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Hashin it out

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Vambram

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Just let me know where I'm not conservative.
It really does appear as if your theology is not conservative theology, and no, I am not talking about in relation to secular politics, either.
 
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Time2BCounted

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Now he comes even into our nondebate area, flagrantly not respecting our home here, trying to derail us off into other debates and division, not allowing for a civil discussion CONCERNING THE TOPIC (caps emphesis only)

Its not hard at all to see whats going on here, and if one has no respect for his own home and forum rules, let alone the standards we stand for, i frankly quesiton their motives for joining.

If you do not believe as we do SA, why do you assume a role as one of us?
 
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Vambram

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We believe that this Trinity is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and that they are ONE God in 3 Persons.
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from His home in heaven above, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

Mr SpiritualAntiseptic has said that he does not agree with this above definiton and statement of faith concerning the Lord Jesus Christ by focusing on a couple of small words and points of Semantics. Therefore, I ask you sir, please honestly point out what parts of this draft and statement of faith do you disagree with. Thank you.

:groupray:
 
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Time2BCounted

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Uhm, no. I agree with the Nicene Creed. I agree with every part you quoted.

What I don't agree is the Reformed doctrines infused into the commentaries.
Youre the only one that doesnt agree thus far, and its not up for debate in this forum, we are ALL held by this standard rule, so please respectfully cease
 
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Nadiine

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This is my home.

You all came out in arms against me and when I asked you for proof of your attacks, you had the nerve to accuse me of derailment.

Either prove I'm not a conservative or drop it already.
Actually, your posts go towards proving this - when you seem to find little to no agreement with those of the conservative bent...
You can claim anything you want, but your posts show a pattern of not being in agreement with most conservatives who are regularly posting.
Here's one example:
http://foru.ms/t6205872

and then this:
Originally Posted by BORNAGAIN2
I read the rules and it seemed it was ok to ask a question but if not, I apologize, so please just delete this thread
Can a person from any denomination join this group if they believe your statement or certain denominations?

You just have to agree in principle with definition of conservative Christianity- a definition which is so vague it is virtually meaningless. You just have to be a Christian against homosexual acts and abortion basically


http://foru.ms/showpost.php?p=39455897&postcount=49

The issue is, CC's get along & have a tight unity together with alot of agreement;- there seems to be continual division & 'issues' going on in other places and that is causing several to question what's up - including myself.
You can believe what's on the CC definition page but it's become a question of unity as I see this. When things turn into a pattern of strife & disagreements, people start questioning things. (and rightly so). Is it personal? nope.
& that's all I'll say for now.
 
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MrJim

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btw- feel free to tell me where I'm not conservative.

Yeah, I'd like to see the list too.

While SA does ask the hard questions, he is Catholic, and as I've said elsewhere, these denom lines are going to show up in doctrinal conversations.

I tend to stay out of these frays because as a somewhat rabid "converted Calvinist now former Calvinist" I am always suspicious of Reformed theology (funny what Catholics & Anabaptist-ish folks have in common ;) ), yet try to keep separated Christians & their doctrines to a minor degree for the sake of fellowship. Yet what one considers as "minor doctrine" another considers major, and when ya start stepping into another's area major trouble starts.

I consider SA to be something of a fundamentalist~Roman Catholic Fundamentalist that is~and since the RCC (Church/Magisterium) takes all doctrine as serious this should be an expected and respected response from one that is a part of the Catholic Church.

If this can't be understood, then maybe some of us "Conservative" Christians should be in the Fundamentalist Christian Forum instead:scratch:

He is different than having a liberal come in and disrupting, for while I disagree with his take on anabaptist history, I really can't point to anything he's said that isn't conservative (and it's conservative from a conservative Catholic POV), though admittedly I've always looked for that loophole :)sorry: only 'cause I always want everyone to agree with me:sorry: ).

So it's incumbent upon the accusers to produce his liberal/nonconservative statements :)scratch: maybe I missed something)

Jim
 
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Melethiel

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Alright, since I AM a member of this forum:
Yet, there is some variance amongst Christians in lesser matters which do not effect our salvation.
Bolded part needs to go, since many Christians do believe that some of those things affect our salvation.

And I still want the parts regarding the inspiration of Scripture to be made distinct from the NC Creed, and not put above belief in God in terms of primacy.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I think I agree that the commentary in the definition needs to be removed. I like having the Nicene Creed there with the scriptural backups, and really, to me, that seems like all we need. If someone disagrees with those tenants, then they can take it up with the bible rather than the person writing the definition.

Maybe I just haven't had my morning coffee, but I am not really seeing any reformed ideas in the definition itself, but I'm seeing them in the commentaries, such as the paragraph about baptism, and perhaps especially the last paragraph. That last paragraph makes it seems like works salvation, almost. We realize that a faith without works or love is a dead faith (and yes, I added love in there on my own) but that's not to say that those MUST be present - it's to say that those are a FRUIT of the faith. They come naturally.

Other than that, I guess it's okay for me.
 
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Nadiine

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I think I agree that the commentary in the definition needs to be removed. I like having the Nicene Creed there with the scriptural backups, and really, to me, that seems like all we need. If someone disagrees with those tenants, then they can take it up with the bible rather than the person writing the definition.

Maybe I just haven't had my morning coffee, but I am not really seeing any reformed ideas in the definition itself, but I'm seeing them in the commentaries, such as the paragraph about baptism, and perhaps especially the last paragraph. That last paragraph makes it seems like works salvation, almost. We realize that a faith without works or love is a dead faith (and yes, I added love in there on my own) but that's not to say that those MUST be present - it's to say that those are a FRUIT of the faith. They come naturally.

