Harry Potter

[Eruliel]

Good vs. Evil, what is good! In Witchcraft there is no difference between Good and Evil, all Witchcraft gets it's power from Satan. When Good witchcraft wins over Evil witchcraft who won, witchcraft!
The Sorting Hat, is a Divination tool. Which would have had a familiar spirit.

One of my favorite stories in the Bible is an obscure one. It's the story of when there was a man who was going about Judea casting out demons in Jesus' name, and the 12 went to Jesus' and said "Uh, could you stop him. He's not one of us, and he's kind of annoying us". Jesus turns to them and says "If he's doing it in my name, how can he be against me? Let him do what he's doing because he's for us and not against us".
Someone mentioned that there is someone on this board who came to the Lord because of Harry Potter. If it is for us, then how can it be against us?

Fact of the matter is this: God uses stories in cultures to bring people to a knowledge of the messiah. We cannot discount them as being useless for us simply because they contain evil false gods and good false gods, or because they contain evil "witchcraft" and good "witchcraft".

If a culture contains even one story of good triumphing over evil then that story has the potential to save a soul because it contains some form of messiah, or redeemer, and THAT is what salvation is all about: Belief In The Messiah. It's about seeking and finding, and if a story (despite it's pagan backgrounds) sets someone to seeking and finding then it's done it's duty, and cannot be seen as an evil that needs to be silenced.

Why are we so afraid of witchcraft and wiccans? The power they have cannot harm us. We're under the blood of Jesus Christ. That doesn't mean we should practice witchcraft, but why are we so paranoid about it? My family had a curse worked on us by some witches in the valley we lived in (another reason I think HP magic isn't even close to the real deal. This spell involved a skinned cat. You don't find stuff like that in the fantasy stories). We lived there unharmed, unthreatened, and happy for 10 years. We were surrounded by witchcraft, and it never harmed us.

Christians are invincible against true magick, so if that's the case why spend our time in fear of it and not learning a ding danged thing about it when we could get to understand it so we can learn to refute it and potentially bring someone to know Christ?
Slainte!
Eruliel.

 

[DarkCloud]

Just ignore him. He is being antagonistic.



I was thinking of a few other words, but we'll go with that.
Thanks brother.

Lucas

Good strategy. Don't make arguments when other people disagree with you and demand credible evidence, just call then antagonistic.

Don't attempt to place words in my mouth. I never called you dumb. Nice try in diverting the argument. You lose 20 points.

You said:

You are obviously quite uneducated in this field. You really shouldnt talk about things you know little about.

I took uneducated and "know little about things" to essentially mean dumb.

The only evidence I have to point to is the Holy Scriptures that warn against such things. You didnt answer me before, so I'll ask again: why do you think scripture warns us against these things?

In Post 50, which is the one I responded to, you gave one verse:
Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

This is vague, and I wouldn't necessarily conclude it refers to us battling demons on this planet in the sense you are thinking of. It could be referring to a battle of ideas.

Apparently logic escapes you quite easily.
It makes perfect sense that the devil would train his sights on children. A child is very impressionable, and everything they hear, see and read (if they can do so) affects their upbringing and their life later down the road. Why wouldnt the devil attack them at thsi stage in their life? Its not knowing the devil's secret plan. Its just using simple logic.
Your arrogance is quite unbecoming and not appreciated.

The science of logic has to do with truth functional statements and tautologies. What "makes perfect sense" is not an argument for a number of reasons. First, it is in the eye of beholder. The theory of evolution is obvious to me, but not to many christians. (I personally have no problem with God starting the big bang--seems a much more structured way to create a world anyway.) Second, what's obvious is not always true; for example, at a point in time it may have seemed obvious that the earth was flat; or that Newton's law was correct, or that a volcano was the work of a god, or lighning came from Zeus. Quantum mechanics gives many results which are not obvious or what we expected.

The point is, saying something is true simply on the basis that it seems obvious to you, is fallacious.

