Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

[throughfiierytrial]

Its not a quotation of Jesus. Its John describing his vision.

Neither John was an astronomer. It would also be a hard task to prove that Revelation is about physical universe and not about spiritual realms and symbolism.

You are mincing thoughts here...again, what is your view on inspiration of Scripture?
Matthew 24:29...another citation of Jesus' words.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Here's an article that should interest you. The writer says that there are four possible answers. I would say to add at least one more, that being that we just do not know what Jesus meant. See what you think.

Albion, did you mean to add the name of url of the article?

 

[Rebemk80]

I definitely believe that Christ will come back on judgement day. We will know when Judgement day is near when the four horsemen and the things from the book of revelation happen.

 

[mlepfitjw]

@eleos1954 @Victor in Christ @Albion @Jesus is YHWH @solid_core @Running2win @Maria Billingsley @throughfireytrial @JacksBratt @Cis.jd

I’m not here to debate if believe YeshuaChrist returned or not. I believe everything Yeshua Christ told the apostles and what they told the people happened and everything is over now.

This is my final question to all posters who have read and commented. God bless all of your and your families and thank you for your participation.

My question would be,

if the Apostles wrote to the people in the day be sending out the letters we have which indicates that even Paul wrote to the elected exiles forknown by God in that day in 1 Peter 1:1-3.

What’s the point in trusting the Bible of the Apostles were lying about the second coming to the people of that time?

This one of the reasons why the stated questions about the Apostles were mentioned.

Just thinking critically about what you are reading is important for anyone person who enjoys reading.

Another question that comes to my mind is this. Is Yeshua with you now? If your answer is yes. What are we waiting on if we are able to experience Him now in our life? How is Yeshua with you if you answer yes?

Thank you to all who have posted on here and placing your views and opinions out there for us all to see

 

[Cis.jd]

You too are discounting the worthiness of and inspiration by our very God of the Holy Scriptures.

I'm actually not. I take in regards all possibilities, the apostles not knowing exactly when Jesus would return and thinking he would in their lifetime poses no threat to the Word of God. Thinking such is what is discounting the worthiness of our God of the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I see only three logical possibilities:

a) the promise given in the New Testament was changed after the New Testament was written
b) the promise failed
c) the promise was fulfilled even though we do not have historical records of its fulfillment (probably because the prepared members of the church were taken and the rest of people did not understand what happened or died in the tribulation)

God is not the author of confusion. The first century Christians were not led into confusion by the Apostles. We should always consider those who received the message first.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth made it clear that some will be alive during the "end of the age". That end was fulfilled in 70AD. He can and will come back again for His Bride.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Here's an article that should interest you. The writer says that there are four possible answers. I would say to add at least one more, that being that we just do not know what Jesus meant. See what you think.

Albion,
I want to express my view, my faith more accurately...if I was not clear, that is.
Since Jesus says in Matthew 24...
“Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken."

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

These are not only signs of a dramatic, unmistakable nature, but they are followed IMMEDIATELY by Christ's return. Neither has happened. Also, Jesus states that this generation will not pass away until ALL these things have happened. I feel therefore that one must conclude that this generation is referring to all those post Christ. I see no other way without saying Scripture is in error...a notion which I do not even entertain.
I believe there are other passages which refer to generation which fits this sort of definition...a larger group of generations...I no longer know for certain, but maybe there are other posters who are aware of it or them???

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I'm actually not. I take in regards all possibilities, the apostles not knowing exactly when Jesus would return and thinking he would in their lifetime poses no threat to the Word of God. Thinking such is what is discounting the worthiness of our God of the Holy Scriptures.

Scripture is not man's speech/message it is God's.

 

[Albion]

Albion, did you mean to add the name of url of the article?

I'm glad you mentioned that. I have twice added the link, checked to see that it showed on the screen, and then found in both cases that it disappeared later. I cannot explain this. However, I may be able to recapture it.
.............................................................................................................
Edit: Okay, here it is:

Did Jesus Wrongly Predict a First Century Return in Matthew 24:34?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I'm glad you mentioned that. I have twice added the link, checked to see that it showed on the screen, and then found in both cases that it disappeared later. I cannot explain this. However, I may be able to recapture it.

Oh dear!! : )

 

[Albion]

Oh dear!! : )

Okay. Found it.
Did Jesus Wrongly Predict a First Century Return in Matthew 24:34?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

@eleos1954 @Victor in Christ @Albion @Jesus is YHWH @solid_core @Running2win @Maria Billingsley @throughfireytrial @JacksBratt @Cis.jd

I’m not here to debate if believe YeshuaChrist returned or not. I believe everything Yeshua Christ told the apostles and what they told the people happened and everything is over now.

This is my final question to all posters who have read and commented. God bless all of your and your families and thank you for your participation.

My question would be,

if the Apostles wrote to the people in the day be sending out the letters we have which indicates that even Paul wrote to the elected exiles forknown by God in that day in 1 Peter 1:1-3.

What’s the point in trusting the Bible of the Apostles were lying about the second coming to the people of that time?

This one of the reasons why the stated questions about the Apostles were mentioned.

Just thinking critically about what you are reading is important for anyone person who enjoys reading.

