Anti-Christ European Have I found the framework for the Seven Year Covenant?(Agreement)

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
lamad, you have your parenthesis started in the wrong place. Go back to verse 1, the parenthesis start there in the front of verse 1, as it is the angel telling John what to do. And it is the angel speaking on behalf of God telling John all about the two witnesses all the way to verse 13.

What the angel told John about everything in Chapter 11, largely about the two witnesses as you say could be considered a parenthesis - if one chooses to express it that way. That segment of Revelation ends in verse 13.

The angel in verse 1 is no longer speaking in verse 14.

But John speaking, picking up where he left off where he saw the killing of a third of mankind, the second woe.

I disagree. John broke from his real-time narrative between the 6th and 7th seal, and I call that an "Intermission." Others might call it something different.

I consider that John started into another "intermission" in chapter 10, and that intermission continued on to 11:14. There are two verses of "real-time" of the 7th trumpet sounding, then it is right back into an intermission. I call this the midpoint intermission. It continues on until chapter 15. However, there is chronology and parentheses in John's intermission. (There is no chronology in a parenthesis.)

Where is John, chronology speaking, in 11:1? Six trumpets have sounded, and the first half of the week is coming to an end. But something happens to start the first countdown to the end: the city will suddenly begin to be trampled by Gentiles. This is timing and it is chronology. It is the first mention of five events that will go from near the midpoint to near or at the end.

John shows us TWO events that begin at this moment in time: first, whatever it will be that will cause the trampling, and next, the two witnesses suddenly showing up. I believe it is the man of sin entering Jerusalem with Gentile armies that will begin the first countdown of 42 months. I further believe that the two witnesses show up then because the man of sin entered Jerusalem then.

I understand others may come up with a different theory. I believe they will find out they were mistaken.

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
Can you not read this text and see that before the war in heaven there are 1260 days and after the war in heaven there is a time, times, and half times?

Revelation 12:6 is NOT after the war in heaven.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[the ones who fled into the wilderness, from day 1185 to day 1260]
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

[the ones who did not flee in time, held captive, from escape]
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I don't know how this got posted before I wrote anything. Now I have to write in edit mode.

What can John do when several things happen at the same time? He cannot write of them simultaneously! He must write one thing first and then another.

I believe Michael has been waiting a very long time for that 7th trumpet to sound, for He knows that is his signal to go to war with Satan.

At the same time, the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven to mark the moment that the man of sin will enter the temple and become the abomination. so the truth is, the fleeing and the war will start almost at the same time.

Why do you keep throwing in a crazy number of 1185? It is nonsense!

Go back to Daniel 9:27 and discover the week is divided exactly in half (God is good with math) when some event causes the daily sacrifices to cease. As much as you might wish to change this, it cannot be changed. When the man of sin enters the temple and the sacrifices are stopped: there will be 1260 days lert of the week, and it will happen on the 1260th day. This event will divide the week.

Jesus told those living in Judea to flee when they see the abomination. Therefore 12:6, when they begin to flee, will be only seconds after the man of sin enters the temple. Their "flight" will last for 1260 days. That is what is written and your theories cannot change that. I take that to mean, it will be on the 1260th day when Jesus sets them free from I guess Petra.

12:14 is added about the same group that fled in 12:6 and adds more information: not only will they flee, but they will be supernaturally protected and fed. And it will be for 3 1/2 years - the same time period as the 1260 days and the 42 months.

The remnant are new believers and those (probably Gentiles) that did not get raptured out - All those who love Jesus but are still on the planet.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

iamlamad said:
This is exactly what we see in Revelation with these times. John simply does not give us any times (such as 1260 days or 42 months for the first half of the week. We know the first half is there, between the 7th seal and 7th trumpet, but no time is given.

`The first half is found in Revelation 12:6 and Revelation 11:3. The beginning of the seven years is the first seal, the rider on the white horse given a crown, the Antichrist, who becomes the perceived messiah, King of Israel.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

iamlamad said:
disagree. John broke from his real-time narrative between the 6th and 7th seal, and I call that an "Intermission." Others might call it something different.