In the above, you merely speculate what YOU think is obvious and true, but it is by no means proof. Why should I adopt your hypothesis over another?

It wasnt designed to be a joke...
OH! You mean 'joke' in an insulting way.
Do you enjoy insulting other christians? Is that why you came to CF?

You gave no evidence to any of your speculations; therefore, I don't take it as a serious argument. You say you know logic, then you must provide more than an opinion to convince me demons can possess you through a piece of cardboard, and not a candy bar.

So, I suppose that the devil's devices in our world are nothing to be concerned about? Best to know who your enemy is and how he operates, IMO.
I dont fear the devil at all, but I keep my guard up as I should, and as any honest christian should. His sole purpose is to cause us to fall, and I'd rather not walk into any traps.

I personally don't believe the devil interferes in the world we live in, unless allowed to by God. I believe he lives in hell. I don't blame the devil for our problems, I blame humans.

This is probably the root of our differences. You believe demons and what not coincide with us here on earth and I do not. Therefore, there is no point continuing this because we accept different axioms.

So, demons dont exist?

See above for my personal view. Regardless, before everyone goes blaming demons for their nightmares etc, I think people ought to consider alternative explanations. Remember the cartoon, scooby doo, how the monster/curse always had a rational explanation.

 

[Jipsah]

you are declaring something that promotes witchcraft (something that the Bible opposes) to be good

Basic problem there, Dood. The "witchcraft" described in HP doesn't exist. The "witchcraft" described in the Bible does exist. Therefore they're not the same thing. Acting as though they are is ferociously silly.

Yet, you don't see anything wrong with this because you have been subjugated by the tenets of moral relativism

Or, more likely, because he's not superstitious enough to believe in broomstick-riding and wand waving magic.

And by the way, it's not an issue of turning someone into a frog. We all know that is nonsense.

Just so. But the things decribed as "witchcraft" in the Bible most certainly are not nonsense. Further reinforcement that we're talking about two separate things.

Friend, it is important to understand that for every book that has been written or ever will be, and for every movie that has been produced, or will be, there is a worldview behind each one.

And the "worldview" behind HP is about a world that doesn't exist. It's fantasy.

And the devil knows that he has to entice you with those things that are appealing to your thirst for pleasure [/quote[ When it gets to the point where he can entice us into doing the impossible then I'll be keen to know how he's done it. You give the boy a lot more credit than I do.

In short, you are treading on dangerous ground,

Balderdash.

 

[Jipsah]

At this point I feel that I've said what God willed for me to say.

Demonstrating the unreliability of feelings.

I'm no prophet

Obviously not.

 

[Jipsah]

It's an attitude like this one that does not reflect a teachable spirit, or promote a discussion that is worthy of engaging.

Yeah, I reckon that believing that evil spiritis like to congregate in board games should be included in the creeds.

 

[Jipsah]

To those who may be interested in reading something about the hidden dangers of HP, you can go here

Do they also reveal the horrors of Pokemon? Especially Squirtle?

 

[Jipsah]

Moral relativism? Is it better to lie and probably save a person's life or not life and probably have a person killed?

"Knock, knock."

"Who's there?"

"The Gestapo. You hiding any Jews?"

"Yeah, got a bunch up in the attic. I didn't want you to get 'em but I can't tell a lie to save them because that'd just be wrong. No situational ethics for me, no sir. Wrong is wrong. Don't wail so, Frau Lieberman. You wouldn't have wanted me to commit a sin, would you?"

 

[Jipsah]

Expose yourself to such things for a period of time, and eventually your decisions will reflect the tenets of the world views that have been subconsciously inculcated.

That's why I keep trying to do "petrificous totalous" on people who cut me off in traffic, but doggone it all it just doesn't seem to work.

 

[Loukuss]

You said:

You are obviously quite uneducated in this field. You really shouldnt talk about things you know little about.

I took uneducated and "know little about things" to essentially mean dumb.

