Has everyone gone to hell so far since the Resurrection?

Freedm

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Which was said before Jesus died and rose again, and atoned for sins, thus allowing the righteous dead to go to heaven, from then on.
That's a nice theory but there's no proof of it. In fact, everything we read about death in scripture tells us that we sleep in the dust of the earth until the resurrection on the last day.

Furthermore, an instant trip to heaven would render a judgment day entirely pointless since you would have to be judged before entering heaven (or hell, if you believe in such a thing).
 
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Freedm

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We know that the flesh returns to dust and the soul returns to God who gave it...Ecclesiastes 12:7
So the soul is with God (certainly the souls of believers). I Corinthians say the dead sleep so one assumes these souls are unaware. We are all brought back to life in both body and soul while those still living on the earth will join us, then as I Corinthians also states we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
When we consider that the body of Lazarus was changed like this when Jesus brought him back to life we see we are probably on the right course to stay with these scriptures when puzzling out the end-times.

You misquote Ecclesiastes 12:7 and therefore you don't understand what a "soul" is. Ecclesiastes 12:7 doesn't say the "soul" returns to God, it says the "spirit" returns to God. That's an important distinction because a soul and spirit are not the same thing.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Now look at how Genesis 2:7 defines a soul.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

A soul is not a spirit living in your body, as Hollywood would have you believe. You don't have a soul. You are a soul. What returns to God is your "spirit", which again is not what Hollywood would have you believe, conflating the words soul and spirit as though they are the same thing, but rather the spirit referred to here simply refers to your life, or your breath of life.

The word used in Ecclesiastes 12:7 for "spirit" is the Hebrew word ruach which means breath.

Since our life comes from God, in the form of his breath, obviously when we lose our life it has to go somewhere and so it returns to God. But this breath of life does not carry your consciousness, your senses, or your memories. It no more carries any of that than a battery carries the capabilities of, or the information stored on, your phone. The battery only gives life to your phone, just as your "spirit" only gives life to you. And you are a body made of dust, nothing more.

This is also what Matthew 27:5 is referring to, speaking of Jesus' death on the cross.

Matthew 27:5

And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

He gave up his spirit, meaning he gave up his life. This sentence wouldn't make sense anyway if this "spirit" was Jesus himself but in a different form, because then he wouldn't be able to "give up" himself. No, the only way this sentence makes sense is if the spirit is separate from Jesus and is not Jesus, but merely something that gives him life.

Carrying this thought even further, we simply wouldn't be able to claim that Jesus died if he'd only left his body in a spiritual form. That wouldn't be death at all, but Jesus did in fact die and come back to life. He didn't just leave his body and return. If he had, then scripture would've told us so.
 
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Freedm

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What you say is true as far the OT is concerned. But now believers' souls go to Paradise:

Luk 23:43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

2Co 12:2 I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. 3 And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
You make a valid point, but these three verses are far from conclusive. Your first example would only need the comma to be moved in order to completely change the meaning. Your third example is a vision of heaven and entirely symbolic. Surely you don't believe people would literally be trapped under an alter in heaven, do you?

Only your second example gives me pause. I don't know what Paul means by that but given that it seems to contradict literally hundreds of other scriptures, not only in the OT but also in the NT, that I have to believe he did not mean what it sounds like he's saying. If only he were here to clarify for us.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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It says of the Rapture "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
Thessalonians 4:16
So the dead in Christ have not gone to heaven yet I take it. Is this correct?

The dead in Christ are present with the Lord. The Lord is not in hell.
Consider this verse: "6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
Blessings
 
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mlepfitjw

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Has everyone gone to hell so far since the Resurrection?

No. Everyone who dies has their own rapture individually at the last breathe they take, and go on unto to be with God in the heavenly Jerusalem, either in the city, or outside the city.

From my view the new testament is complete, and hell is now emptied because of the Lord Jesus Christ overcoming, satan, death, and even overcoming hell coming back when God resurrected the Lord back to life after three days.
 
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Andrewn

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That's a nice theory but there's no proof of it. In fact, everything we read about death in scripture tells us that we sleep in the dust of the earth until the resurrection on the last day.
I will make a couple of comments but will not get into a discussion of soul sleep. If this is what you believe so be it.

Furthermore, an instant trip to heaven would render a judgment day entirely pointless since you would have to be judged before entering heaven (or hell, if you believe in such a thing).
I, relatively recently, asked the same question in the following thread:

Why the Last Judgment?

You don't have a soul.
But this breath [spirit] of life does not carry your consciousness, your senses, or your memories.
And you are a body made of dust, nothing more.
I know these are typical SDA & JW beliefs but any agnostic would say the same.

Now look at how Genesis 2:7 defines a soul.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
It's unfortunate that Heb "nefesh" is translated into "soul." The best modern translations render "nefesh" into "being."

OTOH, it is Heb "neshama" translated into "breath" in this verse, which really refers to the "soul" as we understand the "soul" in English.
 
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chad kincham

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That's a nice theory but there's no proof of it. In fact, everything we read about death in scripture tells us that we sleep in the dust of the earth until the resurrection on the last day.

Furthermore, an instant trip to heaven would render a judgment day entirely pointless since you would have to be judged before entering heaven (or hell, if you believe in such a thing).

