Have you always been a Reformed Christian?

[Dansiph]

The chapter explains the Presbyterian view of government. It's in reference to the last line of your last post.

Ahh ok. By political I was referring to the Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland issues. Also Protestant and Catholic issues as well. It's not something I care about. If hypothetically I went to a Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster church, I don't want to be involved in that side of it. Tbh I don't even know how big of an issue it is nowadays.

 

[St_Worm2]

Do you know anything about UK Presbyterian Denominations? I like the look of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster. They have a US branch btw. EDIT: I don't like the more political side of it though.

I've heard of the Free Presbyterian Church here in the States, but I don't know anything about it (I would assume that, just like Evangelical Free and Methodist Free churches, the "Free" part of the name means that it chose to not be affiliated with the State in anyway).

We have a number of Presbyterian denominations here that run from very conservative to very liberal, so I believe your best bet would be to research the Free Presbyterian denomination (and the local church you are planning to attend) and see what they teach. If you are interested in a truly conservative Presbyterian church, see if they still hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith, as well the inerrancy and infallibility of the Holy Writ. If they do, chances are very good that you have found a conservative church.

God bless you!

--David

 

[Dansiph]

I've heard of the Free Presbyterian Church here in the States, but I don't know anything about it (I would assume that, just like Evangelical Free and Methodist Free churches, the "Free" part of the name means that it chose to not be affiliated with the State in anyway).

We have a number of Presbyterian denominations here that run from very conservative to very liberal, so I believe your best bet would be to research the Free Presbyterian denomination (and the local church you are planning to attend) and see what they teach. If you are interested in a truly conservative Presbyterian church, see if they still hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith, as well the inerrancy and infallibility of the Holy Writ. If they do, chances are very good that you have found a conservative church.

God bless you!

--David

According to their website: Reformed in Doctrine, believing in the divine authority and verbal inspiration of the Bible and the great fundamental doctrines of grace it contains. In keeping with the position of the reformed confessions, the Free Presbyterian Church holds that the Scriptures alone are the supreme authority in matters of faith and practice. Believing it to be the most reliable translation, the Free Presbyterian Church uses only the Authorized Version (KJV) of the Bible. The Free Presbyterian Church subscribes the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Articles of Faith

 

[St_Worm2]

If you are looking for traditional/conservative in a Presbyterian denomination, it seems like that’s what you’ve found

It sounds like a church that I would go to if I lived where you do

—David

 

[Dansiph]

If you are looking for traditional/conservative in a Presbyterian denomination, it seems like that’s what you’ve found

It sounds like a church that I would go to if I lived where you do

—David

If you're interested the US Website has a lot more info than the UK one. FPCNA — Free Presbyterian Church of North America

 

[St_Worm2]

Thank you

There's no FPC in my hometown unfortunately, but I have family that I'm hoping to visit soon in Indianapolis, so that will be the church I attend while I'm there (assuming COVID-19 is not a factor, of course).

I'll let you know what I think of it.

 

[Radagast]

I think you’ll find that modern theology is tending to accept a weaker concept of omnipotence than traditional

Personally, I think that when people deny the fundamental attributes of God, they stop being Christian.

 

[Dansiph]

Thank you

There's no FPC in my hometown unfortunately, but I have family that I'm hoping to visit soon in Indianapolis, so that will be the church I attend while I'm there (assuming COVID-19 is not a factor, of course).

I'll let you know what I think of it.

Yeah let me know!

My plan atm is to attend the Independent Baptist church near me when it opens again. Which should be this Sunday coming although there'll be rules to adhere to regarding COVID-19.

I am worried about my looking at Reformed beliefs and the church not being Reformed. If I was to eventually change to a Reformed belief it'd be hard to change churches. Especially considering I'll be attending with my Mum who is not interested in Calvinism. She's the only other Christian in my family. As of right now it's ok because I'm not Calvinist. It's just something I feel I need to research for myself.

