Has anyone noticed the times Russia has taken land from Ukraine?

SoldierOfTheKing

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According to Russia those "countries" do not even exist anymore. All part of mother Russia now. That is how much Russia cared for their "independence"
They did in 2014, when the Euromaidan regime was waging a war of aggression there, (in violation of the Ukranian constitution - so much for all of the US and EU sanctimonious prattle about "rule of law") and that was of course was of course my answer to Larnevic's question
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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They’re not countries; don’t be silly. Being invaded, then holding sham referenda with obviously too high numbers of votes (higher than the actual popn) does not a country make.

Imagine if Mexico did that to Texas.

A pro Russian stance is fine. Lying through one’s teeth is not.
They were invaded by the Ukranian army, an invasion they successfully resisted. That arguably does a country make.
 
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Homeowner

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They were invaded by the Ukranian army, an invasion they successfully resisted. That arguably does a country make.

Well you can argue so nobody else does and as mentioned those "countries" clearly did not resists Russia so even by your reckoning they are not countries anymore.

Bit of lol to think they were independent countries at any point with Russian forces there all the time and being administrated from Russia.
 
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Larniavc

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They were invaded by the Ukranian army, an invasion they successfully resisted. That arguably does a country make.
What are you talking about? The Ukrainians in those regions hate the Russian soldiers who seem to be drunk thieves due to coming from ares in the grip of Russian mismanagement for decades.

Russia needs to stop invading countries it wants to add to it’s portfolio of occupied states it grinds into poverty.

And when I say Russia I mean the administration.
 
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KCfromNC

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Okay, well, I didn't make anything up.

And yet the best evidence that's been presented to show this is a wiki page with "Some have argued" as proof.

Why would I do that? What purpose would that serve?

I don't know - why don't you tell us what motives you have for posting pro-Russian propaganda?
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Really? The Russians are not retreating Eastwards?
The Ukranian army couldn't take those lands in 2014 when the Russian's weren't there. Now they think they can take them when the Russians are there...
 
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Larniavc

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The Ukranian army couldn't take those lands in 2014 when the Russian's weren't there. Now they think they can take them when the Russians are there...
They are taking them as we speak. Last time I check the Russian army was in shambles. Leaving booby traps for civilians to be killed by is about the hight of sophistication of Russian military doctrine.

If Russia cannot bomb an enemy into submission it is all out of options: it certainly cannot achieve combined arms objectives in active combat.

That’s why they are so terrified of missile defences systems: it completely defangs the Russian war machine.
 
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trunks2k

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The Ukranian army couldn't take those lands in 2014 when the Russian's weren't there. Now they think they can take them when the Russians are there...
There's a world of difference between the state of the Ukrainian military then and the Ukrainian military now. One huge difference is the amount and type of equipment being provided by western nations. That equipment supply being spurred on by Russia's invasion.

Add into that the reforms made due to the lessons learned since 2014, no longer needing to worry about prompting a Russian invasion (it already happened), and learning that the Russian military is largely a paper tiger and you have a very, very different situation.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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They are taking them as we speak.
What land that was controlled by the rebels before the Russian invasion is controlled by the Ukranian army now?

Last time I check the Russian army was in shambles. Leaving booby traps for civilians to be killed by is about the hight of sophistication of Russian military doctrine.
It is effectiveness, not sophistication, in military doctrine that wins wars. That's a way to attack the enemy's troops without putting your own in the line of fire.

One huge difference is the amount and type of equipment being provided by western nations.
It's flashy and sophisticated. It's also expensive, requires months of training (Ukranian soldiers are typically thrown on it after a few weeks, and it breaks down easily if not properly maintained. See how well that worked in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or Vietnam for that matter.
 
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Larniavc

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What land that was controlled by the rebels before the Russian invasion is controlled by the Ukranian army now?


It is effectiveness, not sophistication, in military doctrine that wins wars. That's a way to attack the enemy's troops without putting your own in the line of fire.


It's flashy and sophisticated. It's also expensive, requires months of training (Ukranian soldiers are typically thrown on it after a few weeks, and it breaks down easily if not properly maintained. See how well that worked in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or Vietnam for that matter.
I don’t think that you are facing reality, here. Russian military doctrine is apparently to bomb civilians and infrastructure until the population capitulates. Then send in ground forces.

Russia has shown no ability to use a combined arms strategy with any fines. The Wagner Group appears to function independently of the Russian chain of command.

Russia users a meat grinder strategy: throw poorly trained and equipped young men to their deaths against a highly motivated, better equipped often NATO doctrine trained force.

Most of the elite trained and equipped soldiers of the Russian invasion force are dead. They died in the first attempt to deep strike Ukraine. They are gone. About 20 Russian generals are dead. That’s astounding. Why? Because typically you leave tactical decisions to the field officers and NCOs.

But that is not how Russian doctrine goes: they don’t trust the lower ranks. Russian military service is brutal and breeds brutal soldiers or it breaks them. This is part of the reason moral is so low for the average Russian conscript.

And that conscript is typically not from metropolitan areas in Russia but from the poorly resourced areas with ethnicities Russia has long neglected.

So those poor guys get bussed to a field, get five barely functional equipment, shelter, out of date food and are told to wait- sometimes for weeks.

Then they get bussed to the front to be hurled at the enemy: by which time they are already, exhausted, demoralised and alcohol dependent and they get killed by a drone they never see or a NATO trained enemy that has night vision, body armour and working comms devices following combined arms integrated orders.

Russia can’t even combine artillery with ground assault: that’s why the Ukrainians getting hold of Patriot MDS will be the death knell for Russia as it’s military doctrine relies on it being able to pummel cities (even to the extent of ignoring military targets).

Do you see now?
 
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