I take it anyway you want. I already told you I didnt call you dumb. Its over.

In Post 50, which is the one I responded to, you gave one verse:
Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

This is vague, and I wouldn't necessarily conclude it refers to us battling demons on this planet in the sense you are thinking of. It could be referring to a battle of ideas.

Have you ever consulted other christian opinions on this verse? Bible studies or commentaries? If so, please provide some.
Spirituall wickedness means ideas? Are you kidding me?
Believe what you want. Arguing over this one verse isnt that important to me. Take what you will from it.

You STILL havent answered my question. You seem to be dodging it quite well.
Why does scripture talk about witchcraft, sorcery and necromancy? Why? If these things dont exist, WHY does God warn us about them?
Please find time to answer that for me.

The theory of evolution is obvious to me, but not to many christians. (I personally have no problem with God starting the big bang--seems a much more structured way to create a world anyway.)

Its obvious to you? So, God's Word isnt enough for you? You have to turn to a theory instead? I'll take God's Word over a secular scientist who's goal was to prove God didnt exist.
A more structured way to create a world? Through a big bang? Please try and explain this.

Second, what's obvious is not always true.

Fair enough.
Prove me wrong. Show me otherwise that the devil would not try and get at our children at a young age to corrupt them.
I've given you my opinion, now you give me a reason to believe that he wouldnt do so.

The point is, saying something is true simply on the basis that it seems obvious to you, is fallacious.

Prove me wrong.

In the above, you merely speculate what YOU think is obvious and true, but it is by no means proof. Why should I adopt your hypothesis over another?

I dont expect you to adopt any of my beliefs. I could really care less.

You gave no evidence to any of your speculations
therefore, I don't take it as a serious argument. You say you know logic, then you must provide more than an opinion to convince me demons can possess you through a piece of cardboard, and not a candy bar.

The bible tells us not to mess around with witchcraft and sorcery. A ouiji board's purpose is to talk with spirits that are not of this world anymore. Doing so would be going against what scripture warns us about. Am I speculating or listening to scripture?
No where did I say demons can possess you through ouiji boards. Again, putting words in my mouth.

I personally don't believe the devil interferes in the world we live in, unless allowed to by God.

Umm, ok. What's your point? The devil remains in our world because God allows him to, and he seeks to pull us down with him.

"The Lord said to Satan, 'Where have you come from?' Satan answered the Lord, 'From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.' "Job 1:7

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8

Because God's children are human beings - made of flesh and blood - Jesus also became flesh and blood by being born in human form. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the Devil, who had the power of death. Only in this way could he deliver those who have lived all their lives as slaves to the fear of dying. Heb 2:14-15

I believe he lives in hell. I don't blame the devil for our problems, I blame humans.

He is present here on earth. He may or may not also live in hell, but thats not really important.
The devil is to blame for tempting us. If we decide to give into temptation, then we are at fault.

This is probably the root of our differences. You believe demons and what not coincide with us here on earth and I do not.

How can you not believe demons coincide with us here on earth? Jesus casted many demons out of people in the bible. What about those ocassions? Is scripture not good enough for you?

Therefore, there is no point continuing this because we accept different axioms.

There is no point duscussing with you since you do not take God's Word at face value. You seek to create your own scripture, with only the stuff you want to believe in.

Lucas

 

[Mind_Over_Matter]

You are obviously quite uneducated in this field. You really shouldnt talk about things you know little about.

Regardless of the intentions of this comment, its not appropriate to say some one. Especially if it's merely becuase they disagree with you. And for the record, I believe any reasonable person would agree that this comment is calling the person stupid on the subject being argued.

You STILL havent answered my question. You seem to be dodging it quite well.
Why does scripture talk about witchcraft, sorcery and necromancy? Why? If these things dont exist, WHY does God warn us about them?
Please find time to answer that for me.