Who is speaking in verse 1?

Revelation 11:
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

_______________________________________________________________
Intermission is a very poor choice of words to describe Chapter 10.

John has just seen the second woe of the sixth trumpet, the killing of a third of mankind. Then at Chapter 10 was presented another vision and given the little book to eat. Then was told about the two witnesses.

Then John returned to the trumpets in Revelation 11:14, the third woe as he hears the seventh trump sound.

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
The problem is that you have the two witnesses 1260 days testimony in the wrong place, by not sticking with the text.

The time, times, half times in the text has to with Satan - the amount of time of the third woe.

Where the events fall....

first half
the 1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6

second half
the 3 1/2 days
the 42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
the time, times, half times, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14.

My friend, it is you who are attempting to rearrange the text! The two witnesses first mention is in chapter 11, a midpoint chapter, not in chapter 7, 8 or 9 when the week begins.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Sorry, but this is more about the woman (those in Judea that fled) than about the Dragon. She will be supernaturally protected as she flees and after she arrives - probably in Petra.

Again I must challenge your thinking: NONE Of the time periods given, whether in days, months or years, are given for the first half of the week. You are simply mistaken.

It is a real twist to make chapter 11, verse 2 the last half, and verse 3 the first half! Ha ha!

It is not in any way the Author's intent! Both are for the last half of the week.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

iamlamad said:
My friend, it is you who are attempting to rearrange the text! The two witnesses first mention is in chapter 11, a midpoint chapter, not in chapter 7, 8 or 9 when the week begins.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Sorry, but this is more about the woman (those in Judea that fled) than about the Dragon. She will be supernaturally protected as she flees and after she arrives - probably in Petra.

Again I must challenge your thinking: NONE Of the time periods given, whether in days, months or years, are given for the first half of the week. You are simply mistaken.

It is a real twist to make chapter 11, verse 2 the last half, and verse 3 the first half! Ha ha!

The events in the chapters from Revelation 6 to Revelation 20 are either in the first half or second half.

It is the events themselves, not what chapters they are presented in, that determines whether they are in the first half or second half..

If only Revelation 12 existed, there would be 1260 days before the war in heaven; and the time, times, half a times after the war in heaven.

It is a real twist to make chapter 11, verse 2 the last half, and verse 3 the first half! Ha ha

The event itself of verse 2, the 42 months is the same 42 months in Revelation 13:5, in the second half.

The event itself of verse 3, the 1260 days is the same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven. The 1260 days is the first half.

Davy · Jan 30, 2018

Marilyn C said:
Ok Davy,

However as Jerusalem is still there when the Lord returns sounds like it is not the `city` of Babylon.

Marilyn.

God already destroyed the old city of Babylon. You can read about it in the OT prophets. Sadam tried to rebuild it and failed.

The Revelation Babylon is a latter day symbol applied spiritually to Jerusalem the "great city". We were shown this kind of application in Rev.11 about God's two witnesses being killed in Jerusalem:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

Revealing Times · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
RT, I have a degree in civil engineering. In my career position (now retired), part of my job as a project engineer was to take complicated and numerous tasks and events, everything from environmental impact statements, to long lead time material items procurement, coordination of different engineering disciplines, engineering field work, procurement times, construction times, to beneficial occupancy, to capitalization and incorporate those on a project schedule - a timeline.

The process is similar to putting the bible prophecy events on a timeline.

And you can't add this simple math !! Maybe its true what they say, some people are built where if they ever get an idea implanted in them they just can't change off that figuration no matter what facts are presented.

Douggg said:
What I had wrote regarding the account of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, is that they will die on day 1260 of the 2520 day 7 year timeline. And ascend on day 1263.5, leaving 1256.5 days in the 2520 days, which the bible refers to as 42 months.

