Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

yeshuaslavejeff

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Read the scripture that both you and I posted.
Hebrews 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
"Reading Scripture" didn't help many in the past and present.

What is the difference between those who, like religious leaders today and like religious folk today and like the scribes and pharisees who opposed Jesus (though they memorized all Scripture, and knew it "better" than anyone here today, so to speak) , whom Jesus' cursed,

and the little children who welcomed Jesus, whom Jesus blessed ?
 
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Der Alte

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"Reading Scripture" didn't help many in the past and present.
What is the difference between those who, like religious leaders today and like religious folk today and like the scribes and pharisees who opposed Jesus (though they memorized all Scripture, and knew it "better" than anyone here today, so to speak) , whom Jesus' cursed,
and the little children who welcomed Jesus, whom Jesus blessed ?
What is your point? How does this post contribute to the discussion?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What is your point? How does this post contribute to the discussion?
The solution is not reading Scripture. That's one point, required to know so the real and true solution can be realized, if possible, YHWH Willing.

Realize also, on this site, the real and true solution might remain hidden due to the rules of the site.
 
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Der Alte

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The solution is not reading Scripture. That's one point, required to know so the real and true solution can be realized, if possible, YHWH Willing.
2 Timothy 2:15
(15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Realize also, on this site, the real and true solution might remain hidden due to the rules of the site.
Hardly. I don't need a Jim Jones or David Koresh to tell me how to read/understand the Bible.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Hardly. I don't need a Jim Jones or David Koresh to tell me how to read/understand the Bible.
Right. That would be entirely sinful for you to do or to expect.

Who is it that is the only one who can grant understanding of Scripture to anyone ?
 
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Der Alte

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Right. That would be entirely sinful for you to do or to expect.
Who is it that is the only one who can grant understanding of Scripture to anyone ?
I addressed this in my previous post.
 
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Der Alte

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No,
you only addressed who NOT to seek understanding from.
Yes I did. Did you read the scripture I posted? Don't like that one how about this one?
James 1:5
(5) If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Yes I did. Did you read the scripture I posted? Don't like that one how about this one?
James 1:5
(5) If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
All Scripture from YHWH is WONDERFUL! LIFE GIVING! INSPIRING !

The one you posted previously did not say who to receive revelation /understanding from.

This one does.
 
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Der Alte

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All Scripture from YHWH is WONDERFUL! LIFE GIVING! INSPIRING !
The one you posted previously did not say who to receive revelation /understanding from.
This one does
.
Who would I be receiving revelation/understanding from reading God's word?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Who would I be receiving revelation/understanding from reading God's word?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Most often (among men)? From the enemy of Christ, like the Scribes and Pharisees and Saducess/ the religious leaders and Torah teachers, who opposed Jesus.
 
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ClementofA

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Wrong! Read the scripture that both you and I posted.
Hebrews 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
"Death without mercy" was certainly a punishment imposed when someone disobeyed the Law of Moses. The phrase "sorer punishment" refers back to something. There is nothing about "Moses law" or "word of 2 or 3 witnesses" which could be considered "punishment" the only thing is this passage which could be considered "τιμωρία/timoria a penalty: - punishment." is "death without mercy."

So for those who have "trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace" there is a punishment worse than dying without mercy.

Death is not a punishment or painful. Death is the instant of cessation of life in this world. It involves, to the consciousness of the soul, leaving this life for another life, this world for another world & this realm for another.

The painful "sorer punishment" than capital punishment under "Moses' law" is the point of contrast with those Christ rejectors of whom the writer of Hebrews speaks as deserving of worse punishment.

Methods of capital punishment under Moses law included stoning and burning, etc. These are painful ways to die, hence the reference to "sorer punishment" deserved to Christ rejectors in Heb.10:28. Unlike such means of capital punishment under Moses' law, which were "sore", instant death by a more merciful method would not be "sore".

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Capital Punishment

10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
 
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Der Alte

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....The painful "sorer punishment" than capital punishment under "Moses' law" is the point of contrast with those Christ rejectors of whom the writer of Hebrews speaks as deserving of worse punishment....
Posting the same copy/paste over and over does not miraculously make it true. This part of your post does not make any sense at all.
.....No matter what you say or how often you say it. "Death without mercy" was certainly a punishment imposed when someone disobeyed the Law of Moses. The phrase "sorer punishment" refers back to something. There is nothing about "Moses law" or "word of 2 or 3 witnesses" which could be considered "punishment" the only thing is this passage which could be considered "τιμωρία/timoria a penalty: - punishment." is "death without mercy." I'm quite sure those who disobeyed the law and were put to death considered it punishment.

