Have you read these Christian Philosophers for Apologetic Value?

[2PhiloVoid]

Obviously, this is the Apologetics Forum in which the rubber actually meets the road, and all of the Christian talking, thinking, philosophizing, and theologizing come to bear upon how we not only conceive our own faith, but in how we present (or defend it) to others.

Everyone is familiar with the typical Apologetics list that is often brought out and to which people most often go for "Christian Answers" to all those nasty complexities of religious thought that everyone wrestles with in some way or other. And while there is indeed much to learn from the usual names that are brought out on behalf of Christian faith, such as C.S. Lewis, William Lane Craig, Lee Stroble, R.C. Sproul, Josh McDowell, etc., etc., there are also a whole host of Christian Philosophers whom also can be brought in for further, in-depth, and variable, consideration on the philosophical and theological issues that pique our interests.

In this thread I'm providing some lists for everyone to peruse. These lists are by no means exhaustive, since there are a couple of dozen names that could be added that aren't present. Or there are some unknown Christians who have degrees in philosophy and/or related academic fields who go unnoticed and might deserve mention like: Merold Westphal (post-modern philosopher), Catherine Clark Kroeger (Theologian/Ethicist/Women's Rights), Basil Mitchell (analytic philosopher), and some like Hans Urs von Balthazar (a philosophical theologian).

So, if you have ever read anyone on these lists (other than C.S. Lewis or WLC ), go ahead and comment about them in this thread and maybe a little about what he/she means to you. Or, if you have some names that you know are Christian Philosophers and you want to add them, then please do so.

1) Category:Christian philosophers - Wikipedia

2) Christian philosophy - Wikipedia

3) https://www.amazon.com/God-Philosop...7192&sr=8-2&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

4) https://www.amazon.com/Philosophers...7192&sr=8-1&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

Enjoy whatever discussion comes about here ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[erealmz]

Does Chuck Missler count? Or would you consider him the Christian version of David Icke?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Does Chuck Missler count?

I'm not familiar with Missler, although I've heard of his name. If he has academic credentials and writes material that is philosophically relevant and apologetically applicable, then sure...he could count.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Silmarien]

Only Hans Urs Von Balthasar, and only in part!

When I was in France, I grabbed Blaise Pascal's Pensées, as well as stuff by Saint Francis de Sales, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and Gabriel Marcel.

Of the two who are modern, Teilhard de Chardin was an idealist philosopher and paleontologist whose major project was in theistic evolution, and Marcel was a French existentialist who didn't become Christian until he was forty! I wish I'd been able to find more by him, since he was an opponent of Sartre after his conversion, and it would be an interesting interplay to witness, at least for those of us ex-Sartreans out there.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Only Hans Urs Von Balthasar, and only in part!

When I was in France, I grabbed Blaise Pascal's Pensées, as well as stuff by Saint Francis de Sales, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and Gabriel Marcel.

Of the two who are modern, Teilhard de Chardin was an idealist philosopher and paleontologist whose major project was in theistic evolution, and Marcel was a French existentialist who didn't become Christian until he was forty! I wish I'd been able to find more by him, since he was an opponent of Sartre after his conversion, and it would be an interesting interplay to witness, at least for those of us ex-Sartreans out there.

I haven't come across de sales or Marcle before, so I'll have to check them out. But I am familiar with Teilhard de Chardin, and I even purchased one of his books several years ago, The Phenomenon of Man. I have yet to read it all, but it sounds interesting.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Only Hans Urs Von Balthasar, and only in part!

When I was in France, I grabbed Blaise Pascal's Pensées, as well as stuff by Saint Francis de Sales, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and Gabriel Marcel.

Of the two who are modern, Teilhard de Chardin was an idealist philosopher and paleontologist whose major project was in theistic evolution, and Marcel was a French existentialist who didn't become Christian until he was forty! I wish I'd been able to find more by him, since he was an opponent of Sartre after his conversion, and it would be an interesting interplay to witness, at least for those of us ex-Sartreans out there.

