Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

mlepfitjw

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Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.


If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?


If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?




I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.


James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?


Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:


37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
[h] Who will come?


1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).


18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)


28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.


1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.


1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:


1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?


1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)


Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.




Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.


Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?
 

eleos1954

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Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.


If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?


If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?




I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.


James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?


Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:


37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
[h] Who will come?


1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).


18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)


28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.


1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.


1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:


1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?


1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)


Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.




Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.


Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?

No ... he has not yet returned.

Jesus said ...

Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

How quick is quickly?

2nd Peter 3:8
English Standard Version
But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

That being the case ... it's only been a few years in the eyes of the Lord.

According to His Word ... there are yet future prophesied events that need to take place ... ie not being able to buy or sell ... onset of the anti-christ.

When He does return ... it's going to be a powerful and noisy event.

1st Thessalonians 4:13-18

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

We don't know the day or time .... neither did they.

We patiently wait ;o)
 
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mlepfitjw

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@eleos1954, there is just one simple thing that crosses my mind when you share the verses you are sharing.

When you shared verses from Peter, the reminder of who Peter was writing to enters my mind, and we can see who He was writing to in the first letter he had sent out. Which had been people who were God's elect, and they were exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galtia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, which is clearly seen from 1 Peter 1:1-2.

When you are sharing scriptures from Thessalonians the same method is applied who is Paul writing to? It's clear from 1 Thessalonians 1:1-3, He was writing to the church of Thessalonians.

When you are sharing scriptures from the Revelation, specifically 22 : that can be easily be applied to death, or how Yeshua quickly comes as our mediator, rescue, comforter.

Either way, aside from that point, still the remembrance of who was written to comes to mind, and it is clear in Revelation. Which mentions that it's a revelation of Yeshua Christ, which was made know to John, about showing what was going to happen soon and to show the servants of God the things that must soon take place.

The revelation had been written to the seven churches in the province of Asia. No one else.

So I believe it's a healthy reminder for all people who read the bible to consider and not to take away from what was first written.

Which is well informative to who is the audience is, because it can keep us from making false claims for our usage of the bible and claim scriptures out of context that were for a specific people group at that time, and not us today.

Although the counter-argument is that the bible still applies today, or that we must do this or must do that.

And I'm not trying to say the bible is useless or anything if anyone thinks so, because the Holy Bible is very helpful to anyone who decides to learn about God, or the Lord Yeshua Christ especially if they can get past their own flesh, and try to learn by the Spirit that is God given.

Thank you for your post.
 
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eleos1954

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@eleos1954, there is just one simple thing that crosses my mind when you share the verses you are sharing.

When you shared verses from Peter, the reminder of who Peter was writing to enters my mind, and we can see who He was writing to in the first letter he had sent out. Which had been people who were God's elect, and they were exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galtia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, which is clearly seen from 1 Peter 1:1-2.

When you are sharing scriptures from Thessalonians the same method is applied who is Paul writing to? It's clear from 1 Thessalonians 1:1-3, He was writing to the church of Thessalonians.

When you are sharing scriptures from the Revelation, specifically 22 : that can be easily be applied to death, or how Yeshua quickly comes as our mediator, rescue, comforter.

Either way, aside from that point, still the remembrance of who was written to comes to mind, and it is clear in Revelation. Which mentions that it's a revelation of Yeshua Christ, which was made know to John, about showing what was going to happen soon and to show the servants of God the things that must soon take place.

The revelation had been written to the seven churches in the province of Asia. No one else.

So I believe it's a healthy reminder for all people who read the bible to consider and not to take away from what was first written.

Which is well informative to who is the audience is, because it can keep us from making false claims for our usage of the bible and claim scriptures out of context that were for a specific people group at that time, and not us today.

Although the counter-argument is that the bible still applies today, or that we must do this or must do that.

And I'm not trying to say the bible is useless or anything if anyone thinks so, because the Holy Bible is very helpful to anyone who decides to learn about God, or the Lord Yeshua Christ especially if they can get past their own flesh, and try to learn by the Spirit that is God given.

Thank you for your post.