Christians do not go through judgment for salvation or damnation on judgment day.

Our sins are forgiven and we become the spiritual bride of Christ, and sit in heavenly places with Jesus, when we receive Jesus and become a child of God John 1:12.

On judgment day, believers are judged by Jesus for rewards in heaven, not for salvation or damnation.

They stand in the sheep line, at the right hand of God.

The damned are in the group at the left hand of the father, and they are judged and sent to hell.

Soul sleep is bogus.

You think hell is the grave. It’s not. It’s a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, so that when every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell bow:


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.


That place under the earth was described for us by Jesus.


Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would comefrom thence.


The above is not a parable.


A parable is a teaching tool, an analogy that relates one thing to another thing:


Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:


The kingdom of heaven is compared to a grain of mustard seed being planted.


The story of the rich man in hell is not compared to anything else, and it gives names: Abraham, Lazarus.


Parables are vague, and do not give specifics like names.


Hell is a place that Jesus said was originally created for satan and his fallen angels. And the damned are cast into that same place of everlasting fire.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.


And the angels in hell aren’t sleeping either. They are conscious, which is why they are chained to prevent their escape.


Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Soul sleep dogma claims that the soul and body take a dirt nap at physical death, meaning the soul is buried in the ground along with the body, thus it SLEEPS there.


Not true.


In 1 Kings, Elijah prayed three times for a dead boys SOUL to come back into his body. When his SOUL returned to his body again, the dead child was alive again. His soul wasn’t asleep with his dead body, it had LEFT and had to return.


1Ki 17:20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?


1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come INTO HIM AGAIN.


1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN and he revived.


1Ki 17:23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son LIVETH.


When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.


Gen 35:18 And as her SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.


Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),


Paul was pretty clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5 that our body is a HOUSE that we live in, that we leave at physical death.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.


2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are AT HOME IN THE BODY we are absent from the Lord:


2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY, and to be PRESENT with the Lord.


Our body is a house that we make our home in, until we die, then we leave our body and go to be with Jesus, if we were believers.


Scripture further makes that clear that at salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into our house, the body, and changes it from just a house, into the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your BODY is the TEMPLE of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


It further makes it clear that our body is a house when Jesus gives an example of a demon possessed man, who had a demon cast out of him, but the demon went out and got more demons, and returned to the man, and found his HOUSE swept clean, and moved right back in and brought the other demons with him, so that man was worse off than he was before.


Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone OUT OF a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they ENTER IN and DWELL there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


When Stephen was stoned to death, he looked into heaven and saw Jesus, and said, Lord Jesus, receive my SPIRIT.


He expected to be absent from his body, and to be present with the Lord, right then, not later on after taking a dirt nap first.


Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.


Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,


Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.


Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, RECEIVE MY SPIRIT


John the revelator was caught up into heaven, and saw SOULS there.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


In Thessalonians 4, Jesus comes to raise the dead bodies of the saints and reunite them with the souls He brings with Him from heaven.


Yes, when He returns for those bodies to raise from the dead, He at the same time brings the saints WITH HIM from heaven.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM.


1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD in Christ shall RISE first:


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Soul sleep is not correct doctrine.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren...
 
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FulfilledInHim

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"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." -John 3:13, KJV

Remember this was said before His death and Resurrection and more importantly before “the resurrection on the last day” which would populate heaven , the place prepared for us in His Father’s House. Surely Jesus would not promise this abode to his followers 2000 years ago if 2 millennia later we are still waiting for such a resting place.

But the original statement is correct, there would be no one in heaven if The Resurrection has not happened yet. That is the promise of the Resurrection, that we who believe in Him will be raised to eternal life in His Fathers’ House.
But this is why we must believe The Resurrection has occurred for the sake of the eternal life of all believers. Without it our fates would remain the same as those who did not believe, Sheol. This really is close to heresy, to deny the Resurrection. And do not be deceived by the abuse of scripture that warns against those who “say the resurrection has already happened” 2Timothy 2:18. True to the time of the scripture in the 50’s AD. The End of the Age had not occurred yet, 20 years away.
It is vital for strong doctrine that we are able to discern all these things.
 
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Freedm

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Christians do not go through judgment for salvation or damnation on judgment day.
Obviously your post is far too long to read, so I'll respond only to your first statement. What makes you think Christians don't have to stand before the judgment throne?
 
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Freedm

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I know these are typical SDA & JW beliefs but any agnostic would say the same.
Not sure why people always feel the need to classify one's beliefs according to denomination or faith group, especially when doing so appears to be a slight of some sort, but if SDAs or JWs believe what I believe then they're clearly a smart bunch of people.
 
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chad kincham

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Obviously your post is far too long to read, so I'll respond only to your first statement. What makes you think Christians don't have to stand before the judgment throne?

All you had to do was read the first six verses or so, to get that answer:

Christians do not go through judgment for salvation or damnation on judgment day.

Our sins are forgiven and we become the spiritual bride of Christ, and sit in heavenly places with Jesus, when we receive Jesus and become a child of God John 1:12.

On judgment day, believers are judged by Jesus for rewards in heaven, not for salvation or damnation.

They stand in the sheep line, at the right hand of God.

The damned are in the goat group at the left hand of the father, and they are judged and sent to hell.

Shalom.
 
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