Hebrews 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
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ClementofA

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Posting the same copy/paste over and over does not miraculously make it true.

Except there were added comments, so it wasn't the same.

The phrase "sorer punishment" refers back to something.

Yes, soreness of punishment refers back to some things:

1. death under "Moses law"
2. by the witness of 2 or 3 witnesses

What made that death "sore". Stoning? Burning by fire?

Christ rejectors are to get a comparable yet worse, i.e. sorer, punishment. Not endless oblivion or tortures.

Wrong! Read the scripture that both you and I posted.
Hebrews 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
"Death without mercy" was certainly a punishment imposed when someone disobeyed the Law of Moses. The phrase "sorer punishment" refers back to something. There is nothing about "Moses law" or "word of 2 or 3 witnesses" which could be considered "punishment" the only thing is this passage which could be considered "τιμωρία/timoria a penalty: - punishment." is "death without mercy."

So for those who have "trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace" there is a punishment worse than dying without mercy.

Death is not a punishment or painful. Death is the instant of cessation of life in this world. It involves, to the consciousness of the soul, leaving this life for another life, this world for another world & this realm for another.

The painful "sorer punishment" than capital punishment under "Moses' law" is the point of contrast with those Christ rejectors of whom the writer of Hebrews speaks as deserving of worse punishment.

Methods of capital punishment under Moses law included stoning and burning, etc. These are painful ways to die, hence the reference to "sorer punishment" deserved to Christ rejectors in Heb.10:28. Unlike such means of capital punishment under Moses' law, which were "sore", instant death by a more merciful method would not be "sore".

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Capital Punishment

10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
 
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Der Alte

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... Death is not a punishment or painful. Death is the instant of cessation of life in this world. It involves, to the consciousness of the soul, leaving this life for another life, this world for another world & this realm for another.
Methods of capital punishment under Moses law included stoning and burning, etc. These are painful ways to die, hence the reference to "sorer punishment" deserved to Christ rejectors in Heb.10:28. Unlike such means of capital punishment under Moses' law, which were "sore", instant death by a more merciful method would not be "sore".

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Capital Punishment
Did you bother to read the article at the link you posted? Note the title "Capital Punishment" Capital punishment means 'death." There is nothing in this entire article which mentions, refers to, compares or contrasts how 'sore" any "punishment" is. Some form of the word punish/punishment occurs 31 times in this article. Sore does not occur even one time but the article does say this.
The Pentateuchal law (Lev. xix. 18) prescribes, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy-self"; and the Rabbis maintain that this love must be extended beyond the limits of social intercourse in life, and applied even to the convicted criminal who, "though a sinner, is still thy brother" (Mak. iii. 15; Sanh. 44a): "The spirit of love must be manifested by according him a decent death" (Sanh. 45a, 52a).
"Decent death" NOT more or less painful.
 
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ClementofA

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Did you bother to read the article at the link you posted? Note the title "Capital Punishment" Capital punishment means 'death." There is nothing in this entire article which mentions, refers to, compares or contrasts how 'sore" any "punishment" is. Some form of the word punish/punishment occurs 31 times in this article. Sore does not occur even one time but the article does say this.
The Pentateuchal law (Lev. xix. 18) prescribes, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy-self"; and the Rabbis maintain that this love must be extended beyond the limits of social intercourse in life, and applied even to the convicted criminal who, "though a sinner, is still thy brother" (Mak. iii. 15; Sanh. 44a): "The spirit of love must be manifested by according him a decent death" (Sanh. 45a, 52a).
"Decent death" NOT more or less painful.


It doesn't take a brain surgeon or a degree in rocket science to realize death by stoning or burning is a "violent" way to die & involves pain:

"Only in comparatively few instances is the particular mode of death incurred by the commission of a crime prescribed. Blasphemy, idolatry, Sabbath-breaking, witchcraft, prostitution by a betrothed virgin, or deceiving her husband at marriage as to her chastity (Deut. xxii. 21), and the rebellious son are, according to the Pentateuchal laws, to be punished with death by stoning; bigamous marriage with a wife's mother and the prostitution of a priest's daughter are punished by burning; communal apostasy is punished by the sword. With reference to all other capital offenses, the law ordains that the perpetrator shall die a violent death, occasionally adding the expression, "His (their) blood shall be upon him (them)." This expression, as we shall see presently, post-Biblical legislation applies to death by stoning."