This is NOT POSSIBLE....So from the 2nd Woe (Two-witnesses die here or in close proximity) to the 7th Vial lasts for 1256.5 days, that's ludicrous brother. Its bizarre !! Where do you get this stuff from? I am only trying to shake your thinking, because this is not mathematically possible.

Throw out Rev. 11. Try reading the 21 Judgments without Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17 and 18.

Read Rev. 6, 8, 9, 15 and 16. That is the Seals, Trumpets and Vials in Chronological order.

You are taking a Vision about the Two-Witnesses deaths and trying to insert into the timeline of the 21 Judgments when it doesn't belong in the story. Just like Rev. 13 doesn't belong in the story about the Seals from chapter 6, even though its the same timeline.

Rev. could be placed into 5 books:

1.) Rev. 1 2 and 3 is the 7 Churches of Asia Minor. (Book of Churches in Asia Minor)

2.) Rev. 4, 5, 7 and 19 is the Church in Heaven. (Book of the Raptured Church in Heaven)

3.) Rev. 6, 8, 9, 15 and 16 is the 21 Judgments. (Book of Seals, Trumpets, and Vials)

4.) Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17 and 18 are Visions. (Book of Visions that fill in the gaps)

5.) Rev. 20, 21 and 22 is the Hereafter. (Book of the 1000 year reign and New Jerusalem)

Revealing Times · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
You are confusing what I wrote with what iamlamad wrote. He is the one saying the two witnesses are killed at the very end of the 7 years. The math for HIS view works out to the two witnesses being killed on day 2516.5.

My view is completely different. The two witnesses are killed on day 1260.

Yet you have stated they are here for the 7th Vial right? Anyway, I can go back and find it if need be. But the 7th Vial happens on day 2520, but the 2nd Woe happens on 1260. Its mind boggling brother. Lets see, I think you stated the Two-witnesses are at the end, lets revisit some of your quotes Below:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ The great tribulation begins when the AOD is setup on day 1185, then the two witnesses killed day 1260, the rising day 1263.5, then the 7th trumpet sounds, then the war in heaven, then Satan cast down, with the time, times, half times left.

What the bible says is from when the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination of desolation setup there are 1290 days. So when the abomination of desolation is setup 1335 days before Jesus's return, counting forward 1290 days from day 1185 is day 2475, the day that the sixth seal takes place. }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

These statements are just not reality brother. For starters Daniel 12 tells us the AOD is setup at the 1290, so your math doesn't add up. Then you imply there is almost 1260 days from the 7th Trumpet unto the 7th Vial. COME ON, that way out there stuff man.

Douggg said:
Show me in Revelation where you are finding the time, times, half times. I know where it is at, but I want to hear it from you.

Why ask a preacher? Rev. ch. 12, shows that the time, times and half time is 1260 days, which we already know.

Douggg said:
It is not wonders as in miracles. It is wonders as amazing events that the angel was telling Daniel about that were going to happen in the end times.

I know that, and thus Jesus' return. The point you are missing is the very first point the Angel/Jesus made was that the 1260 days of the holy peoples scattering will end when Jesus returns and the Wonders CEASE.....Wonders of the book of Daniel or Revelation as we know it also. Thus the 1290 is days until the end also, as is the 1335. Thus the 1290 comes 30 days before the 1260. Everything is reversed from your thinking. Its not days from the 1260 or Middle of the Week on in every instance. Its EVENTS and a number of days to the end from every event. The 1290 HAS TO TEL US THAT !! If we use common sense. The AOD has to come before the SCATTERING of the holy people. Thus the 1290 comes before the 1260. That is why my brain gets these things, I catch the small clues and BUILD from there. You guys try to build the big picture first.

When we put a puzzle together its one piece at a time, if you try to guess first you will always fail to understand what the puzzle is. Get the small clues and build out. The 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260..........THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260.............THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260.............THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260...........THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260.............THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260 !! You get it? Its a simple clue. When this sinks in, this small but simple clue, you will get it.