Another question that comes to my mind is this. Is Yeshua with you now? If your answer is yes. What are we waiting on if we are able to experience Him now in our life? How is Yeshua with you if you answer yes?

Thank you to all who have posted on here and placing your views and opinions out there for us all to see

 

[throughfiierytrial]

@eleos1954 @Victor in Christ @Albion @Jesus is YHWH @solid_core @Running2win @Maria Billingsley @throughfireytrial @JacksBratt @Cis.jd

I’m not here to debate if believe YeshuaChrist returned or not. I believe everything Yeshua Christ told the apostles and what they told the people happened and everything is over now.

This is my final question to all posters who have read and commented. God bless all of your and your families and thank you for your participation.

My question would be,

if the Apostles wrote to the people in the day be sending out the letters we have which indicates that even Paul wrote to the elected exiles forknown by God in that day in 1 Peter 1:1-3.

What’s the point in trusting the Bible of the Apostles were lying about the second coming to the people of that time?

This one of the reasons why the stated questions about the Apostles were mentioned.

Just thinking critically about what you are reading is important for anyone person who enjoys reading.

Another question that comes to my mind is this. Is Yeshua with you now? If your answer is yes. What are we waiting on if we are able to experience Him now in our life? How is Yeshua with you if you answer yes?

Thank you to all who have posted on here and placing your views and opinions out there for us all to see

I do not give any credence to the idea you put forth of the Apostles lying to the people. That would make God's Word a lie as well wouldn't it? Some folks don't understand God's Word at first glance and go away from it/go astray and name it a lie or riddled with mistakes. That simply is not the case.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Okay. Found it.
Did Jesus Wrongly Predict a First Century Return in Matthew 24:34?

Thanks! Sorry for the trouble.
Taking a break and will check out the article a bit later then.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

I'm actually not. I take in regards all possibilities, the apostles not knowing exactly when Jesus would return and thinking he would in their lifetime poses no threat to the Word of God. Thinking such is what is discounting the worthiness of our God of the Holy Scriptures.

The Words written/penned by the Apostles and Evangelists in the Bible are not of their own reasoning except in a couple minor passages where Paul specifically states it is his own reasoning and not the Lord's. All Scripture is God-breathed...II Timothy 3:16...and see II Peter 1:20-21...
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Now be very honest with yourself, are you understanding this passage and do you see the contradiction in your answer with these passages? Be willing and able to correct yourself.

 

[Scott Husted]

Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.


If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?


If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?
​

I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.


James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?


Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:


37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”[h] Who will come?


1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).


18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)


28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.


1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.


1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:


1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?


1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)


Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.




Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.


Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?

I would take away from all this that they were learning as they were being taught of God no different than the rest of us.

 

[Cis.jd]

The Words written/penned by the Apostles and Evangelists in the Bible are not of their own reasoning except in a couple minor passages where Paul specifically states it is his own reasoning and not the Lord's. All Scripture is God-breathed...II Timothy 3:16...and see II Peter 1:20-21...
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Now be very honest with yourself, are you understanding this passage and do you see the contradiction in your answer with these passages? Be willing and able to correct yourself.

What you are stating is your belief but it's not fully theologically true. Jesus himself, during his state in hypostatic union even said "only the Father knows". So regardless of you wanting to believe that the apostles had none of their views, the Bible made it clear that no man would ever know so by that any form of talks about the end of days; and how much it sounded as if they where speaking of their actual audience during that specific time; the apostles assuming Jesus' return to be with in their time frame can be considered. And it's not a problem.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Okay. Found it.
Did Jesus Wrongly Predict a First Century Return in Matthew 24:34?

I found and printed some of the parts of this article which I believe to have some validity...some views I have discounted due to what I believe are driven by erroneous end time views. But I will scan them as time permits. I do see that CS Lewis is a disappointment to me...so sad! I think along the lines of what Jerome states...this generation is all mankind...which is a revisement of what I have stated as my view in this forum or thread. It makes sense along with a few other passages I think of and can go into that later perhaps.
Still need to do more reading of this article, however.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[throughfiierytrial]

What you are stating is your belief but it's not fully theologically true. Jesus himself, during his state in hypostatic union even said "only the Father knows". So regardless of you wanting to believe that the apostles had none of their views, the Bible made it clear that no man would ever know so by that any form of talks about the end of days; and how much it sounded as if they where speaking of their actual audience during that specific time; the apostles assuming Jesus' return to be with in their time frame can be considered. And it's not a problem.

You simply cannot reconcile your views with the two passages I cited. God, the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible and the Bible is the Word and the Word is Jesus. God does not err. The Peter passages says above all you must understand that it was not of human will (and thus associated errors.)

 

[throughfiierytrial]

What you are stating is your belief but it's not fully theologically true. Jesus himself, during his state in hypostatic union even said "only the Father knows". So regardless of you wanting to believe that the apostles had none of their views, the Bible made it clear that no man would ever know so by that any form of talks about the end of days; and how much it sounded as if they where speaking of their actual audience during that specific time; the apostles assuming Jesus' return to be with in their time frame can be considered. And it's not a problem.

No, I am not stating my view; I am citing God's view via citing passages.