 

[JM]

According to their website: Reformed in Doctrine, believing in the divine authority and verbal inspiration of the Bible and the great fundamental doctrines of grace it contains. In keeping with the position of the reformed confessions, the Free Presbyterian Church holds that the Scriptures alone are the supreme authority in matters of faith and practice. Believing it to be the most reliable translation, the Free Presbyterian Church uses only the Authorized Version (KJV) of the Bible. The Free Presbyterian Church subscribes the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Articles of Faith

There are several positions taken on the KJV, my church uses the KJV as the ecclesiastical text but people use whatever Bible they prefer. Sounds like you found a decent congregation to attend.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Dansiph]

There are several positions taken on the KJV, my church uses the KJV as the ecclesiastical text but people use whatever Bible they prefer. Sounds like you found a decent congregation to attend.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I myself only use the KJV. The other two churches who are Reformed in my area both use the KJV although one of them allows people to use others. Similar to your church. There is a third church but I can't tell which Bible version they use. Their website just says something like we affirm the 66 books found in the KJV but the way they've worded it I think they just mean from a historical standpoint.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Have you since coming to saving faith always been a part of a Reformed or Calvinist church?

Lastly are there any here who used to be Reformed or Calvinist who are no longer Calvinist in belief?

Thanks

I've been reformed since I came to saving faith, and examined the various teachings of other churches and found reformed to be the only sound teaching...

 

[Dansiph]

I've been reformed since I came to saving faith, and examined the various teachings of other churches and found reformed to be the only sound teaching...

Have you been saved long?

What are some things that make Reformed beliefs "the only sound teaching" for you?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Have you been saved long?

What are some things that make Reformed beliefs "the only sound teaching" for you?

Not terribly long no.... just under 6 years since I was saved.

For me reformed theology kind of steamrolled out of the view of a sovereign God, which is the argument that ultimately led me to faith in Christ to begin with.

If your starting point is with x view of God being absolutely sovereign, then the entire reformed theology follows suit in the reading of scripture quite naturally... I couldn't help but see it this way, the more I learned scripture after becoming saved...

A good book for you might be Grudems Systematic Theology, it's not pricey, and takes you through reformed theology in a manner the layman can easily understand.

Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine

 

[Dansiph]

Not terribly long no.... just under 6 years since I was saved.

For me reformed theology kind of steamrolled out of the view of a sovereign God, which is the argument that ultimately led me to faith in Christ to begin with.

If your starting point is with x view of God being absolutely sovereign, then the entire reformed theology follows suit in the reading of scripture quite naturally... I couldn't help but see it this way, the more I learned scripture after becoming saved...

A good book for you might be Grudems Systematic Theology, it's not pricey, and takes you through reformed theology in a manner the layman can easily understand.

Ok, I was just curious. I've been saved since mid 2018. God being sovereign is a new concept for me (sort of). Obviously I know who's in charge!

I saw Grudem's book suggested in a video as a "Baptist alternative" to the Systematic Theology by Louis Berkhoff. Thanks for the suggestion. I'm reading a book about Presbyterians atm and I have two more short Puritan books to read before I get another. I'll bookmark it in my browser.

 

[Dansiph]

I wanted to ask here for explanations of repentance. Explain what you think repentance unto salvation involves. Since becoming a Christian I thought of repentance as aknowledging your sin and realising the penalty. Then turning from unbelief to belief in Jesus for salvation.

However I keep hearing "turn from sins" in Reformed cirlces. What does this mean? Even the Pastor of my local church said we have to be "sorry" for our sin. He doesn't always mention repentance he mostly mentions faith, believing, trusting etc. He does use the phrase "repent of your sins" sometimes though. I don't get this tbh. Surely repenting of a sin is a work?

I also keep hearing "it's two sides of the same coin". You can't repent without believing and you can't believe without repenting. Can someone explain?

 

[hedrick]

I’m from a liberal wing of the Reformed tradition, so I’m not sure whether this answer will be the same as for traditionalists, but maybe.

Jesus uses the term “repent” to refer to changing the direction of your life.

The Reformed tradition cares more about sin than sins. Sin being our orientation, our inability or even lack of desire, to do the right thing. Individual sins are a result of this. There, too, what matters is the change in direction, accepting responsibility for sins and changing motivation away from self to others and God.

Repentance, then, is more that change in direction than being sorry for individual sins. Obviously someone who is repentant in this broad sense will also accept responsibility for specific sins and thus be repentant there. But if you focus primarily on having to repent from every sin, it becomes legalistic, a "work" as you say. God is not sitting there with a list of sins, ready to punish us if we miss one. The worry that he might be (as well as a concern that repentance doesn’t count unless it’s perfect) was one of the primary concerns Luther had before his enlightenment.