When we mention sorcery, necromancy, etc we mention it in the sense that it is being used in the Harry Potter books. Using brooms to fly, casting spells with wands, etc. The bible does not refer to these kinds of things. The bible refers to more dark ritual behavior, essentially worshipping the devil. The reason for the bible's message is don't get caught up in making deals with the devil as the devil only offers empty promises.

Assuming the bible specifically says, don't pratice witchcraft (in the same sense it is used in Harry Potter), the Harry Potter books don't encourage such nonsense in any way. Its a fictional book, not a documentary.

Prove me wrong.

Actually no member needs to do this. If you make a point that you want people to accept, the burden of proof is on you to prove the point. Not introduce a point and claim its true until it is disproven. This is a logical fallacy known as appealing to ignorance.

From what I have read so far I don't beleive any side has proven their point without doubt, but Harry Potter being harmless is currently supported better in my opinion.

 

[Tonks]

And you will never get them to agree with you.

Yup. This narrow-minded obsession (based on the monthly cycle this single topic comes up) is a total and utter waste of a Christian's time. It is an issue of good parenting, nothing more.

Avada Kedavra on this topic....

 

[DarkCloud]

Have you ever consulted other christian opinions on this verse? Bible studies or commentaries? If so, please provide some.
Spirituall wickedness means ideas? Are you kidding me?

"spiritual wickedness in high places" doesn't imply demons. It could mean that certain social institutions practice a spiritually wicked--blasphemous/anti-christ-- philosophy. For example, the US state has law that abortion is not wrong. One might call this spiritual wickedness in high places.

You STILL havent answered my question. You seem to be dodging it quite well.
Why does scripture talk about witchcraft, sorcery and necromancy? Why? If these things dont exist, WHY does God warn us about them?
Please find time to answer that for me.

I read a recent news article that "goths" are more likely to self mutilate themselves or commit suicide than other groups. Maybe he warned us that if we practice these things long enough we might actually believe them and commit harm to ourselves or others. In any case, this still doesn't correlate with Harry Potter because Harry Potter doesn't teach witchcraft.

Its obvious to you? So, God's Word isnt enough for you? You have to turn to a theory instead? I'll take God's Word over a secular scientist who's goal was to prove God didnt exist.
A more structured way to create a world? Through a big bang? Please try and explain this.

I don't follow the Bible literally. So I can view the genesis creation story metaphorically and not literally. There are many Christians (some of which are scientists) that have no problem with evolution and science.

Creating billions of species by hand would be a chore. By implementing the evolutionary system, God specified a few rules on how things work (i.e., evolutionary laws), and then the system evolves the species automatically from some basic building blocks and energy. To me, and from an engineering viewpoint, this method is much more elegant than a bruteforce approach / pull the bunny out of a hat trick.

The big bang is similar. Start with some initial energy, define the rules of the universe, and then let the simulation run so to speak.

Prove me wrong. Show me otherwise that the devil would not try and get at our children at a young age to corrupt them.
I've given you my opinion, now you give me a reason to believe that he wouldnt do so.

This is the fallacy ad ignorantiam (from ignorance) which is the mistake that is committed when it is argued that a proposition is true simply on the basis that is has not been proved false.

My reasons were already given, namely, I don't believe demons are running around earth corrupting and possessing people. You obviously do, so we can come to no agreement.

Prove me wrong.

See above.

The bible tells us not to mess around with witchcraft and sorcery. A ouiji board's purpose is to talk with spirits that are not of this world anymore. Doing so would be going against what scripture warns us about. Am I speculating or listening to scripture?
No where did I say demons can possess you through ouiji boards. Again, putting words in my mouth.

My point has been that what are the specific properties of the ouiji board that make it a gateway to spirits? Could one not try to speak with demos via just prayer? Or could not a candy bar also be used as a magic wand to try and summon demons?

How can you not believe demons coincide with us here on earth? Jesus casted many demons out of people in the bible. What about those ocassions? Is scripture not good enough for you?

