Have you ever noticed how God signed the Bible to show that he wrote it?

[Tone]

Could God's word not stand on it's own without them?

His Word became flesh. His written Word are symbols as well.

It makes sense to me. He created us as thinking and speaking beings (among other things).

Messiah says He is the Aleph and the Tav, the Beginning and the End.

Today, we can express this as A-Z.

Ephesians 4:10
"He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things."

 

[awitch]

His Word became flesh. His written Word are symbols as well.

It makes sense to me. He created us as thinking and speaking beings (among other things).

Messiah says He is the Aleph and the Tav, the Beginning and the End.

Today, we can express this as A-Z.

Ephesians 4:10
"He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things."

I was expecting more of a yes or no answer as I am unfamiliar with these concepts (it's gibberish to me).

But if that's a yes, then I am forced to question God's motives for intentionally introducing complexity to a system that requires as much simplicity as possible for the highest potential of saved souls.

 

[Tone]

I was expecting more of a yes or no answer as I am unfamiliar with these concepts (it's gibberish to me).

But if that's a yes, then I am forced to question God's motives for intentionally introducing complexity to a system that requires as much simplicity as possible for the highest potential of saved souls.

You're unfamiliar with the alphabet?!

Are you asking, why the written word?


That's actually a good question.


Animals do not read or write.

Would you say that animals are more or less complex than us?

 

[dlamberth]

You're unfamiliar with the alphabet?!

Are you asking, why the written word?


That's actually a good question.


Animals do not read or write.

Would you say that animals are more or less complex than us?

Interesting question, but the more complex God is made to be, the less I believe that perspective. The animal analogy is a great place to start. We Humans like things complex. Animals not so much so. Animals swim in God's Grace, fully. They don't even think about it as they live life. We Humans on the other hand, in making things complex, have the hardest time with all of that.

 

[Tone]

Interesting question, but the more complex God is made to be, the less I believe that perspective. The animal analogy is a great place to start. We Humans like things complex. Animals not so much so. Animals swim in God's Grace, fully. They don't even think about it as they live life. We Humans on the other hand, in making things complex, have the hardest time with all of that.

Hmmm, this is interesting.

So, when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, an animal needed to be slain soon after, to cover their nakedness.

And when humans began to write it was upon animal skins, among other things. In other words... something had to suffer.

Maybe the fruit of that tree had something to do with abstract thinking, which must necessarily lead to writing.

Whatever the case, whether writing was a step up or a step down, the point of my earlier posts was that Messiah did come down, and went deeper still, to rise again unto ascension, taking authority over all realms.

 

[awitch]

You're unfamiliar with the alphabet?!

I'm going to ignore this bit inanity.

Are you asking, why the written word?

No, my point is that any deity that would intentionally obfuscate the meaning of the key required for everyone's salvation clearly does not have our best interests at heart. "Malicious" is the word I would use.

 

[Tone]

No, my point is that any deity that would intentionally obfuscate the meaning of the key required for everyone's salvation clearly does not have our best interests at heart. "Malicious" is the word I would use.

Oh, well, there is only One Saviour and He is not the obfuscator, that would be our own sight.


1 Corinthians 13:12
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

 

[garee]

Why would a benevolent deity use codes, hidden patterns, special requirements for understanding, or any other form of ambiguity when the soul of every human to ever exist hinges on accepting His word?

I would offer we should be careful how we hear or say we hear what the Spirit says to the denominations. .

The father of lies is there trying to snatch the incorruptible seed, the light of God’s Holy word by which men are born again from .. .above.

We must walk by faith the unseen eternal understanding not after the present what the eyes see under the Sun, the temporal corrupted.

The promise no man has received (Hebrew 11:39) is a new incorruptible body in a new incorruptible heaven and earth. And as sons of God (new creatures) given a new spirit and heart (the seat of desires) that could never die . . we do not know what we will be .(no procreation )

1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It would seem the old testament used ceremonial laws as shadows to represent the coming of our bloody savior beforehand and the glory that did follow . . the opening of their graves the first ressurection.

Mark 4 speaks directly. but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

It would appear its the signified tongue or poetic tongue he has chosen to bring prophecy (the word of God)In the end needed to hide the unseen gospel of faith from those who he has given no interest by which they could repent or turn towards him who does work in us to both reveal and empower them to perform His good will ...believe God not seen.

That law of parables is not subject to change again is ; without parables Christ our teacher spoke not. Therefore along with the literal temporal historical accuracy he reveals the gospel meaning hid from unbelievers . The law of faith .

You could say another layer of meaning hid that one must dig if moved by the Holy Spirit to work with us to find again the gospel hid from natural unconverted mankind .

Natural mankind that refuses to obey the law in so much that without parables Christ the Holy Spirit of God spoke not they must try and literalize. They simply no not mix faith the unseen eternal with the temporal things seen and heard .