No offense ... but if one takes only that approach ... then the symbolic meanings and many prophetic truths are lost or not recognized.

Is your approach then ... none of the bible is applicable to christians today and His word is purely historical in nature and only applicable to the people of the time and only to the people who were being talked to at the time ... and is to only give us a basic idea about God?
 
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mmksparbud

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Do you trust what the Apostles said about Yeshua Christ return?

The apostles, fully expected, and taught and encouraged, believers in their day to believe that Yeshua Christ was coming back to them then, on his way, that it was gonna happen soon, and quickly.

If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.


If the Apostles where wrong and they misunderstood Yeshua Christ, should we trust anything that they said?


If Yeshua Christ Apostles where wrong about when they said He would return, How can we trust anything about the bible has said?




I'm gonna share some scripture about where it talks about the Lord's coming back then in their day whom were being wrote to, it is up to your own decision to either accept all this information as true or false.


James 5:7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand (near). 9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[a] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! Who is the Judge?


Hebrews (Written to Jewish Converts) 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (The same Day that Yeshua Christ is talking about Matthew 24)
26 For if we sin (Deny the Faith/stop having faith in Christ) willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (27: Is talking about the coming judgement for those who leave the faith or just deny it, as well as the same day that Yeshua Christ is talking about in Matthew 24)


35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:


37 “For yet a little while,
And He[f] who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the[g] just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
[h] Who will come?


1 John 2:17-18
17 And the world (Age) passeth away (all the old covenant, jewish temple, geneologies), and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever (To believe on the Son of God - Lord Yeshua Christ is the will of God).


18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (The Last time of the standing Jewish Temple / Old Covneant/ geneologies the Age was going to end)


28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we (they) may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.


1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we (they) shall be like him; for we (they) shall see him as he is.


1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall-(will soon short period of time) be revealed:


1 Peter 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd (Yeshua's return) shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


1 Peter 4:5 5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. Who is coming to Judge?


1 Peter 4: 7 But the end (End of the Jewish temple, covenant, geneologies) of all things is at hand (near): be ye (them) therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


Luke 21:22 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (The End of Jeruslem / The end of the Age of those days)


Romans 8: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall-(short period of time) be revealed in us.




Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.


12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand (near/judgement day): let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.


2 Timothy 4:6 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand (paul's death was near at hand).

Anything has to with at it's at hand deals with being near. It's like if you have your phone near you, it's at hand and ready to be grabbed. Or if your reading glasses are right near-by and you grab them, they are at hand.


Is there any place in the bible where you can find the phrase 'and this is also for them at a later time, or in the future'?

Do you think any of this would have been true for them back then?

Or do you think that Yeshua Christ will still come to us now or was it to them then?


This is what happens at His coming:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Mat_24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So you think all this has happened?
 
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mlepfitjw

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No offense ... but if one takes only that approach ... then the symbolic meanings and many prophetic truths are lost or not recognized.

Is your approach then ... none of the bible is applicable to christians today and His word is purely historical in nature and only applicable to the people of the time and only to the people who were being talked to at the time ... and is to only give us a basic idea about God?

Hi again, Eleos1954.

How can/are prophetic truths be lost or recognized if the people that the truths are being written to are a group of people that are mention in just about every book in its introduction, that is written in the bible stating who it is being written to?

It doesn't matter to me if someone doesn't agree with me or not, because it is my own choice to believe scriptures how they are presented, but this is my response.

To answer your question my approach is to create critical thinking though in the long run it's not going to matter because their are so many people in the world today, that their will be no way to reconcile everything into one view.

There are only certain aspects of the bible applicable for us to understand today.

Which is the death of Yeshua at the crucifixion, which paid for all men/women sins for all the world, the resurrection of Yeshua by God who raised Him alive from the dead, the spiritual body that is received after passing away from this life by having a relationship with God and Yeshua by the spirit.

The fact that all believers receive the spirit (Kingdom of God/Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ) when they believe on God, and Yeshua, which is a persons new creation because of them turning from darkness toward the light of Yeshua who is the light of all men, and brings life.