It turns out that what many thought were demons in old times, were probably really just mental illnesses like schizophrenia. So maybe the "casting out" of demons was really just curing the illness like Jesus cured other illnesses.

There is no point duscussing with you since you do not take God's Word at face value. You seek to create your own scripture, with only the stuff you want to believe in.

This is true. I do not read all of the Bible literally, where it conflicts with obvious everyday observations, and I instead look at the deeper message. The Catholic church, for instance, is a little more open minded:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

 

[Eruliel]

Regardless of the intentions of this comment, its not appropriate to say some one. Especially if it's merely becuase they disagree with you. And for the record, I believe any reasonable person would agree that this comment is calling the person stupid on the subject being argued.


When we mention sorcery, necromancy, etc we mention it in the sense that it is being used in the Harry Potter books. Using brooms to fly, casting spells with wands, etc. The bible does not refer to these kinds of things. The bible refers to more dark ritual behavior, essentially worshipping the devil. The reason for the bible's message is don't get caught up in making deals with the devil as the devil only offers empty promises.

Assuming the bible specifically says, don't pratice witchcraft (in the same sense it is used in Harry Potter), the Harry Potter books don't encourage such nonsense in any way. Its a fictional book, not a documentary.


Actually no member needs to do this. If you make a point that you want people to accept, the burden of proof is on you to prove the point. Not introduce a point and claim its true until it is disproven. This is a logical fallacy known as appealing to ignorance.

From what I have read so far I don't beleive any side has proven their point without doubt, but Harry Potter being harmless is currently supported better in my opinion.

You're the OP of this thread, and in the original post you stated that "Harry Potter leads to the occult" yet in this post you're saying that it doesn't encourage such nonsense, and that the Bible doesn't condemn Harry's brand of magic

This might be the result of spending most of my day on the computer and thus my brains are fried, but I'm starting to wonder if you started this thread just to see what people would say and to see which side would do a better job of defending itself.

What was your motive for starting this thread?
Slainte!
Eruliel who is now getting off because her shoes are dried sufficiently to take her dogs for a walk, and because she's getting a headache.

 

[imind]

In the books Harry Potter is constantly using anger to fuel his actions.

care to provide examples?

 

[BlackLamb]

You're the OP of this thread, and in the original post you stated that "Harry Potter leads to the occult" yet in this post you're saying that it doesn't encourage such nonsense, and that the Bible doesn't condemn Harry's brand of magic

This might be the result of spending most of my day on the computer and thus my brains are fried, but I'm starting to wonder if you started this thread just to see what people would say and to see which side would do a better job of defending itself.

What was your motive for starting this thread?

If the orignial poster doesn't mind me speaking for him, I'd have to say he was trying to prove how ridiculous the anti-HP arguement can sound. Hence, the "It's perfectly acceptable to read Tolkein, 'cause he's a Christian!" and that HP will lead to other "evil" practices like D&D.

 

[Eruliel]

If the orignial poster doesn't mind me speaking for him, I'd have to say he was trying to prove how ridiculous the anti-HP arguement can sound. Hence, the "It's perfectly acceptable to read Tolkein, 'cause he's a Christian!" and that HP will lead to other "evil" practices like D&D.

I think I agree. If that's the case though point proved. Lets move on.
Slainte!
Eruliel

 

[Mind_Over_Matter]

You're the OP of this thread, and in the original post you stated that "Harry Potter leads to the occult" yet in this post you're saying that it doesn't encourage such nonsense, and that the Bible doesn't condemn Harry's brand of magic

Kodos to you for noticing that. My original goal was to have a civilized debate on the topic. Unfortionately a few members have used their "self-righteousness" to defend the idea improperly (created a logical fallacy, then complained when their fallacy was pointed out, called people uneducated in an area when their idea was defended at least as well as their, ask obscure questions that don't prove their point, [perhaps they could further explain the question to justify the point])

care to provide examples?

I actually have read the Harry Potter books, and since you asked I'll defend that statement I made.