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
The events in the chapters from Revelation 6 to Revelation 20 are either in the first half or second half.

It is the events themselves, not what chapters they are presented in, that determines whether they are in the first half or second half..

If only Revelation 12 existed, there would be 1260 days before the war in heaven; and the time, times, half a times after the war in heaven.

The event itself of verse 2, the 42 months is the same 42 months in Revelation 13:5, in the second half.

The event itself of verse 3, the 1260 days is the same 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 before the war in heaven. The 1260 days is the first half.

"The events in the chapters from Revelation 6 to Revelation 20 are either in the first half or second half."
This is a true statement, but it could be so much better! Years ago as I was reading Daniel 9:27 God said to me that I could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in Revelation. I did find it. The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god. The daily sacrifices must stop and the temple cleansed before any more sacrifices can be done.

Therefore, anything after the 7th seal and before the 7th trumpet is in the first half of the week. See how simple this is? In other words, the first six trumpets will come in the first half of the week.

Anything event written after 11:15 will take place in the last half of the week.

"It is the events themselves, not what chapters they are presented in, that determines whether they are in the first half or second half.."

This might be true if we took off all the chapter numbers, mixed them up and then replaced them at random! It is no wonder I disagree with your timing! You don't believe what John wrote! When John wrote, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - you don't believe him! when John wrote of the numbering of the woes, you don't believe him! Did God ever tell you that you would have to rearrange Revelation according to your own reasoning? I doubt that very much.

If only Revelation 12 existed, there would be 1260 days before the war in heaven; and the time, times, half a times after the war in heaven.

No WONDER I disagree with you so much! This is nonsense and shows you don't understand much of what John wrote or how he wrote it. Please, let me assist you.

11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

If you believe that the entire 42 months takes place in this verse, and then verse 3 is 42 months later, you are very very confused!
The START or BEGINNING of the 42 months countdown begins in this verse or at this place in John's narrative.

I could paste every mention of this 3.5 year period of time - all five of them - and ask the same question. And the answer would be the same: the verse of mention is the START of the countdown.

Verse 11:2: | -> -> -> 42 months to the end of the week.
Verse 11:3 | -> -> -> 1260 days count down to the end.
Verse 12:6 | -> -> -> 1260 days count down to the end.
Verse 12:14 | -> -> -> 3.5 years to the end of the week.
Verse 13:5 | -> -> -> 42 months till the beast is captured.

In other words, there are five parallel paths found in Revelation from the midpoint to the end of the week. While the city is being trampled, the two witnesses are testifying, the woman is fleeing and is being supernaturally protected, and the Beast is exercising His authority.

Have you ever seen a 200 meter dash? The start is usually staggered because they begin on the corner and the outside lane is farther around. All five of these countdowns will not begin on the same day. Neither will then end on the same day. But they will be an accurate count.

Next, none of these time periods will be "shortened." what will be shortened is the number of days that the Beast and False Prophet will be allowed to murder the saints.

The TRUTH is, the abomination will take place (marked by the 7th trumpet) , and almost immediately two events will take place: those living in Judea (the "woman") will flee into the wilderness. Next, but at the same time, the war in heaven will take place.

"The event itself of verse 2, the 42 months is the same 42 months in Revelation 13:5, in the second half."

Thank God! FINALLY something that agrees with what is written!

| ............first half........Abomination...........second half........|
| ............first half........7th trumpet ...........second half........|
| ............trumpets.......Abomination............vials.................|
| ....chapters 8-11:15..Abomination....chapters 11:15 - 16 ....|

I cannot think of any other way to show it. You might imagine John and the Holy Spirit mixed up the chronology, but if you do, you will be in error.

iamlamad · Jan 30, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Yet you have stated they are here for the 7th Vial right? Anyway, I can go back and find it if need be. But the 7th Vial happens on day 2520, but the 2nd Woe happens on 1260. Its mind boggling brother. Lets see, I think you stated the Two-witnesses are at the end, lets revisit some of your quotes Below:

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ The great tribulation begins when the AOD is setup on day 1185, then the two witnesses killed day 1260, the rising day 1263.5, then the 7th trumpet sounds, then the war in heaven, then Satan cast down, with the time, times, half times left.

