Has everyone gone to hell so far since the Resurrection?

[Freedm]

That is odd. Both places are mentioned in the Bible, so we know that they exist but you said " hell" like it is fiction.

It is fiction, and you say it's mentioned in the Bible but that depends on which translation you read. The KJV uses the word hell 53 times, but the NIV only 13 times. Youngs Literal Translation never uses the word hell at all. Why is that? It's because the various versions of the Bible have been inconsistent in their translations, and not a single one of the references to hell actually refer to a place of eternal torment for people. Hell is always a translation for one of Sheol, Hades, Gehenna or Tartarus.

Sheol / Hades

Sheol and Hades both mean the same thing. (Sheol is Hebrew and Hades is Greek) They mean "the unseen place of the dead" or simply "the grave".

Keeping in mind that everybody goes to Sheol upon death (not only the wicked) it's important to note the way the KJV translates the word. When it speaks of the righteous dying, Sheol is translated as "the grave" but when it speaks of the wicked dying, Sheol is translated as "hell". This is a disingenuous, suggestive and misleading translation.

Gehenna

Gehenna refers to the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem, where pagans also used to sacrifice children in fire to baal.

Tartarus

Tartarus is a place deep inside Hades where the Titans are chained up. In fact, the word Tartarus is used only once in scripture and it's in 2 Peter 2:4 where it tells us that this is the place where the angels are chained up. Both the KJV and NIV translate the word Tartarus as hell, and this is the only word that actually comes close to the modern popular culture understanding of what we call "hell" but the word Tartarus itself is never used to refer to a place where people go.

 

[martymonster]

No one is in "Hell" No one will ever be in "Hell" There is no such place, and there never will be.

 

[Freedm]

No one is in "Hell" No one will ever be in "Hell" There is no such place, and there never will be.

I generally agree with you, but what are your thoughts on the lake of fire?

 

[martymonster]

I generally agree with you, but what are your thoughts on the lake of fire?

The lake of fire is God's elect. The are the first fruits, through which the rest of the harvest is brought in. The lake of fire is symbolic, just like everything else in scripture.

 

[Freedm]

The lake of fire is God's elect. The are the first fruits, through which the rest of the harvest is brought in. The lake of fire is symbolic, just like everything else in scripture.

Interesting theory. I've never heard that one before. What's your supporting scripture for this?

 

[martymonster]

Interesting theory. I've never heard that one before. What's your supporting scripture for this?

Exo 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
Exo 34:22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

[Freedm]

So do you believe that those we will judge in the new age are those who've rejected Christ in this age?

 

[martymonster]

So do you believe that those we will judge in the new age are those who've rejected Christ in this age?

Yes, but not just non-christians, but those who refuse the real Christ, because they have another Jesus.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Freedm]

So you believe in universalism. That's very interesting. I tend to lean that way as well but there's this one passage that makes me doubt it.

Revelation 20:5
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

How do you reconcile that with universalism?

 

[martymonster]

So you believe in universalism. That's very interesting. I tend to lean that way as well but there's this one passage that makes me doubt it.

Revelation 20:5
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

How do you reconcile that with universalism?

Easy.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Nowhere does it say that those go into the lake of fire, never come out again. Indeed, those that go into the lake of fire, will repent in sackcloth and ashes.

 

[Freedm]

Revelation 14:11 seems to indicate an eternal punishment for those who follow the beast.

And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.

The Greek words used here are aiōnas aiōnōn which means "ages of ages", and my understanding is that, although aiōnōn can refer to a single age, using it in this way always means never ending. Thoughts?

 

[martymonster]

Revelation 14:11 seems to indicate an eternal punishment for those who follow the beast.

And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.

The Greek words used here are aiōnas aiōnōn which means "ages of ages", and my understanding is that, although aiōnōn can refer to a single age, using it in this way always means never ending. Thoughts?

Tbh, it's been a long time since I looked into the Greek meaning of aionas. I don't rely on an understanding of aionon for my understanding of scripture. I rely upon the harmonization of the entirety of scripture. A spiritual understanding of scripture is key.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[mmksparbud]

It says of the Rapture "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
Thessalonians 4:16
So the dead in Christ have not gone to heaven yet I take it. Is this correct?

no one is in heaven or hell----when Jesus returns He comes back for the saved only. The wicked die at the brightness of His coming and remain dead until after the 1000 years, then they face their judgement.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[chad kincham]

It says of the Rapture "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
Thessalonians 4:16
So the dead in Christ have not gone to heaven yet I take it. Is this correct?

The dead bodies are resurrected with the souls Jesus brings with Him from heaven, and are made immortal.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM.