I claim that Harry Potter actions are often fueled off of anger due to many actions that he has done through out the books. I'm not argueing that Harry is evil or anything like that, just that he is a character that has weakness.
1. He wished to kill his god-father prior taking the time to properly get the correct facts.
2. He allowed himself to get into petty fights with Malfoy.
3. He blaimed Snape for mishappenings, which prior to "the half blood prince" were unjustified.
4. His motive for wanting to destroy Voltemont is more in the name of revenge then it is to save his world.

I have more points, but you would probalby consider them a bit of a stretch in comparison to these points (which you may or may not accept). My general view is that Harry Potter is a character that wants to do good, but is capable of going over the edge. All in all I don't find his personality believable to begin with, but hey its a fictional book and I enjoy the story .

Now back to Harry Potter being inappropriate to read. So far I have not seen a reasonable arguement against Harry Potter. A positive aspect of it that most people beleive is it promotes reading.

The claimed negative aspects, is that it promotes sorcery, witchcraft, etc. Arguments that most people including myself, don't see how it could because the claim in inproperly justified. Sounds like the Puritans burning 'witches' at the stake to me. (Back in those days they probalby were like, a women could read? Must be a witch...)

 

[Loukuss]

Regardless of the intentions of this comment, its not appropriate to say some one. Especially if it's merely becuase they disagree with you.

I can conceed and admit that I should not have said that he was obviously uneducated on the subject.
Apologies, DarkCloud.

And for the record, I believe any reasonable person would agree that this comment is calling the person stupid on the subject being argued.

I disagree.

When we mention sorcery, necromancy, etc we mention it in the sense that it is being used in the Harry Potter books. Using brooms to fly, casting spells with wands, etc. The bible does not refer to these kinds of things.

Actually, if you go back and read our debate, Harry Potter has had little to do with this part. DarkCloud has, to my knowledge, denied that sorcery, necromancy, casting spells, etc, exists.
The bible refers to these things.

Deut 18:10-11- Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead

The bible refers to more dark ritual behavior, essentially worshipping the devil.

Verses?

The reason for the bible's message is don't get caught up in making deals with the devil as the devil only offers empty promises.[/quote]

Empty? Was the promise to Eve in the garden empty? I believe it wasnt.
What's your definition of empty?
I think the message that the bible is trying to get across is that God doesnt want us following the devil because he will corrupt our ways, thoughts and beliefs. Agreed?

Assuming the bible specifically says, don't pratice witchcraft

We dont have to assume. For those of us that have read the bible many times, there is no assuming.

1 Samuel 15:23- For rebellion is like the sin of divination [witchcraft] and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.

Galatians 5:19-21 -The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissentions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit The Kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8- But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

the Harry Potter books don't encourage such nonsense in any way. Its a fictional book, not a documentary.

The book's hero is a boy who uses magic to his benefit. How is that not encouraging?
I realize its fictional, but fiction can also lead us into reality at some point. Especially for those easily lead astray.

Actually no member needs to do this. If you make a point that you want people to accept, the burden of proof is on you to prove the point.

I could care less if people accept my opinion or not. He thought that my opinion was wrong, so I asked him to prove me wrong. To further the debate, he would need to do so.

Not introduce a point and claim its true until it is disproven. This is a logical fallacy known as appealing to ignorance.

I claimed an opinion. I think that the devil would go after our children at a young age in order to corrupt them at their impressionable age. I never once said that it was true beyond a shadow of a doubt. DarkCloud doesnt see it that way. I asked him to prove me wrong. If he doesnt see it that way, he must have proof for why he doesnt. There's not logical fallacy. Gimme a break.

 

[Loukuss]

"spiritual wickedness in high places" doesn't imply demons. It could mean that certain social institutions practice a spiritually wicked--blasphemous/anti-christ-- philosophy.