What the bible says is from when the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination of desolation setup there are 1290 days. So when the abomination of desolation is setup 1335 days before Jesus's return, counting forward 1290 days from day 1185 is day 2475, the day that the sixth seal takes place. }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

These statements are just not reality brother. For starters Daniel 12 tells us the AOD is setup at the 1290, so your math doesn't add up. Then you imply there is almost 1260 days from the 7th Trumpet unto the 7th Vial. COME ON, that way out there stuff man.

Why ask a preacher? Rev. ch. 12, shows that the time, times and half time is 1260 days, which we already know.

I know that, and thus Jesus' return. The point you are missing is the very first point the Angel/Jesus made was that the 1260 days of the holy peoples scattering will end when Jesus returns and the Wonders CEASE.....Wonders of the book of Daniel or Revelation as we know it also. Thus the 1290 is days until the end also, as is the 1335. Thus the 1290 comes 30 days before the 1260. Everything is reversed from your thinking. Its not days from the 1260 or Middle of the Week on in every instance. Its EVENTS and a number of days to the end from every event. The 1290 HAS TO TEL US THAT !! If we use common sense. The AOD has to come before the SCATTERING of the holy people. Thus the 1290 comes before the 1260. That is why my brain gets these things, I catch the small clues and BUILD from there. You guys try to build the big picture first.

When we put a puzzle together its one piece at a time, if you try to guess first you will always fail to understand what the puzzle is. Get the small clues and build out. The 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260..........THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260.............THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260.............THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260...........THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260.............THE 1290 HAS TO BE BEFORE THE 1260 !! You get it? Its a simple clue. When this sinks in, this small but simple clue, you will get it.

From this we can tell the writer has a GREAT sense of imagination!

Daniel does NOT NOT NOT say that FROM some point TO another point will be 1290 days. People imagine that is what he wrote, but he did not. The "from" is understood from verse 1.

First Daniel ask how long to the END of the wonders. Verse 1 tells of a time of trouble never seen before. So it is to end of this time of trouble Daniel is asking about. And the answer is, TIME, TIMES, half of time. This is 3 1/2 years. Daniel told is in chapter 9 that some event will stop the daily sacrifices, and that event will divide the week into two halves.

We can see then that in Dan. 12:1 it is at the midpoint of the week. That is the STARTING POINT.

"from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Therefore, "from the time the daily sacrifices shall be taken away" is the MIDPOINT. Always remember, this is the starting point. It is the day that the man of sin enters the most holy place in the temple and the temple is made desolate, and the sacrifices cease.

So Daniel is telling us that TWO events make this starting point: the daily sacrifices cease and the abomination is set up: both happen at the midpoint. then, FROM that time, the midpoint, TO another event, will be 1290 days. We all know that from the midpoint to the end of the week will be 1260 days. So Daniel is adding another 30 days. That is without a doubt the day Jesus returns from the wedding (Rev. 19 return on the white horse.)

Then John adds another 45 days to the 1335 day. What will happen then? I don't know. Perhaps the temple will be cleansed. Perhaps it will be the official start of the Millennial reign. Perhaps it will be the end of the sheep and goat judgment.

Therefore, to say that the 1290 days must come before the 1260 tells us that the writer has a great imagination.

Summary: always remember, the starting point to all these countdowns is the MIDPOINT of the week.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

iamlamad said:
"The events in the chapters from Revelation 6 to Revelation 20 are either in the first half or second half."
This is a true statement, but it could be so much better! Years ago as I was reading Daniel 9:27 God said to me that I could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in Revelation. I did find it. The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is god. The daily sacrifices must stop and the temple cleansed before any more sacrifices can be done.

Well right off the bat, I can tell you that you didn't get it right - and please don't tell me that God got it wrong. You did.

