad as an act of genocide,cannibalism,or rape.The only time sin is compared to severity is over the unpardonable sin,As Jesus said all manner of sins shall be forgiven,but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Sin is sin and it’s not a guilty pleasure,it’s a condemning act of selfishness,I as a Christian cannot express to a sane level how much I loathe sin,I absolutely hate it,hate hate hate hate HATE IT.Sin is to be hated;not praised like the world tends to do.

My dearest friend,I hope this helped,please don’t become prideful in yourself because of these questions;stay with Jesus!

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?

If it makes you feel any better - I never understood this either. haha
No one has ever been able to explain it in a way that it made sense to me. It still doesn't.
Im not one of those who is satisified that "someone, anyone" goes to jail.
The only thing i can come up with is, its a teaching to appease people who weren't ready to scrap the sacrifice system of pleasing god. It gives them a way of moving on and getting to a higher spirituality.???

 

[Clare73]

If it makes you feel any better - I never understood this either. haha
No one has ever been able to explain it in a way that it made sense to me. It still doesn't.

It's no different than my voluntarily paying the fine at the Courthouse for my brother's traffic violation.
I am "accepting" his punishment for breaking the law.

But more importantly, it is the pattern established by God in the OT sacrificial system for the remission of sin in the NT.

Im not one of those who is satisified that "someone, anyone" goes to jail.

Well, I thank God that the rapists, murderers, child molestors, etc. are not running the streets.

The only thing i can come up with is, its a teaching to appease people who weren't ready to scrap the sacrifice system of pleasing god. It gives them a way of moving on and getting to a higher spirituality.???

If that's all you got, that explains a lot.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Well, I thank God that the rapists, murderers, child molestors, etc. are not running the streets.

They could be if someone else can take their punishment.
I think you misread my paragraph. Here’s a refrase - I’m not one of those people who believes it’s acceptable for an innocent person to volunteer to take the punishment of the guilty. Imagine if I could take the punishment of the murderer so they could be free.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

If that's all you got, that explains a lot

Get off your high horse

 

[Clare73]

They could be if someone else can take their punishment.
I think you misread my paragraph. Here’s a refrase - I’m not one of those people who believes it’s acceptable for an innocent person to volunteer to take the punishment of the guilty. Imagine if I could take the punishment of the murderer so they could be free.

But jail time is not just for punishment, it is all for protecting society.

Jail time cannot be passed to someone else unless both objectives are satisified.

 

[Clare73]

Get off your high horse

OK. . .jes' fer you.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

But jail time is not just for punishment, it is all for protecting society.

Jail time cannot be passed to someone else unless both objectives are satisified.

I’ll be honest - I didn’t read your reply.

I’ve spoken to you before, it’s just round and round in circles. I never get a good answer - I assumed at the time you didn’t have a good answer and didn’t want to say “I don’t know” - so, rather than say that you just argued in circles and filled your replies with cut/pastes you wouldn’t explain.

It’s not worth the trouble.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

OK. . .jes' fer you.

I didn’t think that would work??!

You actually did it ??!!

 

[Blade]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?


3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

Hi well who's "Jesus" are we talking about? See Christ said if you were bind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains. So as I see it most are blind. Christ came to His own and they rejected Him killed Him and yet He said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". Think about that. He knows the heart after all they saw heard He knew they still didn't see and were blind. Its far easier to be saved then lost. I mean the thief we don't know his life.. could have just been a thief or did far worse yet "remember me when you come in to your kingdom". He is now with Christ forever.

Just those coming out of the great tribulation " a number no man could number". Yeah.. one would think most of them would have been lost

 

[Clare73]

I’ll be honest - I didn’t read your reply.

I’ve spoken to you before, it’s just round and round in circles. I never get a good answer - I assumed at the time you didn’t have a good answer and didn’t want to say “I don’t know” - so, rather than say that you just argued in circles and filled your replies with cut/pastes you wouldn’t explain.

It’s not worth the trouble.

In addition to being confused about Christianity, I think you also have me confused with someone else. . .

 

[Blaise N]

They could be if someone else can take their punishment.
I think you misread my paragraph. Here’s a refrase - I’m not one of those people who believes it’s acceptable for an innocent person to volunteer to take the punishment of the guilty. Imagine if I could take the punishment of the murderer so they could be free.

My dearest friend,regardless of what you may think,that’s the way God decreed it.


“But why did God do it?”,we Christians are selfless,we sacrificially love others dearly and don’t care if there’s zero payoff for doing so.I understand you may be hurt by it,saddened and cut deep that someone innocent had to die for our sins.I grieve over it almost every now and then,I hate sin and what it did to Jesus.

