Hate Crimes Bill

ender2155

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If my pastor preached from those portions of the Bible condemning Sodomy, male prostitutes, or homosexuals, would that be a "hate crime"?


No, it would, not should not, be considered a hate crime. However, the Bible has nothing to say about sodomy (a term based incorrectly on the story of Sodom, as any real pastor should admit) or homosexuality as a bad thing. What is brought up is misinterpreted.
 
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LightHorseman

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This seems to be a pretty emotional issue, especially amng Conservatives. But, it seems that the emotionalism on both sides of issues such as these sometimes creates a distorted picture of what is really going on and makes it difficult to have a meaningful discussion. So, I am wondering what other moderates think of the "hate crimes bill" that passed the House today. Some Conservatives seem to think that it is the death knell of free speech in America. I haven't heard much from Liberals, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are some who hope it will be the death knell of free speech.

Having read it, I don't see anything to be all that concerned about here, but I am interested in what other moderates think of this.
For those of us not in the US, maybe a quick synopsis of what was actually passed would be helpful?
 
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KM Richards

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That seems to be a reasoned analysis. But the "sky is falling" people are not responding to rational things.

Apparently you haven't studied the Bible concerning end time events...

Might want to look up where Jesus said in the end times they will say "Peace, Peace"...but there won't be any peace!




For those of us not in the US, maybe a quick synopsis of what was actually passed would be helpful?

Same junk they got going on in Europe...socialism!




If my pastor preached from those portions of the Bible condemning Sodomy, male prostitutes, or homosexuals, would that be a "hate crime"?

Yes...there have already been instances of ministers being arrested for publically saying what God said about being gay



No, it would, not should not, be considered a hate crime. However, the Bible has nothing to say about sodomy (a term based incorrectly on the story of Sodom, as any real pastor should admit) or homosexuality as a bad thing. What is brought up is misinterpreted.

Ah, the progressives have gotten into your head and have taught you to believe them before God's Word...that's too bad for you...



Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Genesis 19 Read this chapter

Romans 1:18-32
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21)Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22)Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23)And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24)Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25)Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26)For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27)And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28)And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29)Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30)Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31)Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32)Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Jude 1:
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Those who advocate homosexuality use passages such as 2 Samuel 1:26 to support their position. It states that David and Jonathan had a relationship that surpassed the love of women. This is not referring to sexual love, however, but to a special covenant they had which exceeded or was different from any kind of sexual relationship. David and Jonathan would have been stoned under Levitical law had they been homosexuals (Lev. 18:22; 20:13).

God also condemns homosexuality in Genesis 19. Some pro-homosexuals respond that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, but rape. However, the Sodomites did not initially force Lot's male guests to have sex with them, but just by them mentioning it, Lot urged them not to do such a "wicked" thing (19:4-8). Other ancient sources such as Josephus and the New Testament (Jude 7) confirm that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality.

Additionally, Romans 1:21-32 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 clearly condemn lesbianism and homosexuality (cf., 1 Tim. 1:9,10). Homosexual advocates reply that Romans 1 refers only to phallic cults who committed idolatry. Along with 1 Corinthians 6, they claim that God is simply condemning excessive and promiscuous sex, not a dedicated relationship between two homosexuals.


Oh, and one last thing..."phobia" means scared of, so please come up with a word that means "disgusted and sick in the stomach by" instead of homie phobia which is an incorrect use of the english language...

It's always very telling when people start calling names and trying to use fear tactics against those that disagree with them
 
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psalms 91

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The bible teachs hate the sin, love the sinner. So if homosexuality is preached against as it should be then would that make the pastor and the church liable? These are some of the concerns with this lef=gislation, that they are trying to silence those of us who still stand up for what the bible says and dont whitewash it.
 
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ziggy29

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The bible teachs hate the sin, love the sinner. So if homosexuality is preached against as it should be then would that make the pastor and the church liable? These are some of the concerns with this lef=gislation, that they are trying to silence those of us who still stand up for what the bible says and dont whitewash it.
I think more to the point about homosexuality is that the message and teachings of Christ are pretty clear with respect to "repealing" the Levitical laws concerning how mankind is to respond to those engaging in it. You don't "love the sinner" in any way by sentencing them to death. You love them by supporting them in changing their path in life and begin their walk with Jesus.

Does that mean mankind should simply "accept" homosexuality in its institutions, particularly those of Christian faith? No, I don't think so. But Jesus clearly calls on us to love them as anyone else in God's kingdom. And some of the comments against homosexuality seem to go beyond simply condemning it as sin and arguing against concepts like gay clergy, and show what I think is a very un-Christlike condemnation of the person, a disgust, dare I even say a "hatred," not just of the act itself but those participating in it.

Now as a member of a rural and rather conservative ELCA congregation I think the more liberal, city-dominated CWA got it wrong on the practicing homosexual clergy concept last year. Having said that, I think a lot of so-called Christians also getting it wrong in terms of their judgment and treatment of homosexuals -- in other words, hating the sin *and* the sinner. Many of the things I hear from some people who consider themselves good Christians are violating quite a few of the messages Jesus left for us about judging others, about shunning those who need to find Christ the most, about violating the so-called "Greatest Commandment" as told in Mark 12:28-31 and Luke 10:27-28.

I don't believe preaching that homosexuality is a sin is a hate crime; I believe if it were said in conjunction with comments to suggest that it is our place to judge and punish sinners instead of God's place, then the ground gets shakier. And if you went the full-on Fred Phelps route, yes, this is hate speech and if someone acted on his un-Christian bile in a way that criminally victimized a homosexual, they could and should be held legally and perhaps criminally responsible. How someone who claims to be Christian can reconcile such attitudes and behaviors with the passages I referenced above is simply beyond me.

If one teaches the true message of Christ -- separating sin from sinner and seeing the latter as one who needs to find redemption in Christ on earth and to Heaven, not as someone to be stoned to death -- there is no hate of the person involved. None at all.
 
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