 

[chad kincham]

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." -John 3:13, KJV

Which was said before Jesus died and rose again, and atoned for sins, thus allowing the righteous dead to go to heaven, from then on.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

It says of the Rapture "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
Thessalonians 4:16
So the dead in Christ have not gone to heaven yet I take it. Is this correct?

We know that the flesh returns to dust and the soul returns to God who gave it...Ecclesiastes 12:7
So the soul is with God (certainly the souls of believers). I Corinthians say the dead sleep so one assumes these souls are unaware. We are all brought back to life in both body and soul while those still living on the earth will join us, then as I Corinthians also states we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
When we consider that the body of Lazarus was changed like this when Jesus brought him back to life we see we are probably on the right course to stay with these scriptures when puzzling out the end-times.

 

[Andrewn]

It's because the various versions of the Bible have been inconsistent in their translations, and not a single one of the references to hell actually refer to a place of eternal torment for people. Hell is always a translation for one of Sheol, Hades, Gehenna or Tartarus.

I agree that our modern English understanding of "hell" doesn't match the concepts you referenced. But I disagree that our modern understanding of "hell" is fiction bec it seems to describe the "Lake of Fire."

Sheol and Hades both mean the same thing. (Sheol is Hebrew and Hades is Greek) They mean "the unseen place of the dead" or simply "the grave". Keeping in mind that everybody goes to Sheol upon death (not only the wicked)

What you say is true as far the OT is concerned. But now believers' souls go to Paradise:

Luk 23:43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

2Co 12:2 I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. 3 And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.

Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.

Gehenna refers to the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem, where pagans also used to sacrifice children in fire to baal.

What you say is true as far the OT is concerned. But, by Jesus' time the word came to refer to the dwelling of the unjust in Hades. The following is an excellent article:

GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Tartarus is a place deep inside Hades where the Titans are chained up. In fact, the word Tartarus is used only once in scripture and it's in 2 Peter 2:4 where it tells us that this is the place where the angels are chained up.

Yes, this is true. Jude describes that place as follows:

Jud 1:6 and the angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains in deep darkness for the judgment on the great day.

 

[Jaxxi]

We know that the flesh returns to dust and the soul returns to God who gave it...Ecclesiastes 12:7
So the soul is with God (certainly the souls of believers). I Corinthians say the dead sleep so one assumes these souls are unaware. We are all brought back to life in both body and soul while those still living on the earth will join us, then as I Corinthians also states we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
When we consider that the body of Lazarus was changed like this when Jesus brought him back to life we see we are probably on the right course to stay with these scriptures when puzzling out the end-times.

We find a little more info in the Book of Enoch, which says

These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4 assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5 and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6 with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8 The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9 And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10 water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11 lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12 He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction.

This Book is so valuable during this time.

 

[Andrewn]

This Book is so valuable during this time.

First Enoch is divided into 5 distinct books. Then we have Slavonic Enoch, and 3rd Enoch. So, there are 7 books altogether. I don't see value in any of these mythologies.

Which of these books do you think is / are valuable?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

We find a little more info in the Book of Enoch, which says

These hollow places have been created for this very purpose, that the spirits of the souls of the dead should 4 assemble therein, yea that all the souls of the children of men should assemble here. And these places have been made to receive them till the day of their judgement and till their appointed period [till the period appointed], till the great judgement (comes) upon them.' I saw (the spirit of) a dead man making suit, 5 and his voice went forth to heaven and made suit. And I asked Raphael the angel who was 6 with me, and I said unto him: 'This spirit which maketh suit, whose is it, whose voice goeth forth and maketh suit to heaven ?' 7 And he answered me saying: 'This is the spirit which went forth from Abel, whom his brother Cain slew, and he makes his suit against him till his seed is destroyed from the face of the earth, and his seed is annihilated from amongst the seed of men.' 8 The I asked regarding it, and regarding all the hollow places: 'Why is one separated from the other?' 9 And he answered me and said unto me: 'These three have been made that the spirits of the dead might be separated. And such a division has been make (for) the spirits of the righteous, in which there is the bright spring of 10 water. And such has been made for sinners when they die and are buried in the earth and judgement has not been executed on them in their 11 lifetime. Here their spirits shall be set apart in this great pain till the great day of judgement and punishment and torment of those who curse for ever and retribution for their spirits. There 12 He shall bind them for ever. And such a division has been made for the spirits of those who make their suit, who make disclosures concerning their destruction.

This Book is so valuable during this time.

The Book of Enoch has been declared corrupted, however, and it appears there are some half truths mixed with human thoughts and pronouncements.