John hears the seventh trumpet sound after being told by the angel about the two witnesses rise - which will be on day 1263.5 after being killed on day 1260 by the beast. The person does not become the beast until he himself recovers from being mortally wounded - killed. And he is not killed, Ezekiel 28:1-10. until after he goes into the temple and claims to be God, the transgression of desolation, 2Thessalonians2:4.

The day when the person commits the TOD cannot be determined. But it has to be before day 1185 AOD.

day 1.........day unknownTOD.....day1185AOD.....1335days...... day 2520 Jesus returns.

acronyms:
TOD - transgression of desolation - 2Thessalonians2:4 act
AOD - abomination of desolation - Revelation 13:14-15 image

Notice that I am putting this together based on the events themselves - not what chapter the events are presented in.

iamlamad said:
Anything event written after 11:15 will take place in the last half of the week.

Not correct. Again, it is not based on which chapter the events are presented. Revelation 12 has events prior to the second half. Prior to the war in heaven when Satan is cast down. AS well as parts of Revelation 17 and 18 contain events that took place back in history. The methodology that you came up with is flawed.

In Revelation 13, the person becomes the beast. Yet in Revelation 11, two chapters before, the two witnesses are battling the beast.

This might be true if we took off all the chapter numbers, mixed them up and then replaced them at random! It is no wonder I disagree with your timing! You don't believe what John wrote!

lamad, you are out of line with that sort of comment.

iamlamad said:
I could paste every mention of this 3.5 year period of time - all five of them - and ask the same question. And the answer would be the same: the verse of mention is the START of the countdown.

Verse 11:2: | -> -> -> 42 months to the end of the week.
Verse 11:3 | -> -> -> 1260 days count down to the end.
Verse 12:6 | -> -> -> 1260 days count down to the end.
Verse 12:14 | -> -> -> 3.5 years to the end of the week.
Verse 13:5 | -> -> -> 42 months till the beast is captured.

You could paste it, but you would be wrong because the bible does not use the terms either 3 1/2 years or 3.5 years. It doesn't for a reason.

iamlamad said:
Next, none of these time periods will be "shortened." what will be shortened is the number of days that the Beast and False Prophet will be allowed to murder the saints.

shortened just means that the length of the great tribulation will be limited - otherwise there would be no flesh to survive it.

I cannot think of any other way to show it. You might imagine John and the Holy Spirit mixed up the chronology, but if you do, you will be in error.

The problem is not with John or the Holy Spirit - but the faulty methodology you came up with a timeline based on what chapter the events are presented in - rather than the events themselves.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Yet you have stated they are here for the 7th Vial right?

No, I have not. The two witnesses will be killed on day 1260. The 7th vial takes place at the very end of the 7 years.

You getting what iamlamad is saying confused as being me saying those things.

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

Revealing Times said:
know that, and thus Jesus' return. The point you are missing is the very first point the Angel/Jesus made was that the 1260 days of the holy peoples scattering will end when Jesus returns and the Wonders CEASE.....Wonders of the book of Daniel or Revelation as we know it also. Thus the 1290 is days until the end also, as is the 1335. Thus the 1290 comes 30 days before the 1260. Everything is reversed from your thinking. Its not days from the 1260 or Middle of the Week on in every instance. Its EVENTS and a number of days to the end from every event. The 1290 HAS TO TEL US THAT !! If we use common sense. The AOD has to come before the SCATTERING of the holy people. Thus the 1290 comes before the 1260. That is why my brain gets these things, I catch the small clues and BUILD from there. You guys try to build the big picture first.

What you are not getting is that there has to be a day on the timeline that causes terror to the wicked men of the earth that Jesus is about to execute Judgement on them.

Otherwise they would not gather their armies as Armageddon to make war on Jesus.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

The 1290 days from the day when the AOD is setup, day 1185, is the day, day 2475 on the timeline, that Jesus appears in heaven, drawing this reaction....

