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thats fine sir. You are convicted by it. That is ok. I recommend that you don't watch it, and it's ok to tell others that you yourself do not want to watch it and for the reasons you mention, which are all good reasons. We however are not convicted by it. I used to be but then I realized the same guys that condemned harry potter were also condemning the passion of the christ because of violence and some questionable theology. Then I just sort of realized, that if we explain that it's not real. Then all the stuff you mention sort of takes care of itself. I look at it like putting a christmas tree up, yes jeremiah forbids putting up a tree and decorating it (Jeremiah 10:3-4), but that is because they were doing it out of idolatry. But one can do it and not be worshiping idols, in fact one can put up a christmas tree and be led to Christ by it. They can see the nativity and the crosses on it, and the christmas carols and have a great experience with Christ. When I was in high school it was christmas time, the tree, the whole christmas tradition that made me rededicate my life to God. But the tree was instituted from pagan tradition, so how Can God use that? They were saying the exact same thing in rome in the time of the apostles. There were meat dedicated to the cults and pagans. And some christians were eating of that meat. There were other christians doing holidays that were not necessarily christian as well. And you know what? Paul doesn't condemn He actually exhibits a whole bunch of grace, probably way more that I myself would have exhibited. I am truly a legalist at heart. And that verse really blesses and challenges me that Christ can and does use imperfect things every day. Read romans 14, the whole chapter sometime when you get a chance, here is a snippet...
"Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."
Romans 14:3-5
I believe there are several reasons why people today cannot see Harry Potter or magic in movies as being pure evil (Note: Please do not take what I say personally; I am only telling you what I personally believe; I am not seeking to judge any one person's salvation here, but I am merely relaying what I believe God's Word says on this matter. If you disagree, let's agree to disagree in love and respect).
#1. Movies, video games have become an idol to today's society. They are filled with taking the Lord's name in vain, murder, sexual immorality, witchcraft, lying, theft, hate, idolatry, drunkenness, etc.; 1 Corinthians 15:33 says, "Do not ye be deceived; for evil speeches destroy good conduct. [Do not ye be deceived; forsooth evil speeches corrupt, or destroy, good conduct, or virtues.]" (WYC) (Wycliffe Translation). The King James says "evil communications" instead of "evil speeches." If a person knows anything about reaping and sowing, they should know this. If one listens to junk and or puts junk in their mind, then junk is going to come back out in some way.
#2. They are not fully aware of the seriousness of God's condemnation against sorcery in the Old Testament (2 Chronicles 33:6), and that God had told the Israelites to kill sorcerers. God says whoever does such things is abomination to the LORD (See: Deuteronomy 18:10-12). They are not aware that sorcery is still condemned in the New Testament (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8) (Revelation 22:15). Real people today practice witchcraft and know that these things can lead people into the occult and or witchcraft.
#3. Obedience to Jesus and and or to God's commands is not legalism without God's grace, but it is loyalty to Jesus, it is loving Jesus, and it is a part of eternal life. Jesus said, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46). Jesus said, "My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." (Luke 8:21). Jesus said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Jesus agreed with the lawyer to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). Jesus said if you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love (John 15:10). If you believe things have changed after the cross, this is simply not so. The apostle John taught that by "walking in the light" it relates to the blood of Jesus Christ cleansing us from all sin (1 John 1:7). "Walking in the light" is "loving your brother" (See: 1 John 2:9-11) (Also see: 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15). Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Some people think today that any obedience to Jesus of any kind as a part of God's plan of salvation is Legalism. Then by all means, they should live in debauchery and live like the most evil criminal they can think of trust in God's grace and see where that gets them come judgment day. I guarantee you, such an individual will not make it into God's kingdom (See: Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42).
#4. They are not aware that there mind sins can condemn like in Matthew 5:28-30. For Jesus says a person can be cast into hellfire for looking upon a woman in lust. He says this is committing adultery in the heart and it condemns a person. Jesus relates this to the physical act of adultery. It's a mental sin based on the physical sin (of which both can condemn a person). So again, fantasizing about sorcery can condemn just as much as the physical act of sorcery. Sure, physical sorcery is far worse and it opens a person up to demonic activity on a much greater scale, but fantasizing about sorcery also has its own demonic influence, too. Why? Because it is an abomination in the sight of the LORD (Deuteronomy 18:10-12).