So, what is your favorite 'fragment' of Pascal, Silmarien?

 

[Silmarien]

So, what is your favorite 'fragment' of Pascal, Silmarien?

I'll need to read the thing and then get back to you! Here's hoping that 17th century French isn't too wild! I'm a bit nervous after taking a look at Francis de Sales's 16th century French, but hopefully 100 years will make the difference.

 

[Dirk1540]

4) https://www.amazon.com/Philosophers...7192&sr=8-1&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

Wow, an 11 for 1 book!! This one looks too good to pass up on!

 

[GUANO]

I'll check these out. I have a hard time believing that Christianity is compatible in any way with postmodernism, critical theory, or the like. Should be interesting.

 

[Dirk1540]

I'll check these out. I have a hard time believing that Christianity is compatible in any way with postmodernism...

I think that there are pro-Christian moments of clarity available to the postmodern mindset, and possibly that those specific style of clarity moments would even be more powerful to the postmodern than the non-postmodern. But the postmodern mindset unfortunately misses out on awesome stuff when it comes to appreciation of historical Jesus/resurrection studies. Maybe this is ok. Maybe we need our expert specialists in various mindsets who can best teach us that having different mindsets is perfectly fine.

And even as a person who loves the category of historical Jesus study the MOST, I find it extremely unlikely that a person's fate with Jesus is tied to how the person tends to process historical data! Until recently I thought postmoderns were placed into my life to drive me insane lol. I now find that they are teaching me lessons.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Wow, an 11 for 1 book!! This one looks too good to pass up on!

Yes, but the book I listed just before that is even better ...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'll check these out. I have a hard time believing that Christianity is compatible in any way with postmodernism, critical theory, or the like. Should be interesting.

If you want a harder hitting book that covers this kind of thing, then I'd suggest, Christianity and the Postmodern Turn: Six-Views (Myron B. Penner, ed.)

 

[Dirk1540]

Yes, but the book I listed just before that is even better ...

Thanks! One of the benefits of me bending your ear so much is that you know exactly what I like and what I don't like lol. Your recommendation to GUANO looks good too, I really like those head to head view vs view vs view...books

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Obviously, this is the Apologetics Forum in which the rubber actually meets the road, and all of the Christian talking, thinking, philosophizing, and theologizing come to bear upon how we not only conceive our own faith, but in how we present (or defend it) to others.

Everyone is familiar with the typical Apologetics list that is often brought out and to which people most often go for "Christian Answers" to all those nasty complexities of religious thought that everyone wrestles with in some way or other. And while there is indeed much to learn from the usual names that are brought out on behalf of Christian faith, such as C.S. Lewis, William Lane Craig, Lee Stroble, R.C. Sproul, Josh McDowell, etc., etc., there are also a whole host of Christian Philosophers whom also can be brought in for further, in-depth, and variable, consideration on the philosophical and theological issues that pique our interests.

In this thread I'm providing some lists here for everyone to peruse. These lists are by no means exhaustive, since there are a couple of dozen names that could be added that aren't here. Or there are some unknown Christians who have degrees in philosophy and/or related academic fields who go unnoticed and might deserve mention like: Merold Westphal (post-modern philosopher), Catherine Clark Kroeger (Theologian/Ethicist/Women's Rights), Basil Mitchell (analytic philosopher), and some like Hans Urs von Balthazar (a philosophical theologian).

So, if you have ever read anyone on these lists (other than C.S. Lewis or WLC ), go ahead and comment about them in this thread and maybe a little about what he/she means to you. Or, if you have some names that you know are Christian Philosophers and you want to add them, then please do so.

1) Category:Christian philosophers - Wikipedia

2) Christian philosophy - Wikipedia

3) https://www.amazon.com/God-Philosop...7192&sr=8-2&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

4) https://www.amazon.com/Philosophers...7192&sr=8-1&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

Enjoy whatever discussion comes about here ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Well, since there's been such a landslide of responses here, I guess it's nearly safe to assume that the answer to the OP title question is: "no," or "hardly."