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Douggg · Jan 30, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Why ask a preacher? Rev. ch. 12, shows that the time, times and half time is 1260 days, which we already know.

What Revelation 12 shows is that there are 1260 days before the war in heaven. And a time, times, half times after the war in heaven.

The time, times, half times in Daniel 12:7 matches the time, times, half times in Revelation 12 following the war in heaven.

You guys spend so much time arguing with me because it flies right by you at Mach 2 that (1) the timeframes are expressed differently for a reason, and that (2) the like timeframe expressions go together.

The 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 and 12:6 go together.

The 42 months in Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 13:5 go together.

The time, times, half times in Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14 go together

That's how you can start to piece together the events on a timeline. The worse thing a person can do is start equating the different time expressions as exact equivalents of each other, such as equating the 42 months as being the 1260 days.

BABerean2 · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
How is that not the new coveant in Chrsit as applied to Jeremiah 31?

It is the New Covenant.

And it is the same New Covenant found in Hebrews 8:6-13.

And the same New Covenant specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, all of which kill the Two Peoples of God doctrine.

.

David Kent · Jan 30, 2018

Douggg said:
shortened just means that the length of the great tribulation will be limited - otherwise there would be no flesh to survive it.

Wrong in your analysis but correct in the statement.

The days that would be shortened were the great tribulation in AD 66-70. You are correct that no Jews would be left alive (Apart from the Christians who heeded Christ's command for them to leave the city when the saw the AOD, that is when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies.) had those days not been shortened.

Marilyn C · Jan 30, 2018

Davy said:
God already destroyed the old city of Babylon. You can read about it in the OT prophets. Sadam tried to rebuild it and failed.

The Revelation Babylon is a latter day symbol applied spiritually to Jerusalem the "great city". We were shown this kind of application in Rev.11 about God's two witnesses being killed in Jerusalem:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV

Hi Davy,

I don`t see where God says Babylon = Jerusalem. I see Sodom and Egypt = Jerusalem.

Maybe you don`t realise but the US and the UN are rebuilding Babylon. You can see it on utube. The world is waiting for the fighting to subside and then there will be a tourist rush to see the oldest civilization in the world. A great money making venture. You will see it rise and become very popular.

regards, Marilyn.

Revealing Times · Jan 30, 2018

iamlamad said:
From this we can tell the writer has a GREAT sense of imagination!

Daniel does NOT NOT NOT say that FROM some point TO another point will be 1290 days. People imagine that is what he wrote, but he did not. The "from" is understood from verse 1.

Yes he does, but I wouldn't expect you to see it because from all your other posts I can see you do not understand prophecy or are not called to understanding prophecy, not everybody is. You can call a chicken a cat, but that don't make it a cat.

iamlamad said:
First Daniel ask how long to the END of the wonders. Verse 1 tells of a time of trouble never seen before. So it is to end of this time of trouble Daniel is asking about. And the answer is, TIME, TIMES, half of time. This is 3 1/2 years. Daniel told is in chapter 9 that some event will stop the daily sacrifices, and that event will divide the week into two halves.

No he doesn't, its the Angel or Jesus offering up that nugget in verse 6.

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen (Not Daniel), which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

If you can't understand the KJV you might to to switch to the ESV:

Dan. 12:5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and behold, two others stood, one on this bank of the stream and one on that bank of the stream. 6 And someone said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, “How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?”

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time (1260 Days), and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.

If you can't get the writing of the KJV, like many seemingly can't, you need to switch to another version, this is CLEARLY saying that there will be 1260 days after the holy people are scattered or Israel FLEES JUDEA until all these things are finished.

Hasn't it hit you yet that hes says for a time, times and half time and then John tells us in Revelation chapter 12 that the Woman is protected for a time, times and half a time.

Rev. 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle(God gonna protect her), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (1260 Days), from the face of the serpent.