#5. They think that just because certain forms of entertainment has helped them or their family in some way, it must be good. The devil is not dumb. If he can get people to follow a helpful way or seemingly beneficial way to solve their problems, he will give them what they want as an appearance of something good that is not really good. It is a false way of good that is also filled with corruption and evil.
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).
#6. We are told to love not the world and neither things in the world. (1 John 2:15-17). For if any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in them. Why would one want to straddle the line on this passage in defense of a hollow worldly pleasure that offends God?
#7. In Matthew 16:24, Jesus says for us to pick up our cross, and to deny ourselves and come follow Him. It does not sound like a person is doing that if they are still holding on to the idols that this world worships and loves. Remember what Jesus said about the lukewarm church? He spewed them out of His mouth.
Conclusion for me:
"Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way." (Psalms 119:104).
I agree.. But, my point was how someone will weasel in the political crap in the US, about Trump.. in any thread... no matter how far off topic.It's a game my friend, the whole world is a stage, Trump is one of them, Obama is one of them, Bush is one of them, and so on and so forth with many other, everyone is playing their role... You are either with this group or with that group, but all groups are lead by the same people that orchestrates the whole show. They want you to play the game, to get involved.
Movies, music, politics, sports and so on and so forth have one final goal, to keep you entertained so that you keep playing the game, to keep you asleep.
Or it's a novel series promoting the supernatural, like God being born from a women, is sentenced to death and being resurrected.
You see once people acknowledge there actually is a supernatural, the door is opened for them to accept Christ as ruler of the natural things here on Earth as well as those in Heaven. Or have you forgotten that God also used magic to show His supremacy over the fallen fake gods here on Earth. Exodus 7:10-12
No. The only reason why no one sees HP as harmful is because their knowledge isn't deluded by fundamentalistic religious views. I have to be honest, this over reaction to Harry Potter and just fantasy is nonsense.
Take in note, your posts is going to be a resource for a seeker, struggling christian, or a non-believer trying to refute christianity. You are likely going to be cited as a negative example of Christianity. Your opinions are going to detract more people away from Christ than the fantasy fiction novels that you accuse.
Emsmom... Nobody is "going to hell" for any one action. We all start this life... "Going to Hell" So, nothing changes that destination. Nothing takes us there faster or slower... All those times you heard "if you do that you'll go straight to hell" you could have answered.. "well, I'm already on that bus anyway".I remember as a kid a family in our church gathered up all their "bad" belongings: books, television, transformer toys (why those are bad, I have no idea) and set a nice bonfire in the front yard. I also remember my mom telling me she did not have a television-or a Christmas tree- until she was married because it was considered "sinful" in her sect (Church of Christ-the church where women have to wear dresses and can't cut their hair--not to be confused with the United Church of Christ). And my husband did not see a movie until he was 15 because his church forbade it.
I guess my question is: who gets to decide? Bible Highlighter, do you think a person will go to hell if s/he has a Christmas tree? Or if women wear pants? Because there are churches who surely believe that. Do you think people who enjoy Harry Potter will go to hell or be punished in some way?
Cis.jd, consider the fact that Satan is the greatest deceiver of the universe and all time. And, what you just posted proves it.This thread has increased my suspicions on how various denominations have doctrines that glorify satan more, always seeing him with so much power and doing so much work, while in the mean time giving christians such a ridiculous image to those outside.
Being unable to distinguish a fantasy entertainment genre all because of being unable to tell a plot device from a message just shows that they can only think through a fundamental scope.
If the Bible has turned you to being that ridiculous, that media such as Harry Potter is satan now then there was never a Holy Spirit reading with you. You are just on the same level of irrationalism as the Salem witch trail hunters.
Thank you timothyu, for, yet again, going off topic into something that you seem to be fixated on...Like the politics of man. Good luck on subduing that over the next year,.