You start by stating that it does NOT imply demons. By saying this, it would seem that you know what it implies. However, you follow this up by saying 'it could mean'. So you dont know or you do?
I'm not convinced that "spiritual wickedness in high places" refers to demons, but I'm not willing to say that for sure. What makes you so sure? Proof?

I read a recent news article that "goths" are more likely to self mutilate themselves or commit suicide than other groups. Maybe he warned us that if we practice these things long enough we might actually believe them and commit harm to ourselves or others. In any case, this still doesn't correlate with Harry Potter because Harry Potter doesn't teach witchcraft.

You ignored my question once again. Put Harry Potter aside for the moment, and answer my question.

This time I will provide scripture.

1 Samuel 15:23- For rebellion is like the sin of divination [witchcraft] and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.

Galatians 5:19-21 -The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissentions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit The Kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8- But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

YOU claimed that witchcraft, sorcery, etc, doesnt exist. Why are we warned about it? PLEASE ANSWER.

I don't follow the Bible literally. So I can view the genesis creation story metaphorically and not literally.[/quote

OK. Do you view everything in the bible metaphorically? If not, why?

There are many Christians (some of which are scientists) that have no problem with evolution and science.

That is a logical fallacy, appeal to authority. Just because some scientists believe in evolution, that doesnt make it is correct.

Creating billions of species by hand would be a chore.

Chore for us, but for God? I imagine God delighted in creating every species, including ourselves. Have you ever tried to invent something, or create art or a piece of music? Its quite the experience and very fun.

To me, and from an engineering viewpoint, this method is much more elegant than a bruteforce approach / pull the bunny out of a hat trick.

What's brute force about God creating everything liek Genesis tells us?

This is the fallacy ad ignorantiam (from ignorance) which is the mistake that is committed when it is argued that a proposition is true simply on the basis that is has not been proved false.

I already addressed this contention with the OPer.
I know what a logical fallacy is. You obviously dont.

My reasons were already given, namely, I don't believe demons are running around earth corrupting and possessing people. You obviously do, so we can come to no agreement.

There is usually no agreement between a literalist and a makeitupasIgo believer.

My point has been that what are the specific properties of the ouiji board that make it a gateway to spirits?

That's not a point, that's a question.

Could one not try to speak with demos via just prayer?

Well, this seems to be a way that some Satanists use.

Or could not a candy bar also be used as a magic wand to try and summon demons?

Try it and come back to me with your results.

I dont think that there is any specific physical property that makes a ouiji board dangerous. Its the act of trying to conjure of spirits that si dangerous. That act is prohibited by God many times throughout the bible.
You should try reading what the bible has to say.

It turns out that what many thought were demons in old times, were probably really just mental illnesses like schizophrenia.

Who constitutes the 'many'?
Who's to say schizophrenia isnt a demon possession? Can you make a point either way?

So maybe the "casting out" of demons was really just curing the illness like Jesus cured other illnesses.

The bible tells us demons were cast out. When Jesus met a man with many demons, the demons knew who Jesus was and asked Him to send them off into a group of pigs. According to your views, illnesses can talk. Is that it?
Demons have existed and continue to exist in our world. If you wont take God's word for it, I'm pretty sure you're unwilling to listen to anyone's view.

This is true. I do not read all of the Bible literally, where it conflicts with obvious everyday observations, and I instead look at the deeper message.

You only read the bible literally where it suits your own preconceived beliefs.

 

[kaisersoce25]

r u kiddin me, read between the lines! do u think god is so weak he will let the world fall to harry potter occult stories that kids read?.....please, it is fodder for the young mind, another author trying to get rich!, nowhere do the harry potter books condone satanism, and black arts are juvenile!, just a reason to get lost in antichristianity, point being...it is just a reach out to god to believers that don't know who god is yet, the lord is behind ALL of it, ur faith will tell u that, relax! besides
those movies are kewl 2! it is a blockbuster in america! *** i remember jurassic park, still looking for gods explanation of dino's will never find it, perhaps the catholics know something!, lol!

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