They remain parables without the unseen understanding added referred to as hidden Manna in Revelation 2:17.

Manna the bread from heaven the food of unfamiliarity that the disciples knew not of. it empowers us to Do the will of the unseen Holy Father that dwells in the born again believer.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Proverbs are moral parables .The word proverb is the same word as parable or figure the signified language of God .

In that way the whole period of time that there was Kings in Israel (the abomination of desolation) it was used as a parable/figure for that time period until the time of reformation .Again using the things made the temporal to signify the unseen eternal in the new heavens and earth.

Hebrew 9:8 -11The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

 

[awitch]

Oh, well, there is only One Saviour and He is not the obfuscator, that would be our own sight.

If the hidden codes and patterns etc were God's design, then he is the one who is obfuscating by complicating the key to salvation which I would expect to be as clear and understandable as possible to save the most the souls. (Assuming God is benevolent and wants to save the most souls.)

To suggest that people obfuscate the meaning suggests they should NOT be looking for such codes and patterns, which is inconsistent with your earlier post suggesting we should not be so quick to dismiss them.

Which is it?

 

[Tone]

If the hidden codes and patterns etc were God's design, then he is the one who is obfuscating by complicating the key to salvation which I would expect to be as clear and understandable as possible to save the most the souls. (Assuming God is benevolent and wants to save the most souls.)

To suggest that people obfuscate the meaning suggests they should NOT be looking for such codes and patterns, which is inconsistent with your earlier post suggesting we should not be so quick to dismiss them.

Which is it?

I'm not saying that codes or symbolism is the primary way to approach the Bible, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water either.

I never said that the Bible codes were salvific.

As far as the written word goes, salvation is presented in the mode of story.

We are multifaceted beings so we are inclined to seek truth in manifold ways.

Bible codes do not spell out my salvation, but they do appeal to my sense of order and design. And it is said that "He is a God of order".

 

[awitch]

I never said that the Bible codes were salvific.

I understand that. I've been trying to say they are actually the opposite this whole time.

Bible codes do not spell out my salvation, but they do appeal to my sense of order and design. And it is said that "He is a God of order".

I sense I'm not being understood, then.
Let me rephrase: Does deciphering such codes provide any extra important understanding of scripture meaning that would not otherwise be gleaned from a straightforward reading of the text? Is any aspect of Christianity dependent on the codes or are they just cool window dressing?

 

[Tone]

I understand that. I've been trying to say they are actually the opposite this whole time.

You think the codes are a hindrance to salvation?

Does deciphering such codes provide any extra important understanding of scripture meaning that would not otherwise be gleaned from a straightforward reading of the text?

Well, yeah, but perhaps only for the mature in the faith. I wouldn't begin with them.

As they say, the Gospel is "the greatest story ever told" and this is a fitting medium, because every child can understand a simple story.

Is any aspect of Christianity dependent on the codes or are they just cool window dressing?

It depends on what we are talking about. If by code we mean the structure and characters behind the biblical language then, yes, Christianity depends on it as it may be described as a "People of the Book" religion.

 

[awitch]

You think the codes are a hindrance to salvation?

Yes, have you not been reading my posts?

Well, yeah, but perhaps only for the mature in the faith. I wouldn't begin with them.

As they say, the Gospel is "the greatest story ever told" and this is a fitting medium, because every child can understand a simple story.

This is the inconsistency that is so frustrating.
If there are hidden codes and patterns then it clearly is not simple enough for even children to understand. And if there's important information that is not readily apparent to everyone, then yes, it is a hindrance to salvation. Why hide information when everyone's eternal soul is hinging on the most clear and concise understanding?

 

[garee]

Yes, have you not been reading my posts?





This is the inconsistency that is so frustrating.
If there are hidden codes and patterns then it clearly is not simple enough for even children to understand. And if there's important information that is not readily apparent to everyone, then yes, it is a hindrance to salvation. Why hide information when everyone's eternal soul is hinging on the most clear and concise understanding?

How would that affect the law of interpretation that without parables Christ spoke not hiding the unseen from natural unconverted mankind?

Parables as prophecy do give clear and concise understanding.

 

[awitch]

How would that affect the law of interpretation that without parables Christ spoke not hiding the unseen from natural unconverted mankind?

Parables as prophecy do give clear and concise understanding.

Parables are great to help illustrate a point, and I don't think they are an issue unless it's unclear to reader that it's actually a parable and not meant to be taken literally. For example, some say the story of Noah was literal, others say parable. That's a significant amount of confusion to put in a book where acceptance or rejection has eternal consequences.

But I'm talking about Bible codes: things like removing spaces and punctuation and looking at every few characters or words to find sentences that supposedly predict events in modern times. It used to be popular to demonstrate these hidden messages as proof of the authenticity of the Bible...until it was demonstrated you can do this with any sufficiently long story. I believe "Moby Dick" was shown to have all sorts of similar predictions in it, for example.