Anyway, I just wanted to post that. If you desire I can post some commentary on romans 14 to show that it is a very liberating passage to most christians: so if you don't mind I would like to debate romans 14. I believe it talks about pagan things that are grey area's so you must prove that the people involved in both christmas and in watching of harry potter are actually DOING PAGANISM. See the passage in romans 14 is about not judging others on holidays (which is big among 7th day adventists, and actually yourself with christmas), and also not judging people who are doing questionable things regarding idolatry but not ACTUALLY doing idolatry. See it was the Jews the created arbitrary rules and extra biblical rules to make legalistic requirements of christians and it was the Jews that were the ONLY PEOPLE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT JESUS YELLED AT. Think about that. I am not alone in my interpretation of romans 14, here are two commentaries on the chapter:We are not talking about eating and drinking certain things.
here is 2nd half of guziks commentary as well as link to both above commentaries that are free online:We are not talking about eating and drinking certain things. Neither are we referring to the Sabbaths, either. There is nothing in context in Romans 14 about how you can fill your mind with sinful things that God condemns with hell fire and condemnation. Jesus makes it clear that such a thing is forbidden (Matthew 5:28-30).
As for Christmas: That is a whole nother can of worms.
I created a CF thread on that here as to why that day is unbiblical.
Why I Think Christmas is Not Biblical (Please read OP before posting).
here is 2nd half of guziks commentary as well as link to both above commentaries that are free online:
a. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? Probably, the use of both judge and show contempt is meant to have application to both the “strict” and the “free” individuals. In either case, the attitude is wrong because we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
i. The strict Christian found it easy to judge his brother, writing him off as an unspiritual meat-eater-compromiser. The free Christian found it easy to show contempt against his brother, regarding him as a uptight-legalistic-goody-good. Essentially, Paul’s answer is “Stop worrying about your brother. You have enough to answer for before Jesus.”
ii. The judgment seat of Christ: “This is the bema seat, equivalent to the judge’s seat in the Olympic Games. After each game, the winners came before the judge’s seat to receive crowns for first, second, and third places. Likewise, the Christian’s works will be tested by fire, and he’ll be rewarded for those which remain... The judgment seat of Christ is only concerned with a Christian’s rewards and position in the kingdom, not with his salvation.” (Smith)
b. Every knee shall bow: The quotation from Isaiah 45:23 emphasizes the fact that all will have to appear before God in humility, and give account of himself before God. If this is the case, we should let God deal with our brother.
6. (Rom 14:13) Summary: don’t make it an issue of judging, but don’t use your liberty to stumble another brother.
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
a. Let us not judge one another: In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus helped us to understand what this means – it means judging others according to a standard that we would not want to have applied to ourself.
i. This does not take away the need and the responsibility for admonishment (Romans 15:14) or rebuke (2 Timothy 4:2). When we admonish or rebuke, we do it over clear Scriptural principles, not over doubtful things. We may offer advice to others about doubtful things, but should never judge them.
b. Not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way: We might stumble or cause our brother to fall in two ways. We can discourage or beat them down through our legalism against them, or we can do it by enticing them to sin through an unwise use of our liberty.
B. Don’t stumble each other over doubtful things.
1. (Rom 14:14-15) Destroying a brother makes a privilege wrong.
I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it isunclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
a. I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself: Paul knew that there was nothing intrinsically unclean about meat that was not kosher or sacrificed to an idol. Yet there was nothing that could justify the destruction of a Christian brother over food.
i. Trapp on I know and am convinced: “Many, on the contrary, are persuaded before they know; and such will not be persuaded to know.”
b. You are no longer walking in love: The issue now is not my personal liberty; it is walking in love towards one whom Jesus loves and died for.
c. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died: If Jesus was willing to give up His life for the sake of that brother, I can certainly give up my steak dinner.
2. (Rom 14:16-18) Pursuing the higher call of the Kingdom of God.
Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
a. Do not let your good be spoken of as evil: Our liberty in Jesus and freedom from the law is good, but not if we use it to destroy another brother in Christ. If we do that, then it could rightly be spoken of as evil.
b. The kingdom of God is not eating and drinking: If we place food and drink before righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, then we are hopelessly out of touch with God’s priorities and His heart.
c. Acceptable to God and approved by men: Serving God with a heart for His righteousness and peace and joy is the kind of service that is acceptable in His sight, and will be approved by men.