Other than that, I guess it's okay for me.
The only reason I'd be inclined to agree with this is if Erwin wants to allow 2 opposing camps to be called the same terms.
That's essentially what's going on. The deeper you get into essentials, people start dropping off like flies as you dig into scripture truths.

Oh sure, they can accept "some jesus that preached love"... but start defining who that God is, and watch the fur fly & divisions start!
Honestly, I have no unity with quite a few who proclaim God's name here - which is why I tucked myself into this conservative section that isn't afraid to accept scripture's plain teachings.
 
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Miracle Storm

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Alright, since I AM a member of this forum:

Bolded part needs to go, since many Christians do believe that some of those things affect our salvation.

And I still want the parts regarding the inspiration of Scripture to be made distinct from the NC Creed, and not put above belief in God in terms of primacy.

Definition of a Christian

Foru.ms is a very socially stimulating Christian based online community that is open to everyone, Christian or Nonchristian alike.
The foundations of ForU.ms are based on Christian principles. Nearly every major church or denomination of Christianity is represented here. As an outreach to the world, the hurting, the lonely, those in need, ALL who are christian or nonchristian are welcome here for stimulating fellowship and discussion.
For the purposes of clarifying just what "Christianity" is, Foru.ms uses the following definition of "Christian".

1. Christian

A Christian, simply put, is a disciple of Jesus Christ:
Acts 11:26 (NIV) "The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
What is a disciple? One who believes and adheres to and follows a particular way or belief. Christianity has historicly and biblically worshiped Jesus as savior of mankind and the Lord God, God being a Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which are one.

To become a Christian, a person should refer to the following Scripture (for more details click here):
John 3:16 (NIV) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son (Jesus), that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Romans 10:9-13 (NIV) "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.""

Acts 2:38 (NIV) "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."


Basic Christian Belief
There are many denominations involved together in outreach here at ForU.ms. Because of this you can expect varying opinions on what some refer to as 'nonessentials', but as a whole the Christian belief does believe, adhere to, and follow some beliefs that are absolutely essential. For instance most would agree that even if only for obedience, those who are saved should also be baptized. On the other hand what most would say is less essential is the method of baptism.
The following are the some of the core essential beliefs of Christianity...

We believe (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15) in the inspiration of the bible and recognize it is the infallable Word of God as it was penned in the original manuscripts.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
We also believe in:
one God. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
We believe that this God is a trinity
We believe that this Trinity is made up of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and that they are ONE God in 3 Persons.
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from His home in heaven above, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)
In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)
Christians acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
Christians look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)
Christians also acknowledge from the Holy Scriptures, that the Apostle Thomas declared Jesus to be God, the bible refers to God as the savior of the world in many places.

In short, Christianity teaches that we have all sinned. We have all fallen short of the glory and righteousness of God. We are told that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus the Christ or Messiah. We believe that God loved us so much, that He gave His Son, His Son came willingly and chose to die for our sins, paying the price for our sins, so that we can escape death and hell, and have eternal life.
We are told in the book of Acts that GOD bought the church with His own blood. From the time of Thomas the apostle to now, worshipers of God in the Christian faith recognize and worship Jesus as God.


Yet, there is some variance amongst Christians in lesser matters which do not effect our salvation.
* Some, but not all add the filioque
* Some, but not all adhere to Baptism for the remission of sins.
* Some, but not all, believe Christ will reign for a literal 1000 years ending before the final judgment.
* Some, but not all will not ascribe to creeds, yet their beliefs are in many cases summarized by the Nicene Creed, but out of deference to Sola Scriptura, they will not agree to any creed created by man, However, these still represent the basic major core beliefs of those who subscribe to no creed.


Lastly and most importantly:

Christianity teaches that without love, we cannot be saved. If we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven. We should forgive men their trespasses against as in the same way we desire God have mercy on US. A follower of Christ doesnt doubt His word in anything, and Jesus said "Love thy neighbor as thyself". To clarify also, it should also be added here that Christians firmly believe in meekness, but not weakness. Boldness and truth do not equal lack of love, however a true christian would feed, and clothe and shelter his enemy, showing genuine compassion, in acts of nobility and kindness and love. Our prayer would be that you too believed for today is the day of salvation, and no one is guaranteed a tomorrow.
Hey Mel.

What if that bolded blue portion was changed to something like
"Yet, there are some variance amongst Christians in matters whom some believe may or may not effect our Salvation."

If not, what would you suggest?

Let me see if I understand the rest of what you are saying...You would like to see the Nicene Creed first and any commentary after right?
Do you think you could reorganize what is already there so we can get a picture of what your saying?
 
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Miracle Storm

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Actually, your posts go towards proving this - when you seem to find little to no agreement with those of the conservative bent...
You can claim anything you want, but your posts show a pattern of not being in agreement with most conservatives who are regularly posting.
Here's one example:
http://foru.ms/t6205872
That report is pretty self explanatory. . .
 
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Nadiine

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Yet, there is some variance amongst Christians in lesser matters which do not effect our salvation. Melethiel: Bolded part needs to go, since many Christians do believe that some of those things affect our salvation.

For people who claim "UNITY" in "Christ" (who we can't seem to identify either for all intents and purposes of this forum) - from the outside looking in as if I were an unsaved person, this religion looks like the most divided, unagreeable one that I've EVER seen in my life.

I think Islam has more agreement within it.
But then, it doesn't shock me that the true God would be so misrepresented and hijacked as a faith by many - God told us this would come in the end times, false teachers would abound. here we are.
 
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