• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Has Sheehan lost it?

12volt_man

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
7,339
260
✟9,150.00
Faith
Christian
Smoke Screen said:
A war against the sovereign state of Iraq without the express authorization of the UN is illegal under international law. It goes against the UN Charter and against the Resolution 1441.[/b][/color] http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/. [/font]

I didn't find this in the link you gave us and 1441 refers to the constraints on Saddam Hussein following the cease fire that stopped the first Gulf War, not to the US.

Lies:

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -- President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.

"We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." -- President Bush, Oct. 7.

There's many more...

I see. So, when Bill Clinton said it, when Al Gore said it, when John Kerry said it, when Hillary Clinton said it, when virtually every Democrat in the Senate said it, when German intel said it, when British intel said it, when the UN said it, were these lies also?


Their reasoning to go to war with Iraq was a lie. Her son was sent to Iraq for a lie. He died because of their lies.

But you haven't shown us any lies.

Perhaps you should spend some time reading current events from more reliable sources?

Perhaps you should spend some time trying to put a cogent argument together, rather than calling names and making snide remarks.

I think it is assinine.

But you won't explain what is assinine about it.

In your previous post you said,[/color] "[/b]What's ironic is that after people got tired of hearing her badmouth her own dead son's sacrifice, she switched to the Israeli situation in Gaza and then on to hurricane Katrina."

I personally don't agree with her much on this.

No, you said that it had to do with her son. Don't weasel out now. What do these things have to do with her son?

"Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry?

So why isn't she angry at the murderer?

"Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel.

And what does she base this on?

"Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by a George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11.

And yet, she says she's not stupid. Hmm...

What Bush's Katrina shows once again is that my son died for nothing. If you listen to Bush – and fewer and fewer are, thank goodness -- we are in Iraq in part due to 9/11. All our president has been talking about has been protecting this country since 9/11. That's why people voted for him in the last election. Katrina shows it's all as sham, a fraud, a disaster as large as Katrina itself."

One has nothing to do with the other and she doesn't even attempt to make a connection.

"Hundreds of billions of dollars and tens of thousands of innocent lives wasted later what have we achieved? Nothing. Casey died for nothing and Bush says others have to die for those that have died already."
Afghanistan now has a democratic government. The Taliban is nearly gone in that country.

Saddam is gone. Iraq has had the first democratic elections in generations.

"Enough, George! What is disgusting is not, as the first lady says, criticism of you, but rather the crimes you've committed against this country and our sons and daughters. Stop hiding behind your twisted idea of God and stop destroying this country."
]

What crimes? What "twisted view of God"? How is President Bush "destroying this country"?

"This week I arrive in Washington DC to begin my Vigil at the White House just like I did in Texas. But this time I'll be joined by Katrina victims as well.

How many of these people will criticize the Democrat mayor of New Orleans or the Democrat governor of Louisiana?

In your America we are all victims. The failed bookends of your Presidency are Iraq and Katrina."

How is he responsible for Katrina?

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Sounds like the ravings of a lunatic to me.

Just like the 9/11 Victims are pawns to the right.

How so?


All I said was that your statements were assinine and ignorant. I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

In order for you to hurt my feelings, I'd have to care what you think. It has nothing to do with hurt feelings. It's about behaving like an adult.

Correct you on what?

You just called me assinine and ignorant, so obviously you believe I'm wrong.

Now, are you going to correct me on those points or are you just going to call names?
 
Upvote 0

UberLutheran

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
10,708
1,677
✟20,440.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
arnegrim said:
So you think the National Guard needs to get out of New Orleans ASAP?

But thank you (and some of the other conservatives here) for putting words in my mouth and holding me accountable for things I didn't say.

rolleyes.gif
:sigh:
 
Upvote 0

Scholar in training

sine ira et studio
Feb 25, 2005
5,952
219
United States
✟30,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
UberLutheran said:
But thank you (and some of the other conservatives here) for putting words in my mouth and holding me accountable for things I didn't say.

rolleyes.gif
:sigh:
You did say: "[Cindy Sheehan has probably lost it]...at least, if one is a conservative and doesn't agree with what Cindy Sheehan says and does."

The last part of the sentence seems to imply that you agree with her. I think that's what Arne was getting at. Do you think that she's right about the National Guard?
 
Upvote 0

UberLutheran

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
10,708
1,677
✟20,440.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
MaryS said:
I wonder what you would think of Cindy Sheehan if she were attacking the policies of a Democrat President?
Actually, she did! - but that didn't get much media attention:

During the Clinton regime the US-UN led sanctions against Iraq and the weekly bombing raids killed tens of thousands of innocent people in Iraq. Many of them were children, but since one of her children didn’t have to be sacrificed to the homicidal war machine, Madeline Albright, thinks the slaughter during the “halcyon” Clinton years was “worth it.” More lies.
(excerpt of article by Cindy Sheehan at:
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0606-29.htm


Sheehan didn't make major news for her criticisms of Democrats that voted for the war and haven't done enough to condemn it either. She's challenged Senators Hillary Clinton and Diane Feinstein already, just to name two.

Well, I didn't see any of you Republicans saying nice things about Clinton -- or any other Democrat -- when Clinton was in office. In fact, Republicans had Clinton impeached for having an affair.

YOUR President, on the other hand, lied about the deficits, lied about our reasons for invading Iraq, lied about the weapons of mass destruction, lied about what he knew before 9/11, lied about what he knew after 9/11, lied about FEMA, lied about the condition of the New Orleans levees -- and Republicans continue to support him without reservation.

How many people died because of Bill Clinton's affair?

Now: how many people have died in Iraq? At the World Trade Center? In New Orleans?