3. (Rom 14:19-21) Use your liberty to build each other up, not to tear each other down.
Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anythingby which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.
a. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food: If eating or drinking something will stumble another brother, then we are not free to eat or drink in that circumstance. Even if we have the personal liberty, we do not have the liberty to stumble, offend, or weaken a brother.
b. All things indeed are pure: Paul will concede the point that there is nothing impure in the food itself; but he likewise insists that there is nothing pure in causing a brother to stumble.
c. Nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak: However, we shouldn’t think that Paul would permit this kind of heart to cater to someone’s legalism. Paul speaks about the stumbling of a sincere heart, not catering to the whims of someone’s legalism.
i. For example, when some Christians from a Jewish background were offended that Gentile believers were not circumcised, Paul didn’t cater to their legalistic demands.
4. (Rom 14:22-23) The concluding principle of faith.
Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever isnot from faith is sin.
a. Do you have faith? If you have [strong] faith, and feel liberty to partake of certain things, praise God! But have your strong faith before God, not before a brother who will stumble.
b. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves: Not every Christian knows this happiness. There are things God may challenge us to give up, but we go on approving them in our life – thus we condemn ourselves. It may not be that the thing itself is clearly good or bad, but it is enough that God speaks to us about the matter.
i. Each of us must ask: “God what is there in my life hindering a closer walk with You? I want to know the happiness that comes from not condemning myself by what I approve in my life.” This takes faith, because we often cling to hindering things because we think they make us happy. Real happiness is found being closer and closer to Jesus, and by not being condemned by what we approve.
c. Whatever is not from faith is sin: Paul concludes with another principle by which we can judge “gray areas” – if we can’t do it in faith, then it is sin.
i. This is a wonderful check on our tendency to justify ourselves in the things we permit. If we are troubled by something, it likely isn’t of faithand likely is sin for us.
both of the above commentaries found free online here:
no
porn is totally different. Porn is actually doing the sin. romans 14 is about having an appearance of idolatry or paganism but not actually doing it. They were starving, the meat was good to eat, but it had been sacrificed to idols. The church had a problem with it, but Jesus is not concerned about the outward but the heart. Same in the old testament, David was hungry so he ate the bread out of the temple. Again this was against jewish law, david could not even go in the temple at all. But again Jesus is not about religion or rules but about the heart. Porn is a heart issue. it's actually lusting. So that is wrong, so the two don't compare. Again this is the issue with romans 14...."I believe it talks about pagan things that are grey area's so you must prove that the people involved in both christmas and in watching of harry potter are actually DOING PAGANISM.""Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:13).
Problem is that one can watch porn and make the same excuse. God hates porn just as he hates witchcraft. Why should Christians fill their mind with either one? Oh, and yes. Christians on this forum have defended porn as being okay with God. They no doubt will make the same defense involving Romans 14, too. But the context is food, drink, and Sabbaths (i.e. ceremonial laws of the Old Covenant).
What you said is not backed up by an ounce of Scripture. Please use Scripture to defend your viewpoint please. If not, then your opinion does not exist in regards to what God's Word says.
That would apply to just about everything in this world wouldn't it? So what is the answer? Go around pointing fingers? Putting oneself in a box so to speak and build a wall where everything outside yourself is the enemy? I think not as no one is sin free enough to isolate themselves from the world. There is an underlying truth from God in this world just as there are underlying truths in good vs evil movies etc.I am merely relaying what I believe God's Word says on this matter.
Cis.jd, consider the fact that Satan is the greatest deceiver of the universe and all time. And, what you just posted proves it.
Satan goes about this earth like a lion, searching for those he can devour.. He is the prince of this world and he is so subtle that people don't even know what he's doing.
We don't "glorify" Satan... we respect his deceptive ability and the wisdom of his plan...
Christians need to wake up to the reality of the fact that we do not battle flesh and blood.
I don't know about you, but I don't believe God is some petty insecure deity that gets offended for not being the main attention; that his own creation can't be entertained with out him being in the spot light.What is lacking in Harry Potter is God. He is not represented in any manner as it is a humanistic story devoid of God and spirituality. Even those practicing withcraft, the evil side, are not worshiping satan but themselves and their power. It is fairly representative of the world.
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