@mmksparbud From what you shared, it seems that they are mentioned here in this post about the spiritual body, how we are changed when we believe in God, and Yeshua.

In 1 Corinthian, We are transformed because of the spirit that is given to us, (When we believe)

Though when we died physically in 1 Corinthians it talks about how we are going to be receiving a spiritual body when we die and pass away from this life.

The 2nd peter scripture you shared just reminds me of how when we live by the spirit and by trusting God who is love and fire, certain things in life from the earthly view burn down.

The Revelation 1:7 scripture you shared says all shall seem him, even the ones who pierced him, are there any people around today still living that pierced Yeshua Christ on the cross? Matthew 24:30 just co-relates to this scripture of Revelation.

Hope that my message is getting across on just simply how it's good to think critically, question yourself, question others, but think for yourself, have faith in God, and Yeshua, and live the best you can by the spirit, in love, mercy, compassion, understanding, that comes from God, and from Yeshua Christ.

Thank you both for the replies.

Thanks for posting.
 
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eleos1954

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Hi again, Eleos1954.

How can/are prophetic truths be lost or recognized if the people that the truths are being written to are a group of people that are mention in just about every book in its introduction, that is written in the bible stating who it is being written to?

It doesn't matter to me if someone doesn't agree with me or not, because it is my own choice to believe scriptures how they are presented, but this is my response.

To answer your question my approach is to create critical thinking though in the long run it's not going to matter because their are so many people in the world today, that their will be no way to reconcile everything into one view.

There are only certain aspects of the bible applicable for us to understand today.

Which is the death of Yeshua at the crucifixion, which paid for all men/women sins for all the world, the resurrection of Yeshua by God who raised Him alive from the dead, the spiritual body that is received after passing away from this life by having a relationship with God and Yeshua by the spirit.

The fact that all believers receive the spirit (Kingdom of God/Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ) when they believe on God, and Yeshua, which is a persons new creation because of them turning from darkness toward the light of Yeshua who is the light of all men, and brings life.

@mmksparbud From what you shared, it seems that they are mentioned here in this post about the spiritual body, how we are changed when we believe in God, and Yeshua.

In 1 Corinthian, We are transformed because of the spirit that is given to us, (When we believe)

Though when we died physically in 1 Corinthians it talks about how we are going to be receiving a spiritual body when we die and pass away from this life.

The 2nd peter scripture you shared just reminds me of how when we live by the spirit and by trusting God who is love and fire, certain things in life from the earthly view burn down.

The Revelation 1:7 scripture you shared says all shall seem him, even the ones who pierced him, are there any people around today still living that pierced Yeshua Christ on the cross? Matthew 24:30 just co-relates to this scripture of Revelation.

Hope that my message is getting across on just simply how it's good to think critically, question yourself, question others, but think for yourself, have faith in God, and Yeshua, and live the best you can by the spirit, in love, mercy, compassion, understanding, that comes from God, and from Yeshua Christ.

Thank you both for the replies.

Thanks for posting.

Hi ... sure yeah .... I understand and respect your point of view ... people have different views and that's ok ... I take the agree to disagree approach ... each of us are responsible for what we believe. Am just discussing a few differences we have.

Regarding ....

The Revelation 1:7 scripture you shared says all shall seem him, even the ones who pierced him, are there any people around today still living that pierced Yeshua Christ on the cross? Matthew 24:30 just co-relates to this scripture of Revelation.

Still living ? No ... but ...

There are 2 resurrections ... 1st of the saved .... and 2nd of the lost .... when the
2nd of the lost resurrection happens .... those who pierced Him will indeed see Him.

I'm just saying .... ;o)
 
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Victor in Christ

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Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

No.

Jude 14-25, Revelation 22:10

Christ will also return the way he ascended. I don't know if that is literal or spiritual, but i do know its going to be an awful day of judgement for those in his church. He will judge the professing Christian first (Jew and Gentile), then the rest of the world.
 
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Albion

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If Jesus Christ own Apostles believed this where did they get this information; this inspiration from? They were taught by Yeshua Christ Himself.​

Yes, but the New Testament is full of examples of the Apostles not understanding Christ's words, even though these men were, as you said, taught directly by him.