The Anti-Christ comes forth in the Middle of the Week, at the 1260 day mark and Conquers Jerusalem, thus hes the Beast for 42 Months or 1260 Days, thus the Woman Israel is protected in the Wilderness for a time, times and half time of 1260 days. Its tells you when these Wonders will be up right there in a multi-faceted way.

Again, ANYONE with common sense understand the 1290 can't come after the 1260. Its IMPOSSIBLE.

iamlamad said:
We can see then that in Dan. 12:1 it is at the midpoint of the week. That is the STARTING POINT.

"from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Except 1290 can not be the Midway point of 2520 days now can it? That is my point, it can not be on the other side of the MIDWAY POINT which is 1260 days else the holy people/Israel would have fled before the AOD was set up. And that can not be. I use simple logic, you guys seems to try to create a big picture first.

iamlamad said:
Therefore, "from the time the daily sacrifices shall be taken away" is the MIDPOINT. Always remember, this is the starting point. It is the day that the man of sin enters the most holy place in the temple and the temple is made desolate, and the sacrifices cease.

That is no in the bible, that's just coming from you right?

The Bible in verse 6 says the Holy People are scattered for 1260 days, but it says the Abomination is set up 30 days before they are scattered at 1290. It has to be before because if 1290 is AFTER the 1260 how could the Abomination of Desolation make them FLEE when they have already FLED? Its simple logic. We know Israel is protected for 1260 days, so how are they going to FLEE before the Abomination is set up, which tells us the 1290 is before the 1260.

And there is no SACRIFICE Mentioned in the Hebrew text, its the DAILY...There is no mention of the word Sacrifice, it was added by the English translators. So its the Daily Oblation/Tribute to Jesus or God that is taken away because God sends Elijah back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord to turn Israel back to God. (Malachi 4:5-6)

iamlamad said:
So Daniel is telling us that TWO events make this starting point: the daily sacrifices cease and the abomination is set up: both happen at the midpoint. then, FROM that time, the midpoint, TO another event, will be 1290 days. We all know that from the midpoint to the end of the week will be 1260 days. So Daniel is adding another 30 days. That is without a doubt the day Jesus returns from the wedding (Rev. 19 return on the white horse.)

Then John adds another 45 days to the 1335 day. What will happen then? I don't know. Perhaps the temple will be cleansed. Perhaps it will be the official start of the Millennial reign. Perhaps it will be the end of the sheep and goat judgment.

Therefore, to say that the 1290 days must come before the 1260 tells us that the writer has a great imagination.

Summary: always remember, the starting point to all these countdowns is the MIDPOINT of the week.

That is not what it says at all.

Dan. 12:8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?” 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering (DAILY is all the Hebrew Says) is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days. 13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

From the time the DAILY (OBLATION) is taken away, AND the Abomination of Desolation is set up (these two are CONJOINED)........There SHALL BE 1290 Days !!

Its pretty obvious I am right here when you look at the ESV instead of the KJV which you guys have a trouble seeing as it is of course wrote in an OLD FASHIONED WEIRD WAY !!

When you understand that each number of Days is a set number of days from an EVENT until the Second Coming or the END OF THESE WONDERS, it might come to you.

The 1335 has to be before the 1290 because the 1290 has to be before the 1260.

As per how I get the Oblation........look at Daniel 9:21.

Dan. 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

There is an EVENING and a MORNING Oblation. ts a TRIBUTE unto God, the 23000 is not 2300 DAYS but 2300 EVENINGS & MORNINGS Meaning 1150 Days.

It doesn't have to be a Sacrifice of an Animal.

Marilyn C · Jan 30, 2018

iamlamad said:
Even if a city is burned with fire, what remains will still be there. Everything will not disappear. Rock, masonry, stone will not burn. Jesus will certainly return to Jerusalem, but we don't know it what condition that city will be in. Neither do we know how much of the city will be burned. Perhaps the temple will still be there.

Hi iamlamad,

You may like to read what I wrote to Davy.

regards, Marilyn.

Anti-Christ European Have I found the framework for the Seven Year Covenant?(Agreement)

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