4sightsounds
Not playing games...
Tawhano said:What Paul is saying here is clearly that he will do both, pray in the spirit (in tongues) and pray in his own understanding. Paul says in the preceding verse that when he prays in an unknown tongue, his spirit prays, but his understanding is unfruitful. So how did you come up with the conclusion that he fully understood what he was saying?
Greetings, Tawhano... Hope you don't mind me addressing your questions a little at a time.
Here's the previous verse:
1st Cor. 14:14
KJV - "For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."
NASB - "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful."
Now, where does it say that Paul prayed in the manner that you state? You see, God does not abuse, misuse or misplace words. Thank God for that. The passage says IF I was to behave in this manner, it would be void of the use of my mind....please pause and think about this. Then re-read verse 15 and tell me CONTEXTUALLY what Paul was saying. Without the influence of our paradigm, but based on what the words in the passages say. Then go onto verse 16. You will not be able to put 15 and 16 in proper context without understanding that Paul did not speak in an unknown tongue.
Where is babbling mentioned anywhere in Corinthians? Paul clearly says that a person speaking in tongues is speaking to God not babbling as you misinterpret. Speaking mysteries in HIS OWN spirit but not the Holy Spirit? Where did you pluck that from?
Well, if you're speaking unintelligable words that cannot be understood by the listener, without understanding of what you're saying yourself, wouldn't that be babbling?
Take a look at the following verses: 1st Cor 14:2,4,13,14,19,26,and 27. Notice that the word used in these passages is a singular noun (tongue) as opposed to the plural usage in 1st Cor 12:28 (various types of tongues), Acts 2:4 (other tongues) and the like.
Mostly everyone freely admits that these are two different types of occurences. One meaning various languages (hence, the plural designation), the other being an unknown language (singular). The problem comes in when we try to make sense of what Paul is saying about the unknown language.
The unknown tongue that is referred to by Paul is more accurately referred to as ecstatic utterences. Any good commentary worth its salt will describe this unknown language this way. ...and here is where it is an absolute must to put this letter in its proper context.
Once again, pagan worship was dragged into the Corinthian assembly. Paul referred to it in the beginning of Chapter 12. In Chapter 13:1 Paul refers to these utterences as the noise of gongs and cymbals. (???) Now, immediately upon reading this I thought to myself, there has to be something significant behind his use of words...and indeed there is.
Sounding brass and tinkling cymbals were instruments used in pagan rituals in Corinth. Don't take my word for it. You could probably do a search and pull up a ton of info on it. Paul knew ehat he was doing when he referred to these instruments becasue what they were engaging in was their old pagan rituals which included speaking in unknown tongues.
I must stop here for now.
I'll be back tomorrow
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