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com

In so-called "civilized" countries today such methods are not used for capital punishment. Can you guess why.

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
 
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Der Alte

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It doesn't take a brain surgeon or a degree in rocket science to realize death by stoning or burning is a "violent" way to die & involves pain:
All irrelevant! There are four different types of capital punishment in the Bible for violating the law. All have one thing in common they result in death without mercy. Read Hebrews again, a "sorer punishment" than "death without mercy" Not how much pain is involved.
Begin quote
"Only in comparatively few instances is the particular mode of death incurred by the commission of a crime prescribed. Blasphemy, idolatry, Sabbath-breaking, witchcraft, prostitution by a betrothed virgin, or deceiving her husband at marriage as to her chastity (Deut. xxii. 21), and the rebellious son are, according to the Pentateuchal laws, to be punished with death by stoning; bigamous marriage with a wife's mother and the prostitution of a priest's daughter are punished by burning; communal apostasy is punished by the sword. With reference to all other capital offenses, the law ordains that the perpetrator shall die a violent death, occasionally adding the expression, "His (their) blood shall be upon him (them)." This expression, as we shall see presently, post-Biblical legislation applies to death by stoning."
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com

End quote
In so-called "civilized" countries today such methods are not used for capital punishment. Can you guess why.
You might want to to start a thread about this. It is not relevant to this thread.
 
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ClementofA

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All irrelevant! There are four different types of capital punishment in the Bible for violating the law. All have one thing in common they result in death without mercy. Read Hebrews again, a "sorer punishment" than "death without mercy" Not how much pain is involved.

What is referred to in Heb.10:28-29 is not "capital punishment in the Bible", but capital punishment of an individual under "the law of Moses" and "on the testimony of two or three witnesses". Therefore the reference can be to either death by (1) stoning and or (2) by fire.

Read Hebrews again, a "sorer punishment" than "death without mercy" Not how much pain is involved.

When one punishment is "sorer" than another punishment that means more pain is involved.

The phrase "sorer punishment" refers back to something.

Yes, soreness of punishment refers back to some things:

1. death under "Moses law"
2. by the witness of 2 or 3 witnesses

What made that death "sore". Stoning? Burning by fire?

Christ rejectors are to get a comparable yet worse, i.e. sorer, punishment. Not endless oblivion or tortures.

Wrong! Read the scripture that both you and I posted.
Hebrews 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
"Death without mercy" was certainly a punishment imposed when someone disobeyed the Law of Moses. The phrase "sorer punishment" refers back to something. There is nothing about "Moses law" or "word of 2 or 3 witnesses" which could be considered "punishment" the only thing is this passage which could be considered "τιμωρία/timoria a penalty: - punishment." is "death without mercy."

So for those who have "trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace" there is a punishment worse than dying without mercy.

Death is not a punishment or painful. Death is the instant of cessation of life in this world. It involves, to the consciousness of the soul, leaving this life for another life, this world for another world & this realm for another.

The painful "sorer punishment" than capital punishment under "Moses' law" is the point of contrast with those Christ rejectors of whom the writer of Hebrews speaks as deserving of worse punishment.

Methods of capital punishment under Moses law included stoning and burning, etc. These are painful ways to die, hence the reference to "sorer punishment" deserved to Christ rejectors in Heb.10:28. Unlike such means of capital punishment under Moses' law, which were "sore", instant death by a more merciful method would not be "sore".

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Capital Punishment

10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times

If endless punishment were true & victims of infanticide all go to heaven
 
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Der Alte

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. . . When one punishment is "sorer" than another punishment that means more pain is involved. . .
I certainly appreciate this irrelevant, unsupported opinion. Here is the word translated "sorer" χέρης/cherēs (of uncertain derivation); more evil or aggravated (physically, mentally or morally): - sorer, worse. Sorry does not support the expressed opinion.
 
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ClementofA

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I certainly appreciate this irrelevant, unsupported opinion. Here is the word translated "sorer" χέρης/cherēs (of uncertain derivation); more evil or aggravated (physically, mentally or morally): - sorer, worse. Sorry does not support the expressed opinion.

What gives you that idea?

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times

Is there salvation after death?
 
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