Ok. It is what it is. On to the next OP idea then...!

[But, I do hope these lists I've provided help in assisting anyone who might be interested ... ]

 

[cloudyday2]

Do any of those apologists try to examine the evidence as opposed to philosophizing? I know that some evidence is totally subjective, but other evidence is not quite so subjective.

Imagine if we debated explanations for UFOs, and we only discussed speculative arguments that UFOs could in theory be space probes launched thousands of years ago from some nearby star, but we never talked about the actual UFO sightings. Then some people might decide to believe because it makes them feel better? That's the problem I see with Christian apologetics.

EDIT: And I mean modern evidence that we have some hope of investigating - not the arguments based on events from 2000 years ago ("who would die for a lie?", etc.)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Do any of those apologists try to examine the evidence as opposed to philosophizing? I know that some evidence is totally subjective, but other evidence is not quite so subjective.

Imagine if we debated explanations for UFOs, and we only discussed speculative arguments that UFOs could in theory be space probes launched thousands of years ago from some nearby star, but we never talked about the actual UFO sightings. Then some people might decide to believe because it makes them feel better? That's the problem I see with Christian apologetics.

EDIT: And I mean modern evidence that we have some hope of investigating - not the arguments based on events from 2000 years ago ("who would die for a lie?", etc.)

Cloudy, these lists are of Christian philosophers and/or academic theorists, not apologists. This means that they typically choose and then delve into a specific topic of philosophical import. One philosopher who has an interest in a better understanding of the nature of faith will analyze religious thought and the constructs of forms of religious "knowledge." Or, one who has an interest in the historical merits of the Christian faith will do so by looking at aspects of the Philosophy of History as applies to various Christian ideas or the Bible more than the rudiments of historiography, even if it might touch upon the latter.

So, these lists might include a few apologists like WLC, but for the most part these writers are different than what you'd typically expect from someone like him. For a specific instance, while the typical apologist would try to give the usual account of theodicy in addressing the Problem of Evil, a Christian philosopher like Eleonore Stump will not only identify and look at the Problem of Evil from a Christian perspective, but she will also explore it, lay it out, and attempt to discern deeper inherent implications that may be relevant to our understanding about the suffering we find in our world and our various exposures to it.

So, this is the kind of difference you'll find, Cloudy. I hope this brief explanation helps to show the difference in all this ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Dirk1540]

Obviously, this is the Apologetics Forum in which the rubber actually meets the road, and all of the Christian talking, thinking, philosophizing, and theologizing come to bear upon how we not only conceive our own faith, but in how we present (or defend it) to others.

Everyone is familiar with the typical Apologetics list that is often brought out and to which people most often go for "Christian Answers" to all those nasty complexities of religious thought that everyone wrestles with in some way or other. And while there is indeed much to learn from the usual names that are brought out on behalf of Christian faith, such as C.S. Lewis, William Lane Craig, Lee Stroble, R.C. Sproul, Josh McDowell, etc., etc., there are also a whole host of Christian Philosophers whom also can be brought in for further, in-depth, and variable, consideration on the philosophical and theological issues that pique our interests.

In this thread I'm providing some lists here for everyone to peruse. These lists are by no means exhaustive, since there are a couple of dozen names that could be added that aren't here. Or there are some unknown Christians who have degrees in philosophy and/or related academic fields who go unnoticed and might deserve mention like: Merold Westphal (post-modern philosopher), Catherine Clark Kroeger (Theologian/Ethicist/Women's Rights), Basil Mitchell (analytic philosopher), and some like Hans Urs von Balthazar (a philosophical theologian).

So, if you have ever read anyone on these lists (other than C.S. Lewis or WLC ), go ahead and comment about them in this thread and maybe a little about what he/she means to you. Or, if you have some names that you know are Christian Philosophers and you want to add them, then please do so.