It’s interesting to note that Jesus doesn’t refer to sins, except their forgiveness. He speaks of judgement a number of times, and that can be based on mistreating people or not showing fruit, He talks about various things we aren’t supposed to do — though he tends to focus on intent. But he doesn’t actually talk about sins as a category, except their forgiveness. He certainly does talk about repentance, as changing from someone who is opposed to God’s way of life to one who is follows it.

Paul is more focused on individual sins. I conjecture that this is at least in part because he was dealing with converts from a pagan background with appallingly different standards for behavior. Still, while he expects his converts to follow Christians standards of behavior, he doesn't set up this expectation that you have to be sorry for every sin you have committed or you're in trouble. He also uses the term repent primarily for a change in direction.

 

[Dansiph]

I’m from a liberal wing of the Reformed tradition, so I’m not sure whether this answer will be the same as for traditionalists, but maybe.

Jesus uses the term “repent” to refer to changing the direction of your life.

The Reformed tradition cares more about sin than sins. Sin being our orientation, our inability or even lack of desire, to do the right thing. Individual sins are a result of this. There, too, what matters is the change in direction, accepting responsibility for sins and changing motivation away from self to others and God.

Repentance, then, is more that change in direction than being sorry for individual sins. Obviously someone who is repentant in this broad sense will also accept responsibility for specific sins and thus be repentant there. But if you focus primarily on having to repent from every sin, it becomes legalistic, a "work" as you say. God is not sitting there with a list of sins, ready to punish us if we miss one. The worry that he might be (as well as a concern that repentance doesn’t count unless it’s perfect) was one of the primary concerns Luther had before his enlightenment.

It’s interesting to note that Jesus doesn’t refer to sins, except their forgiveness. He speaks of judgement a number of times, and that can be based on mistreating people or not showing fruit, He talks about various things we aren’t supposed to do — though he tends to focus on intent. But he doesn’t actually talk about sins as a category, except their forgiveness. He certainly does talk about repentance, as changing from someone who is opposed to God’s way of life to one who is follows it.

Paul is more focused on individual sins. I conjecture that this is at least in part because he was dealing with converts from a pagan background with appallingly different standards for behavior. Still, while he expects his converts to follow Christians standards of behavior, he doesn't set up this expectation that you have to be sorry for every sin you have committed or you're in trouble. He also uses the term repent primarily for a change in direction.

How do we change direction?

I believe I am saved but I didn't change direction, I just changed my mind about God, sin and The Bible. I feel I changed direction as a result of getting saved and it's a continuous process. I'm not being argumentative I am trying to get repentance locked down in my head.

 

[hedrick]

How do we change direction?

I believe I am saved but I didn't change direction, I just changed my mind about God, sin and The Bible. I feel I changed direction as a result of getting saved and it's a continuous process. I'm not being argumentative I am trying to get repentance locked down in my head.

I would say that changing your mind about God, sin, and the Bible is repentance in the broad sense that I meant. Remember that Reformed Christianity doesn't expect that there's always an instant "born again" experience, though certainly some people have them.

The general order (which is more a logical order than necessarily a chronological one) is that you are "regenerated", and as a result come to faith. Part of that is repentance, an acceptance of responsibility for your sin. As a result of faith two things happen: (1) Justification, which is a change of your status, being accepted by God as righteous, because of Christ. (2) Sanctification.

Sanctification is growth into what God wants you to be. That happens over the course of your life, and is never in this life completed, and may even have setbacks. Justification, however, is God's acceptance of you, based on Christ. It doesn't change, even when you have temporary setbacks.

So I think what you've described is an initial coming to faith and repentance, and the beginning of what Reformed theology calls sanctification. Of course with faith also comes justification.

Ongoing repentance from individual sins is part of sanctification.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I think I agree with Hedrick's explanation, but I would have summarized it by saying that:

Repentance is a deep regret about something and a determination to never let it happen again.

 

[Dansiph]

I think I agree with Hedrick's explanation, but I would have summarized it by saying that:

Repentance is a deep regret about something and a determination to never let it happen again.

That's the explanation that worries me really. I only started to feel deep regret after I got saved. TBH I just believed I was on my way to hell and Jesus was the saviour. I also knew I would sin again.