Regarding Cindy Sheehan (the topic at hand) -- why would I expect Republicans to support anything Cindy Sheehan said? And exactly WHY do you think I should support your President?
 
Upvote 0

UberLutheran

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
10,708
1,677
✟20,440.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Scholar in training said:
You did say: "[Cindy Sheehan has probably lost it]...at least, if one is a conservative and doesn't agree with what Cindy Sheehan says and does."

The last part of the sentence seems to imply that you agree with her. I think that's what Arne was getting at. Do you think that she's right about the National Guard?

Matthew 27:11b Jesus said to him, "So you say."
 
Upvote 0

arnegrim

...still not convinced it was the wrong one.
Jun 2, 2004
4,852
140
California
✟28,223.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
UberLutheran said:
But thank you (and some of the other conservatives here) for putting words in my mouth and holding me accountable for things I didn't say.

rolleyes.gif
:sigh:

I put no words in your mouth... I asked a question to get you to clarify.

Sheehan is calling for an end to the 'occupation' of New Orleans...

Do you agree with that sentiment?
 
Upvote 0

MaryS

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2004
2,350
137
✟3,195.00
Faith
Christian
Politics
US-Republican
Halruaa said:
Bush and his administration are an embarassment towards this country. Cindy Sheehan does have valid points, and has every right to express them.

You seem to be among the majority of the posters in this thread that are overlooking what the thread-starter had highlighted as the point of the post. Cindy Sheehan suggesting that Bush pull our troops out of "occupied New Orleans"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brennin
Upvote 0

12volt_man

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
7,339
260
✟9,150.00
Faith
Christian
In A Perfect World said:
I think she is a woman with a cause and a good heart, but she doesn't know how to explain her cause and appears to be misguinded. Atleast, that's what I think.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't know that I could say that a woman who would exploit and dishonor her dead son has a "good heart".
 
Upvote 0

12volt_man

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2004
7,339
260
✟9,150.00
Faith
Christian
UberLutheran said:
Well, I didn't see any of you Republicans saying nice things about Clinton -- or any other Democrat -- when Clinton was in office. In fact, Republicans had Clinton impeached for having an affair.

Actually, that's not true. He was impeached for perjury and obstructing justice.

It had nothing to do with any of his various affairs.

YOUR President, on the other hand, lied about the deficits,

How so?

lied about our reasons for invading Iraq, lied about the weapons of mass destruction,

Really? So why is it a lie when President Bush said it, but not a lie when Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, virtually every Democrat in the Senate, German intel, British intel, and the UN said the very same thing?

lied about what he knew before 9/11, lied about what he knew after 9/11, lied about FEMA, lied about the condition of the New Orleans levees -- and Republicans continue to support him without reservation.

Would you mind explaining these "lies" for us?

How many people died because of Bill Clinton's affair?

The difference is that Clinton's perjury and obstruction of justice were felonies. Bush has committed no crime.

Now: how many people have died in Iraq? At the World Trade Center? In New Orleans?

Yes, God forbid we should blame the people who flew planes into the WTC for the deaths there. How do you believe that President Bush is responsible for the deaths in New Orleans?

Regarding Cindy Sheehan (the topic at hand) -- why in the hell would I expect Republicans to support anything Cindy Sheehan said?

I don't know. Why should I support anything she says?

And exactly WHY do you think I should support your President?

First, because the Bible says that we should show respect to those in authority over us.

Second, because he's your president, too.
 
Upvote 0

Scholar in training

sine ira et studio
Feb 25, 2005
5,952
219
United States
✟30,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
UberLutheran said:
Matthew 27:11b Jesus said to him, "So you say."
Do you mind explaining to me how New Orleans is an occupied city when our government is not a foreign power and our troops are not "taking over" anything?
 
Upvote 0

UberLutheran

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
10,708
1,677
✟20,440.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Scholar in training said:
Do you mind explaining to me how New Orleans is an occupied city when our government is not a foreign power and our troops are not "taking over" anything?

What I said (and I quote) was:
Matthew 27:11b Jesus said to him, "So you say."
 
Upvote 0

Scholar in training

sine ira et studio
Feb 25, 2005
5,952
219
United States
✟30,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
UberLutheran said:
What I said (and I quote) was:
Matthew 27:11b Jesus said to him, "So you say."
I checked another version (the NIV) and it renders this verse "It is as you say". This verse seems to be an admission of fact or a rhetorical statement, not a sarcastic one, because in 27:11a Pilate asked Jesus if he was king of the Jews. And Jesus did indeed admit to that; hence the INRI sign on the top of his cross.

So, I again ask the question: do you or do you not agree with Cindy Sheehan that New Orleans is being occupied?
 
Upvote 0

SisterGeoff

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2004
807
63
43
Visit site
✟23,764.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Rochir said:
Do Americans always have to go over the top, no matter in what direction? :(

Yes, you see we operate on a version of the ten commandments down here that has a few thousand admendums attached to it one of which is "Thou shall lose any and all sense of reason, logic, good taste, tact and contact with reality when thou the political arena, thus sayith the lord".

As for Mrs Sheehan, if the quote is accurate she is out of her mind. Please note, I opposed the invasion of Iraq and I oppose us remaining there however that does not change that this woman, again if the quote is accurate, is out of her mind.
 
Upvote 0

Scholar in training

sine ira et studio
Feb 25, 2005
5,952
219
United States
✟30,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
Rochir said:
Do Americans always have to go over the top, no matter in what direction? :(
Yes, because as all intellectuals know, Americans say the darndest things.

(And if you believe that, I've got a Modest Proposal to show you).
 
Upvote 0