What I should ask is this my friend,it takes great humility to accept this sacrifice,he did it to save those he has elected.Understanding the loving action he took and accepting this sacrifice will utterly change your life,I beg you confused by Christianity,please accept his sacrifice,he lives!,he’s not dead eternally,his body isn’t even here on earth! He’s alive and well.I suggest you focus on that!,his resurrection.Would you accept his sacrifice to cleanse yoy?

 

[Stephen3141]

Good afternoon everyone. Recently, I have been thinking about a few questions that came into mind. I want to have a simple and honest discussion here and I don't mean to cause any trouble at all. Here are my questions:

1. There is a big question about what happens to people who died and never heard of the Gospel or Jesus Christ. Some folks say that these people go to hell automatically and that they are without excuses at all. My question to the people who believe this is how exactly would these people even be able to reach out to God and know the truth to get a fair chance? I understand what Paul says in Romans about the creation being an argument for the true God's existence but remember that these people from uncontacted tribes and those who lived before Jesus Christ obviously grew up in different religions that taught different things from what we learned in the Bible. So how exactly would it be just for those people to be burning in hell forever because they didn't know the truth?

2. Christians basically say that the atonement of Jesus Christ, who is a perfect and innocent person, died in our place and took our punishment for all of humanity's sins upon him on the cross even though he was innocent so we can go to be with God in the New Heaven and Earth. My question is how exactly is it just for an innocent person to die and face the punishment for somebody else?


3. Christians believe in an eternal burning hell. I honestly agree that sin should be punished somehow. However, how would it be just to say that the punishment for every sin has to be the same exact thing? Why should someone who just stole something or probably lied to their family about something be punished with the same punishment of burning for an eternity in hellfire along with someone who is a mass genocidal dictator? I just don't understand why every single sin is punished the same way like that.

These are good questions. I can't answer them all. But I can point you in some relevant directions.

-- On God offering to forgive sins... If God offers to do something, such as receive the death of Jesus as a way in which those who repent of their sins, can be forgiven, then I don't see how we can argue with that. It may, or may not make sense to us. But if God is making this offer, then I don't have to get some explanation that makes sense to me.

-- God has made offers, in the past, to forgive sins. This was a point in the covenant with the ancient Jews, called the law of Moses. God guaranteed that if the Jews did specific things, then he would forgive their sins. (This is debated by some Protestant Fundamentalist groups. But a careful study of the Old Testament will show that God does offer the forgiveness of sins, in the law of Moses.)

-- As for the "good news", Protestant Fundamentalists often take this phrase in the New Testament in a much more restrictive way, than the language of the Bible means. We see the book of Hebrews, in the New Testament, talking about "saints" in the Old Testament. It is clear, that they are redeemed. But it is also clear, that they never heard of Jesus, or God's "new deal" for the forgiveness of sins, in the New Testament. Those who claim that someone must believe their "gospel" (as they understand it), or they cannot have their sins forgiven, aren't familiar with the biblical language in the Old Testament. I would not impose the New Testament language about Jesus as the Savior, onto people before the coming of Jesus as a baby in the Incarnation.


I would suggest that God has given human beings some guaranteed ways in which they can be forgiven, and healed of their sinfulness. We have examples of these in the law of Moses, and the New Covenant (the message of the New Testament). BUT, outside of these agreements, God has shown that he is merciful, and willing to forgive. We see an example of this in Abraham. And the New Testament states that we should have the same kind of faith, that Abraham had (in God).

There is a lot of very narrow and strident rhetoric that some groups use, to describe how one must come to God. But the reality is that the Bible has examples of people outside of the law of Moses, or the new Covenant, coming to God and being considered righteous. It is better to study the entire Bible, than rely on the strong rhetoric of one or another Christian denomination.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

You must have me confused with someone else. . .

not possible.

that would mean i'm wrong about something.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

My dearest friend,regardless of what you may think,that’s the way God decreed it.


“But why did God do it?”,we Christians are selfless,we sacrificially love others dearly and don’t care if there’s zero payoff for doing so.I understand you may be hurt by it,saddened and cut deep that someone innocent had to die for our sins.I grieve over it almost every now and then,I hate sin and what it did to Jesus.

What I should ask is this my friend,it takes great humility to accept this sacrifice,he did it to save those he has elected.Understanding the loving action he took and accepting this sacrifice will utterly change your life,I beg you confused by Christianity,please accept his sacrifice,

Thanks for your response

he lives!,he’s not dead eternally,his body isn’t even here on earth! He’s alive and well.

Yes - He certainly is

I suggest you focus on that!,his resurrection.Would you accept his sacrifice to cleanse yoy?