 
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eleos1954

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Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

No.

Jude 14-25, Revelation 22:10

Christ will also return the way he ascended. I don't know if that is literal or spiritual, but i do know its going to be an awful day of judgement for those in his church. He will judge the professing Christian first (Jew and Gentile), then the rest of the world.

Judgement happens before He returns .... we are judged by the records of our lives that are in heaven. ie Book of Life

It is literal ...

Revelation 22:12 (when He returns)

One day He looks down and sees this ...

Let the unrighteous continue to be unrighteous, and the vile continue to be vile; let the righteous continue to practice righteousness, and the holy continue to be holy.” (ie everyone has made their decision)

12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
 
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mlepfitjw

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Yes, but the New Testament is full of examples of the Apostles not understanding Christ's words, even though these men were, as you said, taught directly by him.




Is it possible they understood more once the received the Holy Spirit after the ascendancy of Yeshua Christ?
Has Yeshua/Jesus Christ Returned?

No.

Jude 14-25, Revelation 22:10

Christ will also return the way he ascended. I don't know if that is literal or spiritual, but i do know its going to be an awful day of judgement for those in his church. He will judge the professing Christian first (Jew and Gentile), then the rest of the world.

Okay, the way my view is it’s a spiritual one.

I try and respect all views equally too *edit @eleos1954
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Yes, but the New Testament is full of examples of the Apostles not understanding Christ's words, even though these men were, as you said, taught directly by him.



They did not understand everything Jesus taught until Pentecost when they were baptized by the Spirit of God.

John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.


hope this helps !!!
 
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eleos1954

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Is it possible they understood more once the received the Holy Spirit after the ascendancy of Yeshua Christ?


Okay, the way my view is it’s a spiritual one.

I respect all views equally too @eleos1954

Resurrection .... (bring back to life) .... Jesus performed actual bodily resurrections ... ie Lazarus (and there are others) ... they were not "spiritual" ones.
 
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Albion

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Is it possible they understood more once the received the Holy Spirit after the ascendancy of Yeshua Christ?
Sure, but you've presented us with what looks like a case of them NOT understanding, even after Pentecost.
 
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solid_core

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If we do not want to throw away whole the New Testament and keep "day is a thousand years" verse only instead, we probably have to conclude that Jesus came back in the first century.

From the text of the New Testament itself. It does not allow for such long period of waiting. Disciples were said many times they will experience it in their generation, quickly and certainly.
 
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Albion

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From the text of the New Testament itself. It does not allow for such long period of waiting.

Maybe not--assuming that our conceptions of time are definitive--but OTOH the New Testament also reveals that certain things are supposed to happen at the time of the Second Coming. So far, they have not.
 
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solid_core

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Maybe not--assuming that our conceptions of time are definitive--but OTOH the New Testament also reveals that certain things are supposed to happen at the time of the Second Coming. So far, they have not.
I see only three logical possibilities:
a) the promise given in the New Testament was changed after the New Testament was written
b) the promise failed
c) the promise was fulfilled even though we do not have historical records of its fulfillment (probably because the church was taken and the rest did not understand what happened)
 
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solid_core

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d) we have misunderstood the promise.
Its a difficult position, when the promise is repeated so many times so clearly.

It would equal to totally different meanings of the words than expected, i.e. the communication about the promise would be pointless, because it would not mean what words mean.

I say "horse", but I mean "cat", I say "quickly", but I mean "after thousands of years", I mean "some of you will be alive", but I mean "nobody of you will be alive" , I say "when you will see" but I mean "you will not see it", I say "those of us who will be alive in that day", but I mean "nobody of us will be alive in that day" etc throughout the New Testament.
 
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Albion

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Its a difficult position, when the promise is repeated so many times so clearly.

Well, not exactly. ;) By that I mean that the promise is there...but so also are the other specifics relating to the promise of a Second Coming in, apparently, short order.

As my previous post pointed out, we also have in the NT a number of other things that are supposed to happen at that time, but they do not seem to have happened. So we have to consider all of this before concluding that the Second Coming must have occurred already.
 
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