1) Category:Christian philosophers - Wikipedia

2) Christian philosophy - Wikipedia

3) https://www.amazon.com/God-Philosop...7192&sr=8-2&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

4) https://www.amazon.com/Philosophers...7192&sr=8-1&keywords=philosophers+who+believe

Enjoy whatever discussion comes about here ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Well, since there's been such a landslide of responses here, I guess it's nearly safe to assume that the answer to the OP title question is: "no," or "hardly."

Ok. It is what it is. On to the next OP idea then...!

[But, I do hope these lists I've provided help in assisting anyone who might be interested ... ]

Wow. A person who quotes their own post, talk about vain. Lol just kidding I've probably pulled that move more than most ha. Yeah it's funny how you can never tell if a thread will take off. I once created a thread with a video that had to do with evolution. It went over 1,000 posts, not a single person watched the video or commented on it's content. Somewhere at about post #400 I tried to steer it back on track, only one person replied to me and basically said "Dude, nobody cares about the video!" Hahhahah

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Wow. A person who quotes their own post, talk about vain. Lol just kidding I've probably pulled that move more than most ha. Yeah it's funny how you can never tell if a thread will take off. I once created a thread with a video that had to do with evolution. It went over 1,000 posts, not a single person watched the video or commented on it's content. Somewhere at about post #400 I tried to steer it back on track, only one person replied to me and basically said "Dude, nobody cares about the video!" Hahhahah

Lol! Well, this isn't the first time that I've had little to no responses to an OP I've created. And as far as this particular thread, I didn't 'really' expect much to begin with. I know very well that most people don't get into Philosophy, and it's not that they always need it either, necessarily. No, my purpose for this thread was two-fold: 1) to offer up some access to additional resources for anyone who might feel interested, and 2) to 'probe' for the level of response that would actually result. So far, my general expectations are confirmed. And that isn't a knock against people--rather it's just a result of the fact that people aren't looking for what they either don't feel is helpful or for what they don't know even exists.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[cloudyday2]

Cloudy, these list are of Christian philosophers and/or academic theorists, not apologists. This means that they typically choose and then delve into a specific topic of philosophical import. One philosopher who has an interest in a better understanding of nature of faith will analyze religious thought and the constructs of forms of religious "knowledge." Or, one who has an interest in the historical merits of the Christian faith will do so by looking at aspects of the Philosophy of History more than the rudiments of historiography, even if it might touch upon the latter.

So, these lists might include a few apologist like WLC, but for the most part these writers are different than what you'd typically expect from someone like him. For a specific instance, while the typical apologist would try to give the usual account of theodicy, a Christian philosopher like Eleonore Stump will identify and look at the Problem of Evil from a Christian perspective, but she will also explore it, lay it out, and attempt to discern deeper inherent implications that may be relevant to our understanding about the suffering we find in our world and our various exposures to it.

So, this is the kind of difference you'll find, Cloudy. I hope this brief explanation helps to show the difference in all this ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

O.k. so they assume Christianity is true and then philosophize about the implications? I guess that is of no interest to me, but there are lots of academic fields that are of no interest to me.

 

[Dirk1540]

Lol! Well, this isn't the first time that I've had little to no responses to an OP I've created. And as far as this particular thread, I didn't 'really' expect much to begin with. I know very well that most people don't get into Philosophy, and it's not that they always need it either, necessarily. No, my purpose for this thread was two-fold: 1) to offer up some access to additional resources for anyone who might feel interested, and 2) to 'probe' for the level of response that would actually result. So far, my general expectations are confirmed. And that isn't a knock against people--rather it's just a result of the fact that people aren't looking for what they either don't feel is helpful or for what they don't know even exist.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

That's true, it probably wasn't destined to take off. I'll have to go back and double check a few posts from you, Sil, and Uber...I know that you 3 have also talked about philosophers who straddle the fence, for instance non-Christians who defend metaphysical God. Uber posted a few of 'The Best' atheist philosophers but I still never pulled the trigger on them because the reviews make it sound like they are difficult reads for a beginner.