haunted house

[MichaelGWBurke]

I saw something on t.v. the other night about a haunted house here in the state of Maryland.

The story may or may not be true, but the family were interviewed, and they seemed believable.

The daughter said it started when she tried to hang a cross shaped picture frame on the wall, and it kept falling off until it finally broke.

She said the house "didn't want any religious objects in it," there was poltergeist activity, and an unsuccessful attempt at an exorcism by a Roman Catholic priest.

My question is, is any of this possible?

Wouldn't any real demons be too afraid of the cross, and religious objects to touch or move them?

Doesn't the Orthodox faith invest such objects with too much power for demons to mess with them?

Didn't saint Cyprian say you could chase demons away by simply crossing yourself?

And is it true that you can keep them from disturbing you in your sleep by simply making the sign of the cross over your bed, and saying "Heavenly Father, compass us about by the power of Thy Son's precious and life-giving cross"?

Is it as simple as that?

Must these people be lying?

Or could demons actually throw crosses and religious objects around a house the way they say they did?

(And why would God allow that?)

 

[InnerPhyre]

I wouldn't personally get my Theology/Demonology from a T.V. show about ghosts, but that is just me. I have never heard of a demon being able to destroy a cross or an icon.

 

[GregConstantine]

You're in Maryland? Whereabouts?

 

[MichaelGWBurke]

I wouldn't personally get my Theology/Demonology from a T.V. show about ghosts, but that is just me. I have never heard of a demon being able to destroy a cross or an icon.

So it's not possible?

P.S. They didn't say anything was destroyed, and the only thing broken was the glass on a set of picture frames in the shape of a cross.

But they did say that religious objects were moved.

 

[gzt]

Anything is possible. I just find it far more likely that it's a TV show and nothing is really going on. Far more likely. Far, far more likely. And taht's even before considering specifically Orthodox teachings on the cross.

 

[MichaelGWBurke]

Anything is possible. I just find it far more likely that it's a TV show and nothing is really going on. Far more likely. Far, far more likely. And taht's even before considering specifically Orthodox teachings on the cross.

I don't believe anything is possible, and I don't think you do either.

If that were true, we'd have to accept the possibility that Mohamed is a prophet, and that ISIS is doing God's will, and I don't think either of us accept that (even as a possibility.)

And Orthodox teachings on the cross, Icons, religious objects, and hand gestures are precisely what I'm interested in here.

Would the idea that demons can move a cross be against the teachings of the Orthodox Church?

Would the idea that a demon could cause a bad dream, even after you made the sign of the cross over your bed and invoked the Trinity, be contrary to the teachings of the Orthodox Church?

I just find it far more likely that it's a TV show and nothing is really going on. Far more likely.

I'm not interested in what you think is "far more far likely" here, I'm interested in what "is" and "isn't" possible (according to the teachings of The Orthodox Church.)

 

[MichaelGWBurke]

You're in Maryland? Whereabouts?

Cecil County.

 

[Basil the Great]

Well, you both make valid points. I would say that almost anything is possible, though not necessarily likely.

 

[MichaelGWBurke]

Let me put this another way.

If an Orthodox Christian had an unusual and disturbing dream (that seemed like more than a normal nightmare) after he made the sign of the cross over his bed saying "Heavenly Father, compass us about by the power of Thy Son's precious and life-giving cross," would he have to regard it as some kind of warning from God?

Would performing that little ritual at bed time make it impossible for demons to inject anything into his dreams?

 

[prodromos]

Let me put this another way.

If an Orthodox Christian had an unusual and disturbing dream (that seemed like more than a normal nightmare) after he made the sign of the cross over his bed saying "Heavenly Father, compass us about by the power of Thy Son's precious and life-giving cross," would he have to regard it as some kind of warning from God?

Would performing that little ritual at bed time make it impossible for demons to inject anything into his dreams?

If he is otherwise living a sinful and unrepentant life, then he would be providing demons with many other means of entering. If, however, he is striving to live in repentance and partaking of the sacraments, then the demons would have no means of attack other than what God would permit for the perfecting of His saint.

 

[MichaelGWBurke]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "other than what God would permit for the perfecting of His saint"?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "other than what God would permit for the perfecting of His saint"?

sometimes God allows demonic temptations for the holy, lest they become proud

 

[MichaelGWBurke]

sometimes God allows demonic temptations for the holy, lest they become proud

Would demonic temptations include the temptation to despair, to doubt God's mercy, and to just give up?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Would demonic temptations include the temptation to despair, to doubt God's mercy, and to just give up?

they could

 

[prodromos]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "other than what God would permit for the perfecting of His saint"?

One example would be Elder Joseph the Hesychast. God permitted him to struggle for a long time against a demon of sexual immorality. This had the dual purpose of perfecting the elder through his struggles, and of keeping the demon tied up with the elder so that it was unable to trouble anyone else.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Always interesting what I learn here.

I'm glad to know - if I understand you all correctly? - that these prayers, the sign of the cross, and so on are not the kinds of things we should think about as having an almost "magical" protection associated with them? I am getting the sense that, like many other things, they are tools given to us, that require us to use them rightly (as in being repentant and striving to live according to God's commandments, etc.)? Is this correct?

And of course I do already know that God sometimes allows extreme circumstances, with the end that a right response to these circumstances will be for our spiritual benefit.

Are these correct statements, according to the Church?

(Sorry for butting in - I wish to understand as well, and the answer might be helpful to someone else.)

Thank you all!

 

[RileyG]

I can't remember...I think it was the night after someone died...I had a horrible dream, I immediately made the sign of cross upon awakening, and prayed....

According to Orthodox beliefs, can the demons damage someone when they are sleeping?

 

[GregConstantine]

I'm in Baltimore. You should come and visit Holy Cross Antiochian Orthodox Church in Linthicum if you haven't already. There is an Orthodox parish in Bel Air too which will be closer to you. I can't remember the name of it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Always interesting what I learn here.

I'm glad to know - if I understand you all correctly? - that these prayers, the sign of the cross, and so on are not the kinds of things we should think about as having an almost "magical" protection associated with them? I am getting the sense that, like many other things, they are tools given to us, that require us to use them rightly (as in being repentant and striving to live according to God's commandments, etc.)? Is this correct?

And of course I do already know that God sometimes allows extreme circumstances, with the end that a right response to these circumstances will be for our spiritual benefit.

Are these correct statements, according to the Church?

(Sorry for butting in - I wish to understand as well, and the answer might be helpful to someone else.)

Thank you all!

yep, pretty much. as a scarier example, if God sees that someone will only be repentant if they are possessed by a demon, then all the Crosses in the world won't cast the demon out. we must always remember that it is according to His will, which is often not ours.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I can't remember...I think it was the night after someone died...I had a horrible dream, I immediately made the sign of cross upon awakening, and prayed....

According to Orthodox beliefs, can the demons damage someone when they are sleeping?

